Article: Series Preview: Twins @ Royals, 4/8

[Riverbrian]

I have no problem with that either, but once the tying run got in scoring position, it was time to make the change.

 

I think the correct criticism was not having Burton warming up sooner. Burton wasn't warm yet when Cain doubled.

[ashbury]

A wild pitch and a single courtesy of Burton quells my impulse to second guess.

[ashbury]

So how many of us are thinking back to that first inning and Doumit's baserunning mistake?

 

If there was a crooked number up there for the Twins then it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But as things are, yeah.

[B Richard]

Great job by Florimon to block the bag

[Mr. Brooks]

Am I just an idiot or merely wondering why Correia came out for the 8th? Even Fien would have been a better option.

 

If you are going to yank a guy, between innings, that has a shutout going and is under 90 pitches, then he shouldn't even be on the roster. (Which is a legit thread of its own.)

[Halsey Hall]

What? Mauer gunned someone down...........

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Gardy blew this. There is no way you let Correia have a chance to be in line for a loss after pitching like that. He should have been pulled immediately after that double. We have a pretty good bullpen, so not using it was short-sighted too. Twins could have scored more runs of course, but certainly a huge mistake by our manager. Maybe it didn't matter with how Burton did, yet it was costly nonetheless.

[LaBombo]

A shut out thru 7 innings... No problems and under 90 pitches... I let Correia go in the 8th.

 

And yet there was the ticking sound. I heard it. From 3 states away.

 

The hook is one of the hardest calls to make, and one of the easiest to rip. Sending Correia out was just a little bit more inevitable than his reunion with math.

[Guest USAFChief]

I agree that Gardy can and should be criticized for not having the bullpen ready when the 8th inning started. I can understand sending Corriea out for the 8th, I can't understand not having at least one reliever ready to go, probably one each LH and RH.

[Mr. Brooks]

From -, Ryan had a winning record in 16 of 22 seasons. If wins were completely independent of the starting pitcher, shouldn't he be more like .500 in winning seasons? Shouldn't most of the pitchers in the hall of fame have as many losing seasons as winning seasons? "Wins are a team stat" is just another stathead meme with a grain of truth at the center, but like most such memes, don't hold up under scrutiny. How the starting pitcher performs is perhaps the single most important factor in who wins a MLB game. Pitch well, and over time you'll win more than you lose.

 

I never said wins were "completely independent" of the pitcher.

If its literally your sole metric for arguing how good or bad a pitcher is (which is how the guy I originally responded to was using it), it is not going to be a very accurate representation.

[Riverbrian]

Guys we are going to be fine... I have Crow in my fantasy lineup... We are coming back for sure.

[Halsey Hall]

Fien in line for the win. Let's eat som Crow.

[mikeee]

Too bad Mike McDougal wasn't still the Royal's closer.

[Guest USAFChief]

I never said wins were "completely independent" of the pitcher.

If its literally your sole metric for arguing how good or bad a pitcher is (which is how the guy I originally responded to was using it), it is not going to be a very accurate representation.

Your quote: "wins are a team stat." If "team stat" does not equal "completely independent" then I misunderstood you. I'm also not sure the original poster said it was literally the sole metric for judging a pitcher, but whatever.

[B Richard]

Correia may have pitched well up until the 8th inning, but that doesn't change the fact that he is Kevin Correia. He threw seven shutout innings- great for him. Still, I want my guys with the best stuff out there on the mound in the late innings of a one-run game rather than a guy who is enormously mediocre at best.

[Halsey Hall]

Kaplouffe

[LaBombo]

Guys we are going to be fine... I have Crow in my fantasy lineup... We are coming back for sure.

 

I have the other guy Rotowire says to hold in case Holland spontaneously combusts. Hope that doesn't make it a wash.

 

Hey, at least nobody has jinxed them by uttering the words "Bruce Ch..." Whoa. That was close.

 

Nice walk by Parm.

[Mr. Brooks]

Your quote: "wins are a team stat." If "team stat" does not equal "completely independent" then I misunderstood you. I'm also not sure the original poster said it was literally the sole metric for judging a pitcher, but whatever.

 

I'm not sure I can think of a single team stat that would be "completely independent" of the players who are on the field during that game.

 

His W/L total was the ONLY metric the op used in his post.

[mikeee]

psst. Gardy... Don't send Parmalee again!

[Brock Beauchamp]

Am I just an idiot or merely wondering why Correia came out for the 8th? Even Fien would have been a better option.

 

If a guy has thrown seven shutout innings and is well under 100 pitches, you don't pull him out of the game. You just don't do it. He has shown the ability to dominate that lineup on that day, something even the best reliever might not be able to do should you replace the starter.

[Riverbrian]

Correia may have pitched well up until the 8th inning, but that doesn't change the fact that he is Kevin Correia. He threw seven shutout innings- great for him. Still, I want my guys with the best stuff out there on the mound in the late innings of a one-run game rather than a guy who is enormously mediocre at best.

 

Pitched well?

 

Correction... He pitched Great!!!

 

It was 5 hit shut out... WHIP under 1.00

 

After an off season of bashing... He earned some love.

[Mr. Brooks]

Were Ramirez and/or Carroll unavailable to pinch hit today?

[Guest USAFChief]

Were Ramirez and/or Carroll unavailable to pinch hit today?

When? For who?

[IdahoPilgrim]

I never said wins were "completely independent" of the pitcher.

If its literally your sole metric for arguing how good or bad a pitcher is (which is how the guy I originally respondedto was using it), it is not going to be a very accurate representation.

 

 

No, I wasn't. That's a mischaracterization of my point and my position, based on one post and that ignores the rest of argument laid out earlier. My whole point was about perhaps we can't use just statistical analysis to decide what is effective pitching and what isn't.

 

 

Why am I wasting my breath on this?

[ashbury]

I can't understand not having at least one reliever ready to go, probably one each LH and RH.

 

+1. This. Ding. Ding. Freaking. Ding. +2.

[B Richard]

Pitched well?

 

Correction... He pitched Great!!!

 

It was 5 hit shut out... WHIP under 1.00

 

After an off season of bashing... He earned some love.

 

Absolutely. I'm ecstatic to see him pitch like his has thus far. I just don't think that in the 8th inning of a one run game you can hand the ball to Correia going into the heart of the lineup. I'd rather cash out while I'm still winning and trust that my bullpen, who the Royals haven't seen 3x at the plate, can get the job done.

 

Maybe my point would have been better made if the bullpen was better, but there is certainly a discussion to be had. Either way, I'm still happy to see Correia exceed expectations and I still hate losing.

[Brock Beauchamp]

No, I wasn't. That's a mischaracterization of my point and my position. My whole point was about perhaps we can't use just statistical analysis to decide what is effective pitching and what isn't.

 

Why am I wasting my breath on this?

 

Which might be the case except that statistically, it's been pretty much determined that there is no such as thing as "pitching to the scoreboard", as many have tried to claim in an attempt to maintain the relevancy of the win statistic.

 

Any statistic that relies so heavily on players that don't receive any credit for the statistic is not a good statistic to use, particularly when there are dozens of other metrics that more closely correlate to performance.

[Mr. Brooks]

When? For who?

 

For the career .598 OPS'er that ended the game.

[ashbury]

Correia has to try and play with Gordon a little here.

 

Maybe Joe thought it would be bad baseball for a batter to swing with fewer than two strikes in this situation.

[Mr. Brooks]

No, I wasn't. That's a mischaracterization of my point and my position, based on one post and that ignores the rest of argument laid out earlier. My whole point was about perhaps we can't use just statistical analysis to decide what is effective pitching and what isn't.

 

 

Why am I wasting my breath on this?

 

So your counter argument is to use a stat that the pitcher has even less control over?

I'm sorry if I don't understand your argument.