2022 Vikings Off-Season Thread

[cHawk]

https://sportsnaut.com/kirk-cousins-no-interest-in-pay-cut-could-get-40m/amp/

So Cousins wants to play here but he won’t take a paycut when it would really help his team out.

What a leader!

[nicksaviking]

28 minutes ago, cHawk said:

https://sportsnaut.com/kirk-cousins-no-interest-in-pay-cut-could-get-40m/amp/

So Cousins wants to play here but he won’t take a paycut when it would really help his team out.

What a leader!

Yeah, I don't blame the players for trying to maximize their payday, but we've seen tons of other high priced QBs rework their deals to improve the team. But we knew this about him before he came here. He leveraged his situation in Washington to get the most bang for his buck too.

That's all fine, it's his prerogative and I won't fault him for it. But my prerogative is to have a QB who will put the team first; and not just with this payroll stuff, but with all aspects of the game. He's not a leader and I don't think you win a Super Bowl if your QB isn't one of the team leaders.

[cHawk]

48 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, I don't blame the players for trying to maximize their payday, but we've seen tons of other high priced QBs rework their deals to improve the team. But we knew this about him before he came here. He leveraged his situation in Washington to get the most bang for his buck too.

That's all fine, it's his prerogative and I won't fault him for it. But my prerogative is to have a QB who will put the team first; and not just with this payroll stuff, but with all aspects of the game. He's not a leader and I don't think you win a Super Bowl if your QB isn't one of the team leaders.

Interestingly enough, here’s a list of the last 20 SB winning QBs:

Stafford, 2022: $20M
Brady, 2021: $28M
Mahomes, 2020: $2M
Brady, 2019: $15M
Foles, 2018: $4M
Brady, 2017: $14M
P. Manning, 2016: $19M
Brady, 2015: $19M
Wilson, 2014: $1M
Flacco, 2013: $7M
E. Manning, 2012: $9M
Rodgers, 2011: 6.5M
Brees, 2010: $13M
Roethlisberger, 2009: $28M
E. Manning, 2008: $13M
P. Manning, 2007: $10M
Roethlisberger, 2006: $10M
Brady, 2005: $6M
Brady, 2004: $9M
Johnson, 2003: $5.5M

Only two QBs in the past 20 years have won a SB whilst making more than $25M. Two out of twenty.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, cHawk said:

https://sportsnaut.com/kirk-cousins-no-interest-in-pay-cut-could-get-40m/amp/

So Cousins wants to play here but he won’t take a paycut when it would really help his team out.

What a leader!

Why would he take a pay cut?

[Mike Sixel]

Rumor has it the Panthers have called about Cousins.....they have the 6th pick......If the Vikings deal Cousins, you almost have to deal Cook and maybe anyone else over 28 or so....(Smith and Thielen, for example).

[nicksaviking]

23 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Rumor has it the Panthers have called about Cousins.....they have the 6th pick......If the Vikings deal Cousins, you almost have to deal Cook and maybe anyone else over 28 or so....(Smith and Thielen, for example).

Yeah, take the QB out of the equation and none of those other three positions (RB, 2nd WR, SS) do much to change next year's outcome anyway. I'd guess the change in W/L record would be negligible without those three players.

Next year I want to see more of KJ Osborn and Smith-Marsette in any case.

[cHawk]

46 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Why would he take a pay cut?

His team has a lot of holes that need to be filled, maybe some of that money could go elsewhere?

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Rumor has it the Panthers have called about Cousins.....they have the 6th pick......If the Vikings deal Cousins, you almost have to deal Cook and maybe anyone else over 28 or so....(Smith and Thielen, for example).

No way they give us 6 for him, but I'll take their second rounder and a pick next year.

I am actively rooting for this team to move Cousins and Hunter this offseason.  Cook too, but I don't see that happening.

[nicksaviking]

48 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

No way they give us 6 for him, but I'll take their second rounder and a pick next year.

I am actively rooting for this team to move Cousins and Hunter this offseason.  Cook too, but I don't see that happening.

If I can move Cousins and Cook, I'd probably look to keep Hunter. 

But if the other team's offer is surprisingly large I'd probably change my mind.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, cHawk said:

His team has a lot of holes that need to be filled, maybe some of that money could go elsewhere?

That's not his problem. Would you take a pay cut to hire another person? 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

No way they give us 6 for him, but I'll take their second rounder and a pick next year.

I am actively rooting for this team to move Cousins and Hunter this offseason.  Cook too, but I don't see that happening.

I don't think they have a 2 or 3 this year.....

[cHawk]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

That's not his problem. Would you take a pay cut to hire another person? 

If I was a QB and wanted to win a SB, I would. Because winning a SB when your QB takes up $40M+ of your cap is nearly impossible. Take a look at the following statistics.

4 hours ago, cHawk said:

Stafford, 2022: $20M
Brady, 2021: $28M
Mahomes, 2020: $2M
Brady, 2019: $15M
Foles, 2018: $4M
Brady, 2017: $14M
P. Manning, 2016: $19M
Brady, 2015: $19M
Wilson, 2014: $1M
Flacco, 2013: $7M
E. Manning, 2012: $9M
Rodgers, 2011: 6.5M
Brees, 2010: $13M
Roethlisberger, 2009: $28M
E. Manning, 2008: $13M
P. Manning, 2007: $10M
Roethlisberger, 2006: $10M
Brady, 2005: $6M
Brady, 2004: $9M
Johnson, 2003: $5.5M

No QB taking up $40M+ of the cap has won a SB in the last 20 years.

[Vanimal46]

15 hours ago, cHawk said:

If I was a QB and wanted to win a SB, I would. Because winning a SB when your QB takes up $40M+ of your cap is nearly impossible. Take a look at the following statistics.

No QB taking up $40M+ of the cap has won a SB in the last 20 years.

Your point is still valid, but I’d look at percentage of salary cap vs the raw salary numbers. LA Rams are the first team in a long time to win a super bowl dedicating more than 15% of the cap to QB (Stafford $20 million and Goff’s $20 million dead cap hit). 

The cap is going to continue to skyrocket, so Kirk’s $45 million cap hit will be closer to his market rate than we’d like to admit. Kyler Murray is asking for $50-55 million in his extension talks. 

All that being said, I’m ready to move on from Kirk. Not solely for the cap savings, which will help rebuild the rest of the roster. Because I don’t think our roster is ready to compete for a Super Bowl. 

[Mike Sixel]

15 hours ago, cHawk said:

If I was a QB and wanted to win a SB, I would. Because winning a SB when your QB takes up $40M+ of your cap is nearly impossible. Take a look at the following statistics.

No QB taking up $40M+ of the cap has won a SB in the last 20 years.

I'd take the money. That's generations of money. Which of those QBs took a pay cut from their existing team? Hint. Maybe one, maybe. 

[Mike Sixel]

15 hours ago, cHawk said:

If I was a QB and wanted to win a SB, I would. Because winning a SB when your QB takes up $40M+ of your cap is nearly impossible. Take a look at the following statistics.

No QB taking up $40M+ of the cap has won a SB in the last 20 years.

To be clear, you'd take a twenty million dollar pay cut to maybe win a super bowl? Maybe? I doubt that very much. 

[cHawk]

53 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd take the money. That's generations of money. Which of those QBs took a pay cut from their existing team? Hint. Maybe one, maybe. 

If Cousins wants the money, that’s fine. I’m not criticizing him for that. However, I want to win a SB. I think most fans do as well. If he doesn’t want to win a SB, he can go make his money elsewhere.

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd take the money. That's generations of money. Which of those QBs took a pay cut from their existing team? Hint. Maybe one, maybe. 

No QB in history has taken a pay cut. Tom Brady accepted below market value contracts for a decade and received every cent. It’s been the same cap manipulations for years… converting salary to signing bonus, adding future void years, etc. Meanwhile the player gets the glory for being a “team player” while the team pays for him after he’s no longer there.

Tampa Bay is paying Brady the next 2 years after his retirement. New Orleans continues to pay Drew Brees when he retired 2 years ago. There’s not a single example of a player who’s guaranteed to make $10 million and say “You know what, I only need $5 million. Use the other $5 million for someone else.” 

[nicksaviking]

19 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

That's not his problem. Would you take a pay cut to hire another person? 

Yeah, there would be no pay cut, only another restructure. Which sounds like a bad idea to me.

And it sounds like Cousins may not be interested anyway. Which would still call into question his actual desire to win. Doing so is really common with the high priced players.

[gunnarthor]

If the Vikings could get the 6th pick for Cousins, they should absolutely do that and then see what they can get for Hunter. Stock up and rebuild. But I doubt that happens.

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

If the Vikings could get the 6th pick for Cousins, they should absolutely do that and then see what they can get for Hunter. Stock up and rebuild. But I doubt that happens.

Maybe Carolina gets cousins, the teams also swap 1st round picks and the Vikings get their 2023 1st rounder? It seems to me that draft picks tend to be overvalued EXCEPT for future draft picks. I suppose those in charge know if they muck it up, they won't be using those picks anyway.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Maybe Carolina gets cousins, the teams also swap 1st round picks and the Vikings get their 2023 1st rounder? It seems to me that draft picks tend to be overvalued EXCEPT for future draft picks. I suppose those in charge know if they muck it up, they won't be using those picks anyway.

I find this scenario far more likely - we get an incentive this year and the real payment is next year.

I'd make that deal for sure BTW.

So with Patterson in New York....do you take the Giants picks at 67 and 81 along with their 1st next year for Hunter?

[nicksaviking]

3 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I find this scenario far more likely - we get an incentive this year and the real payment is next year.

I'd make that deal for sure BTW.

So with Patterson in New York....do you take the Giants picks at 67 and 81 along with their 1st next year for Hunter?

While I have every confidence the Giants are going to be terrible in 2022 and will once again produce a top draft pick the following year, I don't know that I'd let them get away with getting Hunter while retaining their first three picks this year.

I might not be in touch with where Hunter's stock is right now though.

[TheLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

While I have every confidence the Giants are going to be terrible in 2022 and will once again produce a top draft pick the following year, I don't know that I'd let them get away with getting Hunter while retaining their first three picks this year.

I might not be in touch with where Hunter's stock is right now though.

His stock is super tough to pin down right now.  I could see them moving 7 for him, but sometimes that feels way out of whack.

[Mike Sixel]

36 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I find this scenario far more likely - we get an incentive this year and the real payment is next year.

I'd make that deal for sure BTW.

So with Patterson in New York....do you take the Giants picks at 67 and 81 along with their 1st next year for Hunter?

No chance. 

[TheLeviathan]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

No chance. 

So what would it take to move Hunter for people?

I think he's an elite talent, but injuries have cropped up twice now and I'm unsure about his future.  Similar trades, like Frank Clark or Khalil Mack have a wide variety of outcomes.

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

So what would it take to move Hunter for people?

I think he's an elite talent, but injuries have cropped up twice now and I'm unsure about his future.  Similar trades, like Frank Clark or Khalil Mack have a wide variety of outcomes.

I would move Cousins for a 2023 1st. I don’t buy #6 overall being in consideration for Carolina, but if they get that desperate it’s an instant accept. Having 2 1st rounders in 2023 sets us up well to make a move for one of Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Desmond Ridder, or another QB that breaks out next year. 

I would move Hunter for a 2022 1st… Worst case top 50 pick. EDGE is fairly deep this year and we should take advantage of that need if we trade Hunter. 

[TheLeviathan]

8 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I would move Cousins for a 2023 1st. I don’t buy #6 overall being in consideration for Carolina, but if they get that desperate it’s an instant accept. Having 2 1st rounders in 2023 sets us up well to make a move for one of Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Desmond Ridder, or another QB that breaks out next year. 

I would move Hunter for a 2022 1st… Worst case top 50 pick. EDGE is fairly deep this year and we should take advantage of that need if we trade Hunter. 

I thought Ridder was this year?  (He's a big favorite of mine late 1st/early 2nd)

You're spot-on that EDGE is deep this year.  Elite pass rushers are ideal, but you can get to a QB with a front that demands a lot of attention like Cincy had this year.  Or Tampa did last year.  The problem the Vikings have had is a complete lack of DT pass rush since Big Kev.  

Hell, DT has been one of the worst coached positions on this team for pretty much the entire Zimmer tenure.  Linval was a stud but they've had so much garbage scheming and usage.  It'd be nice to land a guy who can line up inside and collapse a pocket.  (Leal or Winfrey could be guys to watch in the draft)

[Vanimal46]

You’re correct I mixed up Ridder being this year. Spencer Rattler is who I was thinking of in that group of QBs next year. 

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

You’re correct I mixed up Ridder being this year. Spencer Rattler is who I was thinking of in that group of QBs next year. 

Got it... except Oklahoma benched him midseason, and his replacement (Caleb Williams) outplayed him by a wide margin. Rattler may not even be draftable.

[Vanimal46]

23 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Got it... except Oklahoma benched him midseason, and his replacement (Caleb Williams) outplayed him by a wide margin. Rattler may not even be draftable.

Certainly possible. He’ll need a bounce back year in South Carolina. The talent and measurables are there to be a high draft pick. 

I’m not a fan of the 2022 group of QBs and would rather take that gamble in 2023. This year I want to focus exclusively on defense in the early rounds. A top CB at 12 choosing one of Sauce Gardner, Stingley Jr. or McDuffie. And EDGE in the 2nd like Boye Mafe.