Making Moves (to the Bullpen)

[Cody Pirkl]

Not every pitching prospect is cut out for a starting role in the Major Leagues. That doesn’t mean they’re a failure, as oftentimes these former starters transition into a big role in shorter stints. The Twins have several arms who are candidates for such a transition in 2022.

The Twins need some bullpen help in 2022 in addition to significant rotation help. Unfortunately, there’s only so much money to go around. Transitioning some younger arms into bullpen pieces could benefit the players and team alike and get them into the majors that much quicker. The Twins have some great young arms who could be primed to make this switch.

Matt Canterino
Canterino was a 2nd round pick and has been a starting pitcher for much of his minor league career. His highest ERA in a single season was 1.80 as he’s dominated every stop of the minors to this point. He sports a devastating slider and a solid complementary changeup. His fastball took a big step forward during the pandemic forced break in minor league action. He can now run it up to the high 90s consistently. With such a deep pitch mix, why shouldn’t Canterino be a starting pitcher?

Canterino is already 24 years old and has only made it as high as A+ ball in his three years with the Twins. He’s thrown 48 total innings in his professional career thus far. This is partially due to the lost 2020 season, but Canterino also dealt with multiple forearm injuries which eventually ended his 2021 season. Headed into 2022, Canterino has a long way to go in developing as a starter. Staying the course not only would likely keep him out of the majors for another year or two at least, but more innings also make a recurrence of the recent arm troubles more likely. Canterino has the raw stuff to debut very soon and be an effective reliever. It’s an option the Twins could very well consider at this point.

Chris Vallimont
Recently added to the 40 man roster, Vallimont had too much raw talent for the Twins to risk letting him go. His 6.06 ERA across 91 innings in AA aren’t impressive, but his raw skills were. Vallimont struck out 31.1% of his hitters faced, but walked a crippling 14.6% while allowing a 1.48 HR/9. He has a decent mix of pitches featuring a low to mid 90s fastball and a decent slider, curve and change.

Pitchers like Vallimont move to the bullpen all the time. Jorge Alcala was the Twins' latest iteration. Moving into a short burst role actually helped iron out the walks and allowing his stuff to play up in 1-2 inning stints helped him work around the walks he was still issuing. Unlike Alcala however, Vallimont already has a steady pitch mix to immediately have a third option. The Twins protected him in the rule 5 draft because even with his walks and homer issues, Vallimont may have the floor to join a team’s bullpen and contribute in some fashion immediately. With his 40 man spot secured, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Twins make this move and fast track him to Minneapolis sometime in 2022.

Drew Strotman
Acquired with Joe Ryan from the Rays, Strotman also already has a 40 man spot. He also has already reached AAA, although he struggled mightily in St. Paul, posting a 7.33 ERA in 54 innings down the stretch after posting a 3.86 mark with the Rays affiliate in his 58 innings prior. It’s very possible he faded down the stretch as 2021 was his first full season coming off Tommy John. He has an impressive 60 grade fastball which he mostly pairs with the strong duo that is his cutter and slider. He also has impressive control.

The Twins may be tempted to see if Strotman can hold out his performance in a rotation role again in 2022. It’s possible however, especially if they’re trying to compete, that they acclimate him to the bullpen to start the season and quickly bring him up. His big fastball and command of his pitches give him a solid floor in the bullpen and he lacks a strong changeup which could have him bullpen bound eventually anyways. Strotman also was a reliever for much of his college career. It would be far from a failure given what we’ve already gotten from Joe Ryan if Drew Strotman simply turns out to be a reliable reliever.

Are there any other pitchers in the Twins system that are bullpen bound? Would you like to see any of these three stay the course? Let us know below!

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[Major League Ready]

I think the Twins and the league are going to have a lot of non-traditional pitchers.  The really top guys will continue to be managed in a relatively traditional role.  There will also be guys that pitch in 2-4 innings or even 5 on occasion and a few one inning guys.  a 13 pitcher staff might look like this ...

#1 - Traditional Starter

#2 - Traditional Starter

6-7 - Pitchers who pitch 2-5 innings per outing

RPs - 3-4 guys who pitch one inning at a time.

Canterino / Strotman / Vallimont and a number of our other prospects might get their start in a 2-5 inning role and hopefully grown into a traditional role.

[TopGunn#22]

Good point Major League.  I'm far too traditional in my thinking,  but this could very well be the way it's going.  Teams don't want to pay a SP half of what Max Scherzer makes while getting 1/3 of the production.  One constant in baseball is that there are always only a few "Max Scherzer's" around at any given time.   The Twins got Johann Santana going in the BP.  The Dodgers have bounced Urias back and forth (probably not anymore though) and have done the same with Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin etc...  I think fast-tracking guys like Canterino, Strotman and even Duran to the majors in a BP role like that is a GOOD idea.  After 2-years of seasoning with the big club if the results are good and the team and pitcher agree, maybe they look to build his innings up and transition him to a SP role.  The fact is, even though the NEED for SP'ing is acute for the Twins right now not ALL of their highly regarded prospects will pan out as SP's.  It's also why I'd move a couple of these minor league pitchers if I needed to seal a deal that would return a Montas or Sixto Sanchez or Pablo Lopez.  We really have an overabundance of these SP prospects.  We need to give a little to get a Montas or Lopez in return.  

[Karbo]

I agree the pen may be the place to start out some of our young pitchers. It has worked well as pointed out above for others, why not try it with a couple of our guys. Let them break in out of the pen. See what they got. Hopefully they can gain some confidence and take off from there. 

[USNMCPO]

What the heck, why not? It's not like we have seen any great plans work out the last few years. If these guys are 24-26 years old they aren't going to season any better in Wichita. If they show something then they can be kept and groomed for bigger things or traded for bigger things.

[DJL44]

46 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

I think the Twins and the league are going to have a lot of non-traditional pitchers.  The really top guys will continue to be managed in a relatively traditional role.  There will also be guys that pitch in 2-4 inning guys and a few one inning guys.  a 13 pitcher staff might look like this ...

#1 - Traditional Starter

#2 - Traditional Starter

7 - Pitchers who pitch 2-5 innings per outing

RPs - 4 guys who pitch one inning at a time.

Canterino / Strotman / Vallimont and a number of our other prospects might get their start in a 2-5 inning role and hopefully grown into a traditional role.

I have advocated for a different idea - go back to the 4 man rotation. When baseball changed to the 5 man rotation starting pitchers were throwing 250 innings a season over 40 starts. Now they're lucky if a starter pitches 160 innings over 33 starts. Workloads have dropped from 130 pitches per start to 90 pitches.

Starting pitchers are your best pitchers. You want to get more innings from them. We have seen the rise of the bullpen because generic relievers can do better their 1st time through a lineup than your 3rd starter can the 3rd time through that same lineup. To get more innings from your starting pitchers you either need to let them face the lineup a 3rd time more often or have them start more often. I would opt for the latter. Limit the starter to 2x through the lineup but pitch them every 4 games. This should give a team 180-200 quality innings from their starter. With the reduced workload they should be able to recover in time for the game 3 days later. It will require modifying their between-games training regimen but that should be manageable.

[DJL44]

Vallimont looks like bullpen or bust. He's going to need to be able to put the ball over the plate more consistently. 6 walks per 9 innings is way too high.

[jmlease1]

I don't think Canterino is going to go to the 'pen any time soon. Yes, the injuries are a concern, but he's also shown the ability to be successful as a starter, so I think the team is going to give him every opportunity to make it in that role before they try dropping him into the bullpen.

Vallimont and Strotman are different cases, I think. Strotman didn't have a lot of success in AAA for the team this year, is getting a little older, and is much closer to a break point. Vallimont simply may not have the command and control to ever be a starter, but there's no question he has the stuff. He was protected from the Rule 5 draft because there was a high likelihood that a team would take a flyer on him in the bullpen right now. While I expect Vallimont to get another shot at starting this season, he's definitely on a path where if he can't find the consistency soon he'll make the move.

Frankly, I have to wonder if Thorpe is a more likely candidate as well. He's struggling to break through, he's seen a dip in velocity that may make it harder for him to find that success as a starter, and maybe a change in role will help him out mentally and physically.

 

[PDX Twin]

It seems like Dobnak might also fit this mold. But he's also a cautionary tale: Remember that he was truly awful out of the bullpen but has pitched quite well at times as a starter. What may work for some guys might not for others.

[mikelink45]

For a few years we had discussions on Dobnak, Thorpe and Smeltzer.  Smeltzer has dropped out of the storyline and I think the other two will soon as well.  If the younger prospects are even close to what we are reading then these borderline pitchers need to get out of the way.  Dobnak has shown that he is not a RP and he is really marginal as a starter.  He will last longer because he has a contract.  But let's hope Balazovic, Duran, Winder, Sands...are better than this threesome. 

[Major League Ready]

7 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

For a few years we had discussions on Dobnak, Thorpe and Smeltzer.  Smeltzer has dropped out of the storyline and I think the other two will soon as well.  If the younger prospects are even close to what we are reading then these borderline pitchers need to get out of the way.  Dobnak has shown that he is not a RP and he is really marginal as a starter.  He will last longer because he has a contract.  But let's hope Balazovic, Duran, Winder, Sands...are better than this threesome. 

I would not give up on Dobnak just yet but I don't see the point of continuing the Thorpe experiment unless his velocity and command look good.  Maybe he can dial it up a notch out of the BP.  2022 is time to test the other guys you mention so we are not still trying to figure it out in 2023.  

[twinsfansd]

Thad Levine hinted at the possibility that there would be more pitchers going shorter stints as a possible scenario this season. I look for maybe all of these young guys that are on the fringe of being MLB ready to be worked short stints as either openers or as 3-4 inning pieces that are moved up and down between the Twins and the Saints. That gets them all some  experience and management a look at them in a major league environment, and a way to fill the Twins needs for more pitching, both in the rotation and the bullpen.

[Lonestar]

Griffin Jax

[4twinsJA]

I am all for a nontraditional approach. Would like to see plenty of young pitchers get an opportunity at MLB level next year.

[jrod23]

Hopes for Canterino are higher than the bullpen.  Who cares that he's 24.  Let him develop and by the time he's 26, let's let him roll.  Hopefully, he excels and it also would coincide with the Twins excelling.

[wabene]

Not so sure letting Cantering pitch out of the pen means he can't start later. The guy hasn't pitched and it will be a while before he gets built up. Might be a way to ease him in this year.

Thorpe has had his chance. Maybe they try him out of the pen but I don't see it happening. HIW (hope I'm wrong).

Dobnak is a starter or maybe long relief, but definitely not short relief, high leverage. Not too optimistic with him, but we'll see.

Normally I would say to move Jax to the pen, but this non-traditional approach could work with him. 2-3 innings.

With the injuries and lack of innings pitched by our top prospects, it would be great if they got them up, worked them in shorter stints and rotated them to the Saints and back. Rotating them based on workload and performance. This would not only avoid wasting their bullets in the minors, it would also make watching even a mediocre team way more fun than the marginal veteran types. 

[Whitey333]

Long boring season ahead for Twins.  Relying on a cupboard full of near ready MLB prospects for an already and depleted, barely AAA pitching staff seems like a long shot at best.  I think they need a decent veteran or two starting pitcher to begin the season otherwise we may be looking at another terrible year of baseball and 90-100 losses.

[Major League Ready]

21 minutes ago, wabene said:

Not so sure letting Cantering pitch out of the pen means he can't start later. The guy hasn't pitched and it will be a while before he gets built up. Might be a way to ease him in this year.

Thorpe has had his chance. Maybe they try him out of the pen but I don't see it happening. HIW (hope I'm wrong).

Dobnak is a starter or maybe long relief, but definitely not short relief, high leverage. Not too optimistic with him, but we'll see.

Normally I would say to move Jax to the pen, but this non-traditional approach could work with him. 2-3 innings.

With the injuries and lack of innings pitched by our top prospects, it would be great if they got them up, worked them in shorter stints and rotated them to the Saints and back. Rotating them based on workload and performance. This would not only avoid wasting their bullets in the minors, it would also make watching even a mediocre team way more fun than the marginal veteran types. 

It will be definitely be more interesting to watch prospects than mediocre veterans and a lot better than watching Shoemaker and Happ last year.  It will also be really exciting if some of these guys step up.  If that happens, we are going to be positioned well for the next several years.  

[wabene]

43 minutes ago, Whitey333 said:

Long boring season ahead for Twins.  Relying on a cupboard full of near ready MLB prospects for an already and depleted, barely AAA pitching staff seems like a long shot at best.  I think they need a decent veteran or two starting pitcher to begin the season otherwise we may be looking at another terrible year of baseball and 90-100 losses.

Good thing the off-season isn't over.

[Rosterman]

22 hours ago, twinsfansd said:

Thad Levine hinted at the possibility that there would be more pitchers going shorter stints as a possible scenario this season. I look for maybe all of these young guys that are on the fringe of being MLB ready to be worked short stints as either openers or as 3-4 inning pieces that are moved up and down between the Twins and the Saints. That gets them all some  experience and management a look at them in a major league environment, and a way to fill the Twins needs for more pitching, both in the rotation and the bullpen.

If you look at the minors last season, of course they were coming off an absent 2020, a lot of potential starters only pitched 3-4 innings in a game. One, to get them innings, but also season endurance. Did the minors double up on rotation arms for those extra bullpen innings? Even in the majors, how many wins did Ober NOT HAVE because he couldn't get out of the fifth. Would an opener have helped him? Is the opener really a thing?

 

The Twins have many failed starters who became good bullpen arms. Notably Nathan (with the Giants), Hawkins, Guardado, Perkins. Hendriks also is one. Zack Litell was a tremendous minor elague starter who has found a home in the pen. Nowadays it is all about if a guy can get thru a batting order once, twice, or maybe even three times. 

 

The flip-side is how many teams have bullpen arms that pitch multiple innings on consecutive days, or even multiple inning appearances of 3+  with a short outing also in a week.

 

I thiank back to the sixties with four starters pitching complete games, sometimes coming out of the pen. The whole pitching staff was 10 pitchers max (and sometimes only 12-14 guys used in a season) and a bullpen arm would also pitch 100 innings or more in their 50 apperances.

[Doctor Gast]

I'd keep Vallimont in AAA until he masters his control. I can see Duran easily do well in a BP role. Alcala has developed his 3rd pitch and can see him develop in a starter, also I can see the same happen to Duran.