Where are you currently with this FO?

[cHawk]

We have been talking Falvey and Levine on this site for months now. I already made a thread about this, but that was back in June. Since then there’s been the trade deadline, half of the offseason, and the Buxton extension. I think it’s appropriate to revisit this subject for that reason.

As always, vote above and elaborate below!

[Greglw3]

11 minutes ago, cHawk said:

We have been talking Falvey and Levine on this site for months now. I already made a thread about this, but that was back in June. Since then there’s been the trade deadline, half of the offseason, and the Buxton extension. I think it’s appropriate to revisit this subject for that reason.

As always, vote above and elaborate below!

Based on all evidence so far, I stick with my grade for them: F. Luckily (or not), they have time to erase that to a good extent by opening day. But where, oh where, is the pitching? Check out the 1977 Twins starting staff. As of now, this one in 2021 may not be even that good!

[Brandon]

I think these guys do some things well.  The pitcher development is incomplete due to COVID which is frustrating and since they aren't ready yet it makes their failures on Happ and Shoemaker stand out more.  With last offseason rule 5 against us adds to it to.  Since we are the one who own the rule 5... See Santana, Brian Buscher in minor league draft, Shane Mack, Ryan Pressly, and Scott Diamond......

Trading Berrios sucked.  And Maeda getting hurt does too.  

But they did go out and sign Donaldson which is nice to see money spent.  The trades for Odorrizzi and Maeda were big wins.  They do a great job of filling out a bullpen or fixing one on the fly.  We have incredible depth on our roster.  And we have low liabilities moving forward.  Or not too much money on the books.  

I want to see how these 6 or 7 or 8 starting pitchers develop first before giving the axe.  

[Danchat]

I want to see how their prospects develop, and see if the farm system is as good as they've been talked up to be. Will the pitching rebound and make the 2021 look like a fluke? Or will our prospects continue to struggle and get hurt, and make 2021 look like the start of a bad trend? Let's hope we don't have another stoppage in play that will pause development again.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Right now I’m either middle ground or IDK. I’ve been super unimpressed with the past 8-10 months but will let the 2022 season play out before declaring an opinion. Maybe their pitching pipeline is about to explode and all of this will make sense. I don’t think that will happen but would be happy to be wrong. 

[Doctor Gast]

I'm not satisfied with their ability to evaluate players, often overvaluing some not needed players while undervaluing more critical players. That effects trades that should be done but not and letting go players that should be kept.

The 2 top moves that they've done, signing Buxton and moving Polanco to 2B, IMO were done under pressure to do so, w/o the pressure it wouldn't have been done. The 3rd best, signing Cruz, I credit Scoop a lot for it. I'd like them to be more confident in their baseball savvy (if they have any) to step in and correct Baldelli when need be. Although I like our pitching prospects now, it's been some time where our top prospects  haven't made that big step.

I would have liked to see them fired before now. But since they are still around, I hope they'll improve their short comings for the better.

 

[MGM4706]

No team goes deep in the Playoffs without an Ace. So by not getting an Ace or even a #2 that is all you need to grade them. They appear to be following the Pohlad plan of not worrying about winning but just making sure the Club makes a profit. The Hell with the fans!

[Seth Stohs]

The results have certainly been mixed, for sure. But I believe in their processes. I love what they've done in player development, with coaches, coordinators, technology and analytics, especially with pitchers... and seeing the strategies in terms of the draft and development, it's going to be fun to see them going forward. I personally agree with their philosophy on getting as many data points into all decisions. (Data points being analytics, scouting, people's opinions in various roles, etc.)  

 

[wsnydes]

I'm still waiting to see how they respond to the adversity.  A weird off-season doesn't help anything, but that's part of the bit.  I am pretty disappointed with the lack of movement just before the CBA expired, but they still have an opportunity to improve the team.  

I also want to see how their prospects develop.  Rebuilding the farm system is not a quick task.

[cHawk]

16 minutes ago, MGM4706 said:

No team goes deep in the Playoffs without an Ace. So by not getting an Ace or even a #2 that is all you need to grade them. They appear to be following the Pohlad plan of not worrying about winning but just making sure the Club makes a profit. The Hell with the fans!

They’ve never had even a #2 in their tenure?

Didn’t they have a Cy Young runner up in 2020 along with a very good Berrios? You don’t win playoff games scoring one run per game.

[Vanimal46]

I don’t know. I will no longer accept the excuse of 2020. The pitching pipeline should be back on track. They have 10 pitchers in AAA and AA with upside, and it’s time to see results. The Berrios trade pissed me off, but I should probably be directing my anger at the Pohlads instead of Falvey and Levine. I am fully convinced there’s an organizational philosophy in place to not spend top dollar on pitching. 

If they sign a top flight SS like Story and make a trade for a high end pitcher that will go a long way towards me singing their praises 

[Brock Beauchamp]

12 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I don’t know. I will no longer accept the excuse of 2020. The pitching pipeline should be back on track.

Absolutely. While I gave them a lot of slack due to covid and then mass injuries, 2022 is the year the farm needs to start producing arms. They’re out of excuses. 

[lecroy24fan]

I went middle ground based on the downturn in 2021. I am not a believer in firing based on one bad season no matter the expectations,

[Richie the Rally Goat]

The state of the rotation and prospects for adding to it before the season starts has me down on the FO. If the pitching development comes through and they surprise me in ‘22. I would be thrilled to see them stay

if it doesn’t and the team craps the bed, Falvine should not be the ones to oversee the rebuild.

2022 is the pivotal year

Edit to add, Strategies seem sound per Seth’s comment but execution has driven me insane. Maybe Levine needs to go, Falvey stays.

[Seth Stohs]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Absolutely. While I gave them a lot of slack due to covid and then mass injuries, 2022 is the year the farm needs to start producing arms. They’re out of excuses. 

I think 2022 is the year where we can really start kind of judging the pitching development. 2020 is an excuse... it's also reality. That's a lost season. And, while I've heard more experts say that it will effect things for up to two years, the Twins have got guys at AA and AAA that should be ready sometime this season... if healthy. And, I'm excited about that next tier with Varland, Gipson-Long, Legumina, Mooney... Obviously it's got to play out and human error means that it's impossible to really predict with any confidence, especially with injury... but I'll stand by the strategy. 

[DJL44]

They seem quite mediocre. There are things they do better than Terry Ryan but not that much better and Terry Ryan had his advantages as well. They need to sign some international free agent pitchers. They're one of the worst teams in baseball in acquiring Latin American pitchers as teenagers. They keep acquiring infielders who can't stick at shortstop and outfielders but they do a terrible job trading them for anything useful to balance the roster. They wait way too long to convert their lesser starting pitching prospects into relievers. I think this is because the cupboard is so bare when it comes to starting pitching prospects that they're desperate to find anyone.

[old nurse]

The front office may well be hamstrung by Pohlad. The ghosts of pitchers past in rough order Blackburn extension, Pavano extension, Hughes extension, Nolasco being a dog after signing. Hector Santiago. Now Happ and Shomaker. Pohlad signs off on the large contracts. That was a lot of money down the tubes. Carl Pohlad made his money by buying low and selling high. The baseball structure doesn’t work that way

[tarheeltwinsfan]

5 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I'm not satisfied with their ability to evaluate players, often overvaluing some not needed players while undervaluing more critical players. That effects trades that should be done but not and letting go players that should be kept.

The 2 top moves that they've done, signing Buxton and moving Polanco to 2B, IMO were done under pressure to do so, w/o the pressure it wouldn't have been done. The 3rd best, signing Cruz, I credit Scoop a lot for it. I'd like them to be more confident in their baseball savvy (if they have any) to step in and correct Baldelli when need be. Although I like our pitching prospects now, it's been some time where our top prospects  haven't made that big step.

I would have liked to see them fired before now. But since they are still around, I hope they'll improve their short comings for the better.

 

It didn't take a degree in economics to sign Buck. 99 % of us on TD was practically screaming at the FO to get it dome. The moving of Polanco to 2B was obvious when we watched him throw the baseball from SS to 1B. So I don't give the FO credit for these 2 moves. They were no brainers in my book. I am most disappointed in the steady trickle of talented Twins players and prospects lost for nothing gained. Finally, as much as I love the Twins and as much as I enjoy reading here on TD about all the prospects' successes, I believe some of us TD readers have a tendency to over value the Twins farm system, year after year.  

[Vanimal46]

4 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

I think 2022 is the year where we can really start kind of judging the pitching development. 2020 is an excuse... it's also reality. That's a lost season. And, while I've heard more experts say that it will effect things for up to two years, the Twins have got guys at AA and AAA that should be ready sometime this season... if healthy. And, I'm excited about that next tier with Varland, Gipson-Long, Legumina, Mooney... Obviously it's got to play out and human error means that it's impossible to really predict with any confidence, especially with injury... but I'll stand by the strategy. 

I fully understand 2020 being a lost season. This should also be the last time we bring it up. The minor leagues played a full season. Time to see results from the pipeline now. No excuses. 

[Rosterman]

I truly believe in them and want to see them for a longer haul. They are remaking the organization into their own vision. From the minors to the majors.

 

I wish there was more honesty about budget. Just tell us you can't spend BIG today, or even tomorrow.

 

The Donaldson signing was an explosion, but don't do things sometimes for the sake of doing them.

 

I did think the team was going to perform much better than it did last season, but you can predict injuries, plus the total meltdown of the rotation and the closer killing us in the first few weeks spelled death.

 

I'm not expecting a lot in 2022. I would if we had Medea fulltime and Pineda coming back, but we don't. We aren't one BIG free agent away, and no amount of temporary signings will help the team in the longterm. They either have to trade for longer term assests, or trust the farm system. And in trading, they have to make hard decisions on names like Sano and Kepler and Duffey and Rogers in the future plans for the Twins. 

 

Some team has to lose a game. You need to sell advertising. You need to put butts in the stands. The Twins did pretty well putting fans in the stands once the restrictions stopped last season. Be interesting to see how they sell to the season ticket base, how the caravan works outs, and what kind of marketing they do for their own players (especially Buxton) in 2022. The current keys have always been Buxton and Sano.

 

I am sad they lost Berrios. Proof will probably stand that signing him might've been easier than convincing someone else to take a similar contract with the team/

 

There is no way we should've been behind anyone BUT Chicago in 2021. But we were in the cellar! So sad!

[Old fox]

16 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

The results have certainly been mixed, for sure. But I believe in their processes. I love what they've done in player development, with coaches, coordinators, technology and analytics, especially with pitchers... and seeing the strategies in terms of the draft and development, it's going to be fun to see them going forward. I personally agree with their philosophy on getting as many data points into all decisions. (Data points being analytics, scouting, people's opinions in various roles, etc.)  

 

I to am relatively satisfied with their effort. I’ve been satisfied with the overall improvement of the team (1) prospects have improved its good to see the move from position to pitching effort. (2) FA model has had success & failures which is normal. (3)The trading model is good. (4)The stat department has been improved greatly. (5) The decision making process may have to be tinkered with as to arriving sooner to making moves. But this maybe the result of the ownership’s model which the management team has to operate within. (6) the turning over of valuable assets is ok as to gaining production from new longer term assets, but it would be nice to see an amount of immediate production from new assets.  These are expensive, minor verses major league assets. Overall grade B-. That isn’t bad for a rookie management team.

[Heistyman]

I'm in the IDK group and I'd like to see some of the prospects develop before judging.  The Berrios situaion is heartbreaking and hopefully they negotiated ferociously to keep him.  Sometimes I think we give up on guys too quickly and don't let them fight through the struggles or recover from injury.  I think of how Perkins had several bad years before turning into an all star.  I hate seeing former Twins killing it after they leave (not all on Falvine) and wonder if the Twins held them back or rushed to judge them.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, Heistyman said:

The Berrios situaion is heartbreaking and hopefully they negotiated ferociously to keep him.

I think it's pretty safe to say they did not do this.

[Physics Guy]

18 hours ago, MGM4706 said:

No team goes deep in the Playoffs without an Ace. So by not getting an Ace or even a #2 that is all you need to grade them. They appear to be following the Pohlad plan of not worrying about winning but just making sure the Club makes a profit. The Hell with the fans!

I understand your point, but that is not entirely true.  Both Maeda and Berrios were as good last year as anybody the Royals had in 2015.  You don't have to have an "Ace", but it certainly helps.

[Physics Guy]

I am somewhat ambivalent to this FO. I was enthusiastic about the changes they made early on, but things have stagnated. Some of the lack of development, or should  say the lack of pitchers being promoted to the majors, can certainly be attributed to the lack of a minor league season in 2020. It's hard to dispute that the Twins were unlucky with regards to health this past season. 

Many have ripped the Twins for not protecting Akil Badoo, but I think it was a reasonable gamble on the Twins part. The guy was 22 and had most recently played only 29 games at High A in 2019, so I understand their gamble.  Some say it was foolish to keep Jake Cave, but he had an OPS+ of 111 and 113 in '18 and '19.  His K/BB ratios should have been a clue that keeping Lamonte Wad was probably the wiser choice.  I am more disappointed with their lack of giving guys like Wade, Nick Anderson and Tyler Wells opportunities before jettisoning them.  

I think this FO has done some things well.  They have made good bargain signings towards the end of the offseason, such as Cruz, Donaldson and even Lance Lynn and Logan Morrison.  The last two may not have worked out for the Twins (still ticked about Lynn's attitude and subsequent performance with the Sox), but they appeared to be good signings at face value.  I think the front office has done a good job of acquiring young talent at the trade deadline.  The Buxton signing was a godsend and is team-friendly.  

The part that has me soured on the FO is the lack of activity in the FA market.  They clearly have needs at SP and SS and given past budgets, money to spend.  While they certainly can still make trades to acquire the needed pieces, that requires surrendering prospects instead of just money.  It's not like they don't have the money, so I don't quite get it.  My suspicion is that the Twins will trade for one veteran SP of the Sonny Gray ilk and maybe sign Pineda and someone like Jose Iglesias as stop-gaps in hopes that the young pitchers and Lewis/Martin develop.  It seems this FO is pushing all of their chips in depending on those prospects to develop.  If that is the case, they had better hope they pan out or they may be looking for a new job.  I hope that my suspicion is incorrect, but their is little proof to the contrary thus far. 

[cHawk]

3 hours ago, Heistyman said:

I'm in the IDK group and I'd like to see some of the prospects develop before judging.  The Berrios situaion is heartbreaking and hopefully they negotiated ferociously to keep him.  Sometimes I think we give up on guys too quickly and don't let them fight through the struggles or recover from injury.  I think of how Perkins had several bad years before turning into an all star.  I hate seeing former Twins killing it after they leave (not all on Falvine) and wonder if the Twins held them back or rushed to judge them.

I mean Berrios kind of wanted out so trading him was probably the best way to go.

That being said the money Toronto gave him makes me suspicious.

[USAFChief]

Solidly in the IDK category as of today, but trending down.

[KirbyDome89]

23 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

I don’t know. I will no longer accept the excuse of 2020. The pitching pipeline should be back on track. They have 10 pitchers in AAA and AA with upside, and it’s time to see results. 

If they sign a top flight SS like Story and make a trade for a high end pitcher that will go a long way towards me singing their praises 

I'd define "results," as certainty moving forward that, at minimum, 2 of the prospects will slot in as 3-4 spots in the rotation moving forward. They can't piss away this season with Bundy, Pineda (or somebody in that tier) plus maybe another flier and then watch the prospects that are healthy enough to accumulate innings "take their lumps." I'm counting Ryan as a prospect, Ober not so much. Maybe that changes. We can't be in the same position, being sold prospect hope/upside, to start next year. 

Ditto, but I see the chances of doing either as slim, and both as essentially nonexistant. More likely I can see a trade for another Odo type. Story is probably a pipe dream unless he's willing to take a short term high AAV deal and the Twins are willing to give him one + move Donaldson. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

19 hours ago, Rosterman said:

 

 

I am sad they lost Berrios. Proof will probably stand that signing him might've been easier than convincing someone else to take a similar contract with the team/

 

There is no way we should've been behind anyone BUT Chicago in 2021. But we were in the cellar! So sad!

Rosterman, you are so correct about Berrios. And you are correct that the Twins, even with the injuries, should have finished second. All in all, 2021 was a miserable season for us Twins fans, and for the whole organization. .

[RonCoomersOPS]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:09 PM, Vanimal46 said:

The Berrios trade pissed me off, but I should probably be directing my anger at the Pohlads instead of Falvey and Levine.

You should probably direct your anger at Berrios. It takes two parties to make a contract. One of the parties in this case consistently said he was going to test free agency, end of story, so the other party did what they felt was best in terms of maximizing the value of their assets.

That he immediately signed with the team the FO traded him to is at least as much an indication of Berrios' character, or a statement about the not particularly inclusive nature of his former team's fan base, as it is a condemnation of the FO or the Pohlads.