I'm not sure this has been corrected elsewhere but Jake Cave's contract is guaranteed according to Spotrac. He took the guaranteed money rather than go for more in arbitration, like Wisler 2 years ago. Only arbitration salaries are not guaranteed (not arbitration-eligible).

Jake Cave signed a 1 year / $800,000 contract with the Minnesota Twins, including $800,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $800,000. In 2022, Cave will earn a base salary of $800,000, while carrying a total salary of $800,000.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/minnesota-twins/jake-cave-18466/ 

Ew, yuck. 

Why am I not surprized

Well, reading this isn't how I wanted to start my week...

And this comes on the heels of the Yankees releasing a player with FAR MORE potential than Cave...Clint Frazier.  Is our FO REALLY this impotent ??  You don't guarantee ANYTHING to a guy who didn't even hit his weight last year (and he doesn't weigh anything close to Sano).  No wonder Cave took the guarantee rather than go to arbitration.  

It is 800K. No big deal if he ends up cut at some point, except to Cave who might have a hard time earning that kind of money again. Well, I guess it is a big deal to those that probably never dealt with back injuries.

Planning on a Buxton departure. Making it seem like they are doing something before the dumpster diving starts.

11 hours ago, Lonestar said:

I'm not sure this has been corrected elsewhere but Jake Cave's contract is guaranteed according to Spotrac. He took the guaranteed money rather than go for more in arbitration, like Wisler 2 years ago. Only arbitration salaries are not guaranteed (not arbitration-eligible).

When arb-eligible players agree to contracts before going to actual arbitration (which happens with the vast majority of eligible players), aren't those contracts only guaranteed in full after spring training ends?

Yea, a real head scratcher. Not sure what Twins are thinking. Will be disappointed if Cave on opening roster.

Seriously there is no reason in the world to throw any amount of money into Jake Cave. This FO is starting to prove they have no clue on how to build a competitive roster year after year.

Reminder that the CBA hasn't even set the MLB minimum for next season. $800,000 might be less than the new minimum.

Meh. I wouldn’t react too much to this signing. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s cut before opening day.

10 minutes ago, cHawk said:

Meh. I wouldn’t react too much to this signing. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s cut before opening day.

With the outfield situation in flux, he wasn't going to get released early anyway. He was going to be on the roster at least until the Buxton situation and it's aftermath is sorted out and that won't be until after arbitration figures were cemented. If his arbitration figure was going to be higher, the 800K will make it easier for the Twins to cut bait, something they've done with far worse contracts.

13 minutes ago, cHawk said:

Meh. I wouldn’t react too much to this signing. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s cut before opening day.

agreed, they are paying Colome 1.25 to not play, 800K is nothing in the grand scheme of things. The only way it really turns bad for the Twins is if they suck and they keep playing him over a prospect. I don't want Laranch/AK or Celestino being the 4th outfielder, so hopefully the plan is to let the young guys play in the minors and Cave ride the bench until they are ready.

Why pay any more than 800K for a guy to ride the bench? Or they know he is still hurt and they are being kind to him knowing insurance will cover most of the 800k?

(At least I hope that is what the FO is thinking)

Percent chance Cave is opening day CF is greater than 0.  Probably like 15%?

17 minutes ago, lukeduke1980 said:

Percent chance Cave is opening day CF is greater than 0.  Probably like 15%?

If he's the opening day CF, we're going to have way more to complain about than just Cave. It would mean that Buxton would be gone. Also, no team that is trying to "contend" has Cave as their opening day CF so that means they sat out free agency completely.

2 hours ago, cHawk said:

Meh. I wouldn’t react too much to this signing. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s cut before opening day.

I disagree, I think he’s a near lock for a roster spot. I am guessing he will start on the bench and will hopefully have a short leash. 

 

18 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

If he's the opening day CF, we're going to have way more to complain about than just Cave. It would mean that Buxton would be gone. Also, no team that is trying to "contend" has Cave as their opening day CF so that means they sat out free agency completely.

Buxton is absolutely capable of getting hurt in Spring Training… 

4 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Buxton is absolutely capable of getting hurt in Spring Training… 

Kepler would have to be hurt as well. 

15 hours ago, Lonestar said:

I'm not sure this has been corrected elsewhere but Jake Cave's contract is guaranteed according to Spotrac. He took the guaranteed money rather than go for more in arbitration, like Wisler 2 years ago. Only arbitration salaries are not guaranteed (not arbitration-eligible).

Jake Cave signed a 1 year / $800,000 contract with the Minnesota Twins, including $800,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $800,000. In 2022, Cave will earn a base salary of $800,000, while carrying a total salary of $800,000.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/minnesota-twins/jake-cave-18466/ 

I'm not sure this is correct.

If you look at the 2017-2021 MLB CBA, termination pay is defined on page 36 with no mention of arbitration. Termination pay can be available to anyone on a "Uniform Player's Contract" which I believe is the standard 1-year contract for pre-FA players, regardless of how that single year salary is determined (whether by an arbiter, an agreement avoiding arbitration, pre-arb renewal, etc.).

Spotrac is obviously just using an automated template for Cave's contract details here -- after all, they are reporting the "average annual salary" of a 1-year contract . So it's quite possible they simply entered/coded it incorrectly.

As others have mentioned, Cave's contract is not yet fully guaranteed. Does that mean they don't fully intend to have him on the team come Spring Training and Game 1 of 162? No. But it's important to get the details right and his deal isn't guaranteed. I'd think that makes it even easier for the FO to cut him loose if/when they find an upgrade.

Even if we simply cut him at some point - Why?  Corner outfield depth is a strength of our roster.  To even offer him anything seems pointless when he can be likely be replace with someone both better, and cheaper.

13 minutes ago, farmerguychris said:

Even if we simply cut him at some point - Why?  Corner outfield depth is a strength of our roster.  To even offer him anything seems pointless when he can be likely be replace with someone both better, and cheaper.

Strength-depth?

A lot of rookies showing they belong in AAA or even AA.

I did find this report on Wisler, from December 2019:

Ehire Adrianza also agreed to a arb-avoiding deal around that same time that was specifically reported as "guaranteed" in the press.

But I haven't seen any reporting that Cave's deal is guaranteed yet (the automated entry at Spotrac notwithstanding). And I've found other contract reports from this time of year about non-guaranteed deals for arb-eligible players too, so a guarantee doesn't seem universal to contracts signed before the non-tender deadline / arbitration process.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Cave deal was guaranteed, because it's a fairly trivial amount and I don't think he will get cut before opening day anyway.

1 hour ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

I did find this report on Wisler, from December 2019:

Ehire Adrianza also agreed to a arb-avoiding deal around that same time that was specifically reported as "guaranteed" in the press.

But I haven't seen any reporting that Cave's deal is guaranteed yet (the automated entry at Spotrac notwithstanding). And I've found other contract reports from this time of year about non-guaranteed deals for arb-eligible players too, so a guarantee doesn't seem universal to contracts signed before the non-tender deadline / arbitration process.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Cave deal was guaranteed, because it's a fairly trivial amount and I don't think he will get cut before opening day anyway.

I was looking into Wisler too, the timing confused me, but I think the Twins claimed him October 30 of 2019, then avoided arbitration with him by signing him to a guaranteed contract for the 2020 season; it wasn't this past season. It threw me, but I think last year was different in that arbitration didn't happen until after the new year started so the datelines of the articles were confusing.

What, ultimately, is a 40-man roster spot worth to a team and the complications you have in cutting or sending down a player. That is what matters in the end. Money is immaterial. 

 

Some players will only sign if on the 40-man, although that doesn't mean they will stay there.

 

It's not my $800k. $800k is 0.6% of the $130m projected payroll on our fun roster calculators. JP can scrape this up in his couch cushions. Most of the board cheered when the the FO guaranteed the pay of every minor leaguer in the Twins farm (I strongly supported too) and that was like $4m and that didn't stop the FO from making any free agent moves either, 5X what we're currently talking about.

It's going to be OK, a mediocre 4th or 5th outfielder is going to be OK

19 hours ago, RpR said:

Strength-depth?

A lot of rookies showing they belong in AAA or even AA.

Has Cave shown he is anything better than a 4A player himself?

13 hours ago, farmerguychris said:

Has Cave shown he is anything better than a 4A player himself?

His fielding is best of the possibilities, and he is not a rookie.

On 11/22/2021 at 5:24 PM, Sconnie said:

It's not my $800k. $800k is 0.6% of the $130m projected payroll on our fun roster calculators. JP can scrape this up in his couch cushions. Most of the board cheered when the the FO guaranteed the pay of every minor leaguer in the Twins farm (I strongly supported too) and that was like $4m and that didn't stop the FO from making any free agent moves either, 5X what we're currently talking about.

It's going to be OK, a mediocre 4th or 5th outfielder is going to be OK

Ok???  They could have added this $800,000 to some heavily incentive laden Buxton contract!  
 

 

On 11/22/2021 at 1:47 PM, Otto von Ballpark said:

I did find this report on Wisler, from December 2019:

Ehire Adrianza also agreed to a arb-avoiding deal around that same time that was specifically reported as "guaranteed" in the press.

But I haven't seen any reporting that Cave's deal is guaranteed yet (the automated entry at Spotrac notwithstanding). And I've found other contract reports from this time of year about non-guaranteed deals for arb-eligible players too, so a guarantee doesn't seem universal to contracts signed before the non-tender deadline / arbitration process.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Cave deal was guaranteed, because it's a fairly trivial amount and I don't think he will get cut before opening day anyway.

Gleeman was speaking about this on the podcast the other day. I'm leaning pretty heavily toward Cave not being a guaranteed contract at this point.

If it's not guaranteed, I still don't agree with the decision but it's no longer indefensible. Having Cave as an insurance policy for $100k or whatever isn't a terrible decision. It's absolutely not the decision I'd make but it's not terrible.