Possible trade candidates from Oakland to acquire.

[darin617]

I saw a very disturbing post saying the A's will be cutting payroll and aiming for a $50M budget. That means everyone is available.  Could be a great way to rebuild the rotation by dismantling theirs.

 

Chapman & Olson would be great to acquire as well. But the main objective should be pitching, pitching, and more pitching.  I would not have any issues trading prospects (lottery tickets) for proven talent.

[TwinsDr2021]

It certainly seems like the time for the Twins FO, to call up OAK, and try to pry a few of those starting pitchers away.

Montas FA in 2024, Bassitt and Manaea in 2023, so it seems like it shouldn't cost a ton for Bassitt and Manaea, Montas maybe a bit more.

I would be willing to give up bunch of the prospects and/or maybe Laranch for Montas and one of the others.

[terrydactyls]

How about Kepler, Rooker, Urbina, Below, and Soulaire for Montas and Manaea?

[Major League Ready]

Here comes a bunch of proposals where we trade several mediocre players or prospects.  Oakland is not going to give any proposal 2 minutes of thought if it does not contain a high ceiling / high FV prospect. 

[brockbesler]

How about this.

Twins get:

Montas

Manaea

Andrus

 

A’s get

Arraez

Larnach

Cavaco

Enlow

 

According to mlb trade sim this is a slight overpay for the Twins, but I think taking on Andrus salary would really entice the A’s.

 

[LuckyLarry65]

2 hours ago, brockbesler said:

How about this.

Twins get:

Montas

Manaea

Andrus

 

A’s get

Arraez

Larnach

Cavaco

Enlow

 

According to mlb trade sim this is a slight overpay for the Twins, but I think taking on Andrus salary would really entice the A’s.

 

I'm a fan of it IF we could keep Arraez and find someone else to include.  Montas and Manaea could really help the Twins.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, brockbesler said:

How about this.

Twins get:

Montas

Manaea

Andrus

 

A’s get

Arraez

Larnach

Cavaco

Enlow

 

According to mlb trade sim this is a slight overpay for the Twins, but I think taking on Andrus salary would really entice the A’s.

 

I can't see the A's having any interest in Arraez.  They are rebuilding.  He will be gone by the time they rebuild.

[Otto von Ballpark]

2 hours ago, brockbesler said:

According to mlb trade sim this is a slight overpay for the Twins, but I think taking on Andrus salary would really entice the A’s.

Oakland only owes Andrus $6.75 million in 2022 (Texas is on the hook for the rest). And according to MLB Trade Rumors, Andrus' 2023 option won't kick in unless he reaches 550 PA in 2022, which is doubtful.

He's still not worth that much, but it's also pretty meager salary relief too.

[brockbesler]

3 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I can't see the A's having any interest in Arraez.  They are rebuilding.  He will be gone by the time they rebuild.

I’m not sure if I completely agree with this. It’s not like Arraez is a rental, he has 4 years of control left. However, if they do decide to go for a complete rebuild then he might not interest them much.

[Rosterman]

3 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I can't see the A's having any interest in Arraez.  They are rebuilding.  He will be gone by the time they rebuild.

I see Arraez as a possible solid player to sign to a decent longterm contract, that any team should be able to flip. Right up Billy beane's alley!

[Major League Ready]

11 hours ago, Rosterman said:

I see Arraez as a possible solid player to sign to a decent longterm contract, that any team should be able to flip. Right up Billy beane's alley!

That's a reasonable possibility.  It's also reasonable to assume other teams are going to offer high profile prospects.  Arraez is the only valuable asset being offered in the trade scenario that started this discussion.  Therefore, the only way Oakland get's what they want is if the can roll Arraez for a very high value prospect.  Maybe they can maybe they can't.  Why would Oakland take that chance if there are offers that include a high profile prospect which you have to believe would be the case.

[Major League Ready]

11 hours ago, brockbesler said:

I’m not sure if I completely agree with this. It’s not like Arraez is a rental, he has 4 years of control left. However, if they do decide to go for a complete rebuild then he might not interest them much.

It sure sounds like they are talking about a complete teardown and rebuild.  They would be extremely fortunate to be back in contention after 3 years but it's most likely longer.  So, best case scenario, they might have one year with Arraez.  He has far more value to a team in a contention window or confident they are entering a contention window.  

[TwinsDr2021]

4 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

It sure sounds like they are talking about a complete teardown and rebuild.  They would be extremely fortunate to be back in contention after 3 years but it's most likely longer.  So, best case scenario, they might have one year with Arraez.  He has far more value to a team in a contention window or confident they are entering a contention window.  

Agreed Arraez isn't helping get anybody from the A's, I am thinking they are going to want something like Larnach, SWR, and lottery ticket young guy.

 

[TopGunn#22]

Oakland is a team the twins certainly need to be talking to.  Montas, Bassitt and Manaea are ALL pitchers that could help the Twins.  Montas is the Diamond here but would certainly cost the most.  As badly as the Twins need "quantity" as much as "quality" in their starting rotation you could make a case for putting a deal for both Bassitt and Manaea together instead of the high cost for just Montas.

Bassitt and Manaea are signed thru 2023.  That would help stabilize the Twins rotation while giving more time for Balazovic, Duran, Canterino, Winder, Sands, Strotman,  Petty,  etc...to develop.  I've just listed seven pitchers.  We don't have room for them all.  Arraez, Larnach and a Strotman and Winder could get this done.  (I'd have to check BTV to see if I'm over the target or far off course on this).  But the gist of what I'm saying is obvious.  Trade some minor league prospects with an established player like Arraez and look to make a splash like this.  Imagine:  If you acquired Bassitt and Manaea in a deal like this and also signed a FA like Robbie Ray, Kevin Gausman or Carlos Rodon ??  You'd have a pitching staff that could compete in 2022 and a lineup that could score.  I like Arraez a LOT.  But we can get what we would out of him with Jose Miranda.  Gordon is in the mix and Martin and Lewis are coming.  Arraez is a trade chip the Twins MUST use this off season and a team like the A's would be interested.  After 2023 the Twins assess how things are going.  How well have Bassitt & Manaea pitched ?  How have some of our minor league pitchers developed ?  Is Balazovic in the rotation?  Is Duran closing ? (or did the A's demand he be included and we did to close the deal).  Where is Petty at in his progression ?  When you've answered those questions you decide if we're keeping Bassitt and/or Manaea  going forward and which young pitchers worked out.  

[MABB1959]

LOL....seems like the Twins are in a rebuild phase w/o any proven talent besides Buxton, Polanco and a few others to maybe offer.  I don't see our close prospects to be much more than average MLB players.  That being said there have been so many injuries and I do not remember any real excitement.  Maybe Ober is close to above average? I don't pay attention to stats because they can be misleading.  I don't think they will trade Buxton this off-season or they will see ticket sales drop for sure.  But I am 99.999% sure he will be gone next year at the trade deadline.  Hopefully by then a few more of our prospects start to shine.   I am still not over this year so it is hard to be glass half full.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, TopGunn#22 said:

Oakland is a team the twins certainly need to be talking to.  Montas, Bassitt and Manaea are ALL pitchers that could help the Twins.  Montas is the Diamond here but would certainly cost the most.  As badly as the Twins need "quantity" as much as "quality" in their starting rotation you could make a case for putting a deal for both Bassitt and Manaea together instead of the high cost for just Montas.

Bassitt and Manaea are signed thru 2023.  That would help stabilize the Twins rotation while giving more time for Balazovic, Duran, Canterino, Winder, Sands, Strotman,  Petty,  etc...to develop.  I've just listed seven pitchers.  We don't have room for them all.  Arraez, Larnach and a Strotman and Winder could get this done.  (I'd have to check BTV to see if I'm over the target or far off course on this).  But the gist of what I'm saying is obvious.  Trade some minor league prospects with an established player like Arraez and look to make a splash like this.  Imagine:  If you acquired Bassitt and Manaea in a deal like this and also signed a FA like Robbie Ray, Kevin Gausman or Carlos Rodon ??  You'd have a pitching staff that could compete in 2022 and a lineup that could score.  I like Arraez a LOT.  But we can get what we would out of him with Jose Miranda.  Gordon is in the mix and Martin and Lewis are coming.  Arraez is a trade chip the Twins MUST use this off season and a team like the A's would be interested.  After 2023 the Twins assess how things are going.  How well have Bassitt & Manaea pitched ?  How have some of our minor league pitchers developed ?  Is Balazovic in the rotation?  Is Duran closing ? (or did the A's demand he be included and we did to close the deal).  Where is Petty at in his progression ?  When you've answered those questions you decide if we're keeping Bassitt and/or Manaea  going forward and which young pitchers worked out.  

Bassit and Manea were not good enough to lead Oakland to the playoffs even with Montas who is better than both of them.  Why should we believe they would be good enough to lead the Twins to the playtoffs?  Oakland had a better offense than the Twins so that's not a difference maker.  No doubt we would be better.  Sounds to me like an 85-86 win team if things workout.  Is that the goal or should we try to build a legit contender?

[TwinsDr2021]

21 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Bassit and Manea were not good enough to lead Oakland to the playoffs even with Montas who is better than both of them.  Why should we believe they would be good enough to lead the Twins to the playtoffs?  Oakland had a better offense than the Twins so that's not a difference maker.  No doubt we would be better.  Sounds to me like an 85-86 win team if things workout.  Is that the goal or should we try to build a legit contender?

are you saying for the Twins to get to the playoffs, we need better pitchers than those 3? What are the odds of 3 of the Twins pitching prospects end up as good as them let alone better?

Combined all three will make less than 24 million next year, with signing Buxton that would still leave plenty of money to fill out the team. Sure maybe the end up with 85 wins next year, but with the two that could still be here, and the prospects living up to expectations they are set up for 2023, and that is when they could sign #1.

 

[Rosterman]

Biggest Question: What do the Twins need to be playoff bound in 2022?

 

It's not like the Twins are on the cusp and need to look at an "All-In" situation.

 

If players you trade for are just stopgaps to put you a bit higher in the standings before they, too, depart (or are traded for other prospects)...then you have to carefully look at your own prospects and make realistic decisions on their contributions to the team going forth.

 

You would be trading guys who may outshine the players you are trading for by the time those players leave your team. All propsects often need is time and innings or at bats and the desire to play.

 

I - honestly - think it is a pipe dream that the Twins will contend in 2022. Sure, management will tell us that they will, and the public relations will be big until the season starts.

 

The Twins could, magically, buy into being a contender, as well as trade away much of their future to put pressure on the current leading White Sox. But don't expect Cleveland, Kansas City and Detroit to just sit back and watch...they will also be part of the action.

 

Yes, you can have too many prospects. I see the Twins entering April with a half-dozen starting pitchers on their 40-man roster that will be starting in the minors, surrounded by others hoping to also get a call and pass these guys. So you could conceivably trade 2-3 or maybe even four of these guys for talent to play right now, today, as well as think that you could also flip these guys you traded for if the team is just...okay. That's the only reason to move prospects.

 

Others are coming up fast. Who needs to be added to the 40-man come Fall of 2022. Fall 0f 2023. If you see people that make you comfortable moving Larnach, Celestino, Gordon, Balazovic, Winder, Duran, not to mention Thorpe and Smeltzer (both lefties with potential). Are Sands, Enlow, Canterino and others worth more to you in the longer run than anyone you are protecting today. Or are those guys I just mentioned the icing on the cake and NOT really as good as we might thing. 

 

 

 

[beckmt]

23 hours ago, brockbesler said:

How about this.

Twins get:

Montas

Manaea

Andrus

 

A’s get

Arraez

Larnach

Cavaco

Enlow

 

According to mlb trade sim this is a slight overpay for the Twins, but I think taking on Andrus salary would really entice the A’s.

 

Don't think this structure will work for Oakland.  They will want more top prospects and less possible lottery tickets.  they also have to field a major league team next year, missing most of  their top 5.

 

Try Larnach, Rooker, duran, Enlow.  it may be an overpay, but probably closer to what Oakland could use. 

[beckmt]

Just now, beckmt said:

Don't think this structure will work for Oakland.  They will want more top prospects and less possible lottery tickets.  they also have to field a major league team next year, missing most of  their top 5.

 

Try Larnach, Rooker, duran, Enlow.  it may be an overpay, but probably closer to what Oakland could use. 

This also assumes we could extend one of the pitchers

[Vanimal46]

What possible motive does Oakland have to cut their payroll by 50%? Other than padding the owner’s pockets. MLB badly needs a salary floor to prevent stuff like this happening. 

[Major League Ready]

8 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

are you saying for the Twins to get to the playoffs, we need better pitchers than those 3? What are the odds of 3 of the Twins pitching prospects end up as good as them let alone better?

Combined all three will make less than 24 million next year, with signing Buxton that would still leave plenty of money to fill out the team. Sure maybe the end up with 85 wins next year, but with the two that could still be here, and the prospects living up to expectations they are set up for 2023, and that is when they could sign #1.

 

Not sure how that came through but this medium is not ideal for these conversations.  My point was those two (not those 3) probably would not be enough to get us to the playoffs and certainly would not make us a serious contender.  

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

What possible motive does Oakland have to cut their payroll by 50%? Other than padding the owner’s pockets. MLB badly needs a salary floor to prevent stuff like this happening. 

Baseball has had some serious setbacks with Manfred at the helm. Football shares most of the money, blah, blah. Baseball has tried a number of ways to help smaller markets but it isn't necessarily the market that causes a problem. Stadiums, ownership, and media contracts have left us with some rotting franchises.

Tampa Bay is a large thriving market with a team in an unfortunate location and owners who rightfully (to an extent) just seem to wait out the Trop contract. Maybe Florida cannot support an MLB team, but the Rays should not receive money unless it is earmarked for players and that will not happen. 

Oakland is not the pit of the world but their stadium is in a difficult space and their owner has a vision that only he has seen. Another team in a large market that is taking up space but not contributing in the fashion commensurate with their area. Maybe Oakland should just move to Portland. 

There are a host of small issues to address this winter between owners and players. A hard ceiling (suggest $220 million) and a hard floor (suggest $100 million) seem like a beginning. Owners did quite well when players made nearly 54% of revenue (Forbes) and this has gone down since 2017 and 2018. Players can get a DH in both leagues and keep the 26th man on the roster (I prefer 25). The owners would suffer no loss to reduce free agency requirements by a year and eliminate the compensation. Most of these issues are really smaller than they appear because any ownership group will adjust their spending to suit their needs, preferences, budget, and plans. It is not like any owners will go bankrupt once they are accepted into MLB. The CBA needs to grow the game not reduce the appeal. Oakland and their current shenanigans are just the latest example of some systemic problems with MLB.

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

What possible motive does Oakland have to cut their payroll by 50%? Other than padding the owner’s pockets. MLB badly needs a salary floor to prevent stuff like this happening. 

That's exactly what Houston did.  The function / logic is to trade away assets that can't resign just as Tampa and Oakland have done for several years.  It's proven quite effective for Oakland and Tampa and even large market teams have employed this strategy (see Mookie Betts) .  When small market teams are forced to do this if they are to rebuild a winner.  Within this strategy it is necessary to give roster spots to players who can be part of their future.  It would appear you think they should be forced to sign free agents so that their payroll remains at what you think is an acceptable level.  That strategy impedes the teams ability to develop players to lead them back to contention.  What did people around here demand quite aggressively.  They asked for the prospects to be played because they were motivated to audition players.  That's their motive.

[tony&rodney]

4 hours ago, beckmt said:

Try Larnach, Rooker, duran, Enlow.  it may be an overpay, but probably closer to what Oakland could use. 

Do it today.

[Vanimal46]

44 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

That's exactly what Houston did.  The function / logic is to trade away assets that can't resign just as Tampa and Oakland have done for several years.  It's proven quite effective for Oakland and Tampa and even large market teams have employed this strategy (see Mookie Betts) .  When small market teams are forced to do this if they are to rebuild a winner.  Within this strategy it is necessary to give roster spots to players who can be part of their future.  It would appear you think they should be forced to sign free agents so that their payroll remains at what you think is an acceptable level.  That strategy impedes the teams ability to develop players to lead them back to contention.  What did people around here demand quite aggressively.  They asked for the prospects to be played because they were motivated to audition players.  That's their motive.

Never said anything of the sort. Please stop making these assumptions. Nothing has changed between the upcoming year and previous years for them to cut their payroll by 50% willingly. They’re more than capable of retaining players that have made them competitive in recent years. 

On a separate note, being a Tampa and Oakland fan would be horrible. You get to know up and coming players then they’re traded within 5 years. No wonder why their attendance is always in the bottom 5 of the league. 

[Vanimal46]

57 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Baseball has had some serious setbacks with Manfred at the helm. Football shares most of the money, blah, blah. Baseball has tried a number of ways to help smaller markets but it isn't necessarily the market that causes a problem. Stadiums, ownership, and media contracts have left us with some rotting franchises.

Tampa Bay is a large thriving market with a team in an unfortunate location and owners who rightfully (to an extent) just seem to wait out the Trop contract. Maybe Florida cannot support an MLB team, but the Rays should not receive money unless it is earmarked for players and that will not happen. 

Oakland is not the pit of the world but their stadium is in a difficult space and their owner has a vision that only he has seen. Another team in a large market that is taking up space but not contributing in the fashion commensurate with their area. Maybe Oakland should just move to Portland. 

There are a host of small issues to address this winter between owners and players. A hard ceiling (suggest $220 million) and a hard floor (suggest $100 million) seem like a beginning. Owners did quite well when players made nearly 54% of revenue (Forbes) and this has gone down since 2017 and 2018. Players can get a DH in both leagues and keep the 26th man on the roster (I prefer 25). The owners would suffer no loss to reduce free agency requirements by a year and eliminate the compensation. Most of these issues are really smaller than they appear because any ownership group will adjust their spending to suit their needs, preferences, budget, and plans. It is not like any owners will go bankrupt once they are accepted into MLB. The CBA needs to grow the game not reduce the appeal. Oakland and their current shenanigans are just the latest example of some systemic problems with MLB.

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I agree there are 2 rotting franchises, and ironically get mentioned time and time again on this site as success stories. 

In regards to Oakland, it’s no secret their stadium is a dump and has been for some time. There hasn’t been any real momentum on building a new one in 20 years. Instead of MLB sitting back and allowing both Tampa and Oakland to tear down their teams every 3-4 years, they should step in and set an ultimatum. Either get a new stadium deal complete, or we’ll relocate the team to Las Vegas/Nashville/Charlotte, etc the following year. 

[glunn]

On 11/11/2021 at 1:43 PM, LuckyLarry65 said:

I'm a fan of it IF we could keep Arraez and find someone else to include.  Montas and Manaea could really help the Twins.

Welcome to Twins Daily!

[Greglw3]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:44 PM, brockbesler said:

How about this.

Twins get:

Montas

Manaea

Andrus

 

A’s get

Arraez

Larnach

Cavaco

Enlow

 

According to mlb trade sim this is a slight overpay for the Twins, but I think taking on Andrus salary would really entice the A’s.

 

I think the A’s need a bit more because Arraez is the only sure thing. If Larnach was more experienced and done a bit more it might be more even. Aiming at those 2 pitchers is a really good idea. I think they would need a Sands Balazovic or Duran. Separately, I want to sign Mark Canha who has speed and power to play LF with Buxton in CF and Kirilloff in RF. That would be a contending OF.

[darin617]

6 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

What possible motive does Oakland have to cut their payroll by 50%? Other than padding the owner’s pockets. MLB badly needs a salary floor to prevent stuff like this happening. 

They are just trying to do whatever they can for Oakland to lose interest in them so they can go to Las Vegas.  Pretty sad when a team with so much his history will be moving soon.