And the season comes to an end.

[cHawk]

73-89. Seventy-three and eighty-nine. Last place.

How many wins did we expect? ~90 is the answer to that question. Ninety.

I think that says it all about this season. The year where nothing went right. The year the pitching staff fell apart.

[tony&rodney]

The Twins played competitively, for the most part, from August to today. This is something, although it does fall well  short of the 85 wins I expected so it is totally understandable that Twins fans are disappointed in this season. Now 2021 is in the books and it is time to turn to 2022.

[Nine of twelve]

12 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

The Twins played competitively, for the most part, from August to today. This is something, although it does fall well  short of the 85 wins I expected so it is totally understandable that Twins fans are disappointed in this season. Now 2021 is in the books and it is time to turn to 2022.

They played competitively for most of the season. There was the season-killing stretch in April and May when they went 9-26. They were 64-63 otherwise. Had they not gone through that horrid time the front office would have done things much differently and that 64-63 might have been even better.

[Brandon]

9 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

They played competitively for most of the season. There was the season-killing stretch in April and May when they went 9-26. They were 64-63 otherwise. Had they not gone through that horrid time the front office would have done things much differently and that 64-63 might have been even better.

I will also add they didn't quit like past teams.  and that is something I appreciate.  while I am not happy with their record I am happy they went 6-4 their last 10 games to avoid 90 losses.  This gave us something to root for the last week.  Also I think with better health on offense and continued development and no more covid shut downs in the minors we should be back to winning around 90 games next year.  

 

[Nine of twelve]

24 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I will also add they didn't quit like past teams.  and that is something I appreciate.  while I am not happy with their record I am happy they went 6-4 their last 10 games to avoid 90 losses.  This gave us something to root for the last week.  Also I think with better health on offense and continued development and no more covid shut downs in the minors we should be back to winning around 90 games next year.  

 

This, and getting a pitcher or two.

[LastOnePicked]

46 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I am happy they went 6-4 their last 10 games to avoid 90 losses.  This gave us something to root for the last week.

Part of me agrees, and part of me thinks that's a clear sign we're sliding back into an era of diminished expectations. They were the third-worst team in the AL in 2021. That's beyond terrible for a team expected by most to win the division. Some big changes better be coming, and we fans better demand that the FO follows through on all their big talk about "retooling not rebuilding."

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, LastOnePicked said:

Part of me agrees, and part of me thinks that's a clear sign we're sliding back into an era of diminished expectations. They were the third-worst team in the AL in 2021. That's beyond terrible for a team expected by most to win the division. Some big changes better be coming, and we fans better demand that the FO follows through on all their big talk about "retooling not rebuilding."

I guess I see that the fall happened in April and May.  There were adjustments made and yes we need more help, but at this point its just a few players.  We need a good SS and 2 starters and a reliever.  Beyond that we should be set.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

2 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

The Twins played competitively, for the most part, from August to today. This is something, although it does fall well  short of the 85 wins I expected so it is totally understandable that Twins fans are disappointed in this season. Now 2021 is in the books and it is time to turn to 2022.

Wait til next year.

[gunnarthor]

I'm quite worried that the idea that "we weren't that bad after mid-May" wins out and we deceive ourselves on how bad this team was. 8th worst record in all baseball, 3rd worse in AL. They need to somehow figure out how to get a pitching staff that can cover 1500 or so innings and they have basically nothing to rely on right now. Essentially, ownership has to step up and pay big in free agency. If not, the Twins should just blow it all up, trade everyone with any value, and look forward to 2024.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Ugh !

[stringer bell]

44 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I'm quite worried that the idea that "we weren't that bad after mid-May" wins out and we deceive ourselves on how bad this team was. 8th worst record in all baseball, 3rd worse in AL. They need to somehow figure out how to get a pitching staff that can cover 1500 or so innings and they have basically nothing to rely on right now. Essentially, ownership has to step up and pay big in free agency. If not, the Twins should just blow it all up, trade everyone with any value, and look forward to 2024.

Looking at run differential and where they ended in most team stats, I think the Twins pretty much got the record they deserved. I'll repeat my observation that just about anything that could have gone wrong did and at the worst possible moment early in the season. But over the course of the year, it seemed that things evened out. 

There is a lot of work to be done. The club needs to rebuild their starting rotation, fill about half of the bullpen and find a shortstop who can make the plays in the field and isn't at the bottom of hitting statistics. Moreover, I think the club has way to many guys whose calling card is hitting homers and too few that are good at making contact and being as asset in the field and on the bases. 

With a little tweaking, I think the Twins can be at or above .500, but in order to challenge for post season play, they need to augment their pitching staff and add quality at shortstop.

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

We need a good SS and 2 starters and a reliever.

This is what we needed in the 2020-21 offseason, and this FO couldn't deliver. Now the SS need is even greater and 3-4 starters are needed. I appreciate positivity, but the hole we're in is a lot deeper than folks think.

[Mark G]

34 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

This is what we needed in the 2020-21 offseason, and this FO couldn't deliver. Now the SS need is even greater and 3-4 starters are needed. I appreciate positivity, but the hole we're in is a lot deeper than folks think.

Agreed.  And I have my doubts, after 2 years in a row of pretty steep losses and a new CBA coming with no known additional costs there, that JP will spend what it takes for these needs.  I fear another trip down the discount aisle this winter and another tryout camp in spring training.  Here's hoping the discounts are good and the tryouts are a pleasant surprise.  

[wsnydes]

9 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

I'm quite worried that the idea that "we weren't that bad after mid-May" wins out and we deceive ourselves on how bad this team was. 8th worst record in all baseball, 3rd worse in AL. They need to somehow figure out how to get a pitching staff that can cover 1500 or so innings and they have basically nothing to rely on right now. Essentially, ownership has to step up and pay big in free agency. If not, the Twins should just blow it all up, trade everyone with any value, and look forward to 2024.

I don't think that just because one acknowledges that they weren't that bad after mid-May, that it means that that line of logic carries into next season.  They played one game below .500 since their low point mid-May, IIRC.  That's not great, I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise.  Considering everything that happened to this team, there is some positivity related to that.  However, that obviously doesn't give them a pass going into next season.  Clearly they have work to do heading into next season.  

[Platoon]

This is a team that wins when it hits HR’s and struggles to score when it doesn’t. It’s still a team loaded with corner power guys, and with the exception of Buxton, nothing to speak of defensively in the middle. The rotation is made up of #3 and #4 starters at best and while the bullpen has had a small run, it’s not noted for shutdown talent, and still has no "closer". That and a serious disregard for fundamentals doesn’t bode well. 
 

The Twins didn’t finish last by mistake. Our preseason optimism was based on the 2019 career year, year. And getting to play within the always competitive Central Division in 2020. It now continues with the hope for 2 or 3 SP, a few BP arms and a Good defensive SS who can hit. Fortunately no one else needs any of these talents, so an over winter rebuild should be good to go. That and JP’s long held policy of giving the FO any resources they need to succeed make me very optimistic for next year! 
 

 

[Mark G]

  Every observation you made has merit except, in my extremely humble opinion, SS.  We were actually strong up the middle defensively, as Simmons is above average and he makes Polanco better by allowing him to play a position he is better at than SS.  Hitting comes and goes with most players, having good years and bad as you go through a career; how many times did we rave about Buxton's defense while wishing he could hit more?  It is too bad that Simmons had his down year on a one year contract with a new team, but it was likely just that - a bad year in the course of a career.  The defense we thought we were getting we got, and personally, I don't think Simmons was the worst problem on our long list.  Personally, I can live with a .223 hitting SS with a +14 rtot (highest on the team among regulars).   Other than that, I would agree with the entire brilliant post.  

[MABB1959]

Beside the record (so sad), some of the other frustrations that add on to the disappointment in no particular order:

Lack of a consistent line-up.  Maybe an old fashioned fan but it is fun to know the players.  Besides Buxton and Sano I don't think I would recognize any other player if I walked right past them.

Ability to watch games (greedy owners IMO).  I have DishTv so that is not totally their fault but you would think the greedy owners could have stepped in to prevent Dish and others dropping Bally's.  

Nothing from the Pohlad's this season that I can remember but I can't read but one article on the Star Tribune and now the Pioneer press has joined it. 

Watching the news this morning and granted it is football Monday but not a mention about the Twins winning or wrapping up their season.

Trading away Berrios and I am going to say the upcoming trade of Buxton.  I don't think it will happen in the off-season because it may have a huge effect on season ticket sales.

Not looking forward to a 10 year rebuild again.  Can't even say "wait until next season" as this was that season.

Edit to add:  I did find something from the Jim Pohlad but it only made me feel worse.  What team was he watching?  Charley Walters: Jim Pohlad still rates Twins’ brain trust ‘A-plus’ – Twin Cities

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MABB1959]

42 minutes ago, Platoon said:

The Twins didn’t finish last by mistake. Our preseason optimism was based on the 2019 career year, year. And getting to play within the always competitive Central Division in 2020. It now continues with the hope for 2 or 3 SP, a few BP arms and a Good defensive SS who can hit. Fortunately no one else needs any of these talents, so an over winter rebuild should be good to go. That and JP’s long held policy of giving the FO any resources they need to succeed make me very optimistic for next year! 

I just wrote and almost opposite opinion.  Fun how different people see things.  The one thing that jumped out in your comment was the always competitive Central Division.  I don't see it that way.   Seems to me it is the easiest division with only one team over .500 and a good 12+ games out of the WC for all teams. 

[terrydactyls]

11 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

I'm quite worried that the idea that "we weren't that bad after mid-May" wins out and we deceive ourselves on how bad this team was. 8th worst record in all baseball, 3rd worse in AL. They need to somehow figure out how to get a pitching staff that can cover 1500 or so innings and they have basically nothing to rely on right now. Essentially, ownership has to step up and pay big in free agency. If not, the Twins should just blow it all up, trade everyone with any value, and look forward to 2024.

And who were the three big spenders last off season - the darlings of the hot stove league?  Philadelphia, Toronto, and San Diego.  How many made the playoffs?  None!  Money apparently doesn't buy happiness or a division winning team.  Make smart moves, not expensive moves.

[cHawk]

11 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

And who were the three big spenders last off season - the darlings of the hot stove league?  Philadelphia, Toronto, and San Diego.  How many made the playoffs?  None!  Money apparently doesn't buy happiness or a division winning team.  Make smart moves, not expensive moves.

This. Exactly this. There’s a reason the Rays are in the playoffs and the Mets and Padres are not.

[Vanimal46]

Pre-season, 90 wins was a common win total not just for fans, but publications around the league. It’s amazing that the Twins only provided one week of hope for making the playoffs. They started 5-2, overcoming some shaky play, then the wheels flew off. This game against the A’s sticks out as the most frustrating game in the season:

Twins @ A’s April 21, 2021
 

You knew things weren’t going to go our way after blowing 5 leads in that game. Whether we want to admit it or not, they were out of it by May 1, which made this an extremely long season. 

[cHawk]

8 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Pre-season, 90 wins was a common win total not just for fans, but publications around the league. It’s amazing that the Twins only provided one week of hope for making the playoffs. They started 5-2, overcoming some shaky play, then the wheels flew off. This game against the A’s sticks out as the most frustrating game in the season:

Twins @ A’s April 21, 2021
 

You knew things weren’t going to go our way after blowing 5 leads in that game. Whether we want to admit it or not, they were out of it by May 1, which made this an extremely long season. 

5 leads? Damn. Never realized that.

[Karbo]

What a season. How much more could go wrong in 1 season. From the front office missing so badly on FA picks Happ, Shoemaker, Colome, and Simmons, Maeda going down, Pineda missing time, so many relievers struggling, Buxton missing so much time again, I go keep going on and on. So in my mind hopefully we got the bad luck out of the way this year so next year will be better. After all, The FO has to do better in FA pick ups, They darn well better work out something with Buxton. At least we discovered Baily can pitch, and the silver lining in losing is we picked up some nice pieces in trades. Now lets see what happens with the new CB talks and hope we have baseball on time next spring!

[Vanimal46]

8 minutes ago, cHawk said:

5 leads? Damn. Never realized that.

That game truly had it all. Kenta Maeda’s worst start of his career, a red hot Byron Buxton at the plate and spectacular diving catch, a ball getting stuck in Donaldson’s glove, a hobbled Nellie Cruz, Colomé blowing 2 leads, and back to back errors to lose the game. 

[Platoon]

2 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

I just wrote and almost opposite opinion.  Fun how different people see things.  The one thing that jumped out in your comment was the always competitive Central Division.  I don't see it that way.   Seems to me it is the easiest division with only one team over .500 and a good 12+ games out of the WC for all teams. 

Ouch!  "Always competitive Central Division"………. My sarcasm needs to be more focused? I had intended to point out that the School Sisters of Notre Dames team wasn’t in the Central last year due to Covid restrictions, but thought that a bridge too far. I may have to reevaluate?  Lol. 
 

The "always competitive Central" is one of our problems since so little needs to be done to be competitive in that division, and this year we succeeded beyond expectations in the "so little" part!  ???

[KirbyDome89]

16 hours ago, Brandon said:

I guess I see that the fall happened in April and May.  There were adjustments made and yes we need more help, but at this point its just a few players.  We need a good SS and 2 starters and a reliever.  Beyond that we should be set.

They still finished 7 games below .500 from June 1st through yesterday. I don't see moving from a 100+ loss pace to one in the high 80s as a silver lining. They were just as bad in June, and worse in July. They sunk themselves in April & May, but the poor play didn't stop there. 

[Mike Sixel]

15 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

This is what we needed in the 2020-21 offseason, and this FO couldn't deliver. Now the SS need is even greater and 3-4 starters are needed. I appreciate positivity, but the hole we're in is a lot deeper than folks think.

They signed who was supposed to be one of the better SS, and he failed. NO ONE could have predicted he'd be that bad. Also, their superstar SS in the minors got hurt, no one could have predicted that. Every AA/AAA prospect projected to be good in the majors this year, but Ober, got hurt. Sometimes it isn't anyone's fault......

[Mike Sixel]

6 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

Beside the record (so sad), some of the other frustrations that add on to the disappointment in no particular order:

Lack of a consistent line-up.  Maybe an old fashioned fan but it is fun to know the players.  Besides Buxton and Sano I don't think I would recognize any other player if I walked right past them.

Ability to watch games (greedy owners IMO).  I have DishTv so that is not totally their fault but you would think the greedy owners could have stepped in to prevent Dish and others dropping Bally's.  

Nothing from the Pohlad's this season that I can remember but I can't read but one article on the Star Tribune and now the Pioneer press has joined it. 

Watching the news this morning and granted it is football Monday but not a mention about the Twins winning or wrapping up their season.

Trading away Berrios and I am going to say the upcoming trade of Buxton.  I don't think it will happen in the off-season because it may have a huge effect on season ticket sales.

Not looking forward to a 10 year rebuild again.  Can't even say "wait until next season" as this was that season.

Edit to add:  I did find something from the Jim Pohlad but it only made me feel worse.  What team was he watching?  Charley Walters: Jim Pohlad still rates Twins’ brain trust ‘A-plus’ – Twin Cities

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Giants won, partially, because they played matchups better than anyone....in other words, not consistent lineups.

[Mike Sixel]

5 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

And who were the three big spenders last off season - the darlings of the hot stove league?  Philadelphia, Toronto, and San Diego.  How many made the playoffs?  None!  Money apparently doesn't buy happiness or a division winning team.  Make smart moves, not expensive moves.

Ya, Toronto totally didn't get better. None of the playoff teams spent in the top half of payroll. 

How did not spending money work out for the bad teams?

We agree, you need to make smart decisions. But spending money on the right players is a smart decision.

[LastOnePicked]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

They signed who was supposed to be one of the better SS, and he failed. NO ONE could have predicted he'd be that bad. Also, their superstar SS in the minors got hurt, no one could have predicted that. Every AA/AAA prospect projected to be good in the majors this year, but Ober, got hurt. Sometimes it isn't anyone's fault......

No one can predict anything in baseball, I think everyone agrees and understands that. The issue is who is better at educated guessing. For example, whose instincts and research pushed hard for signing Semien, and whose instincts and research led to signing Simmons? Which FO saw more promise in Ray and Rodon, and which chose Happ and Shoemaker instead? 

I never expect a FO to accurately predict every outcome. What worries me is when the poor guesses vastly outweigh the good guesses. It's a signal that their instincts or research isn't very good, or their luck is terrible. Either way - if that's the case here - I don't want them making decisions for my favorite team.

But I'm beating a dead horse. I'll say it one last time here: I'd fire this FO immediately and start a fresh offseason for the organization. My own personal guess is that this would get the team a lot closer to contention in the near future, and would stop the talent loss.