Game Score: Yankees 6, Twins 5

[MinnInPa]

just pathetic how the Twins just roll over when its the arrogant Yankees.. you just new it would turn into a loss somehow...and c'Mon ...you do not give JugHead a pitch to hit out of the park Colome'  !!! And Duffy....borderline pitch there..should have thrown the fast ball and just maybe he hits it right at someone..or whiffs....but never ever ever do you walk Gardner there. But, where were the Twins bats for the last 8 innings ???? PATHETIC to keep losing to those fools

[Mark G]

19 minutes ago, MinnInPa said:

just pathetic how the Twins just roll over when its the arrogant Yankees.. you just new it would turn into a loss somehow...and c'Mon ...you do not give JugHead a pitch to hit out of the park Colome'  !!! And Duffy....borderline pitch there..should have thrown the fast ball and just maybe he hits it right at someone..or whiffs....but never ever ever do you walk Gardner there. But, where were the Twins bats for the last 8 innings ???? PATHETIC to keep losing to those fools

Right on.  Once again, all runs on home runs; keep it in the ballpark and we are impotent.   0-9 with a runner on 2nd the last 3 extra innings; guaranteed to lose.  

[Trov]

14 hours ago, Yawn Gardenhose said:

Ball four to Gardner was not a strike. The problem here is that people treat the Bally Sports box as if it were drawn by God. From the MLB rule book: "The Strike Zone is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the top of the knees. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball." Which means, first of all, that the strike zone is variable from batter to batter, not a static unchanging box superimposed by a cable network. And in this case, ball four landed around Gardner's shoulders, not a strike. That's a big unaddressed problem with robot umps, in my view - is the strike zone going to be static or variable by batter? Seems like a nuance that technology might make worse rather than make better.  

In Loserville USA, er - Minnesota, rather,  players and teams take these "aggregious calls" and turn them into the reasons that they lose. Not, hey, let's not give up three-run homers late in ballgames, but "the damn umps! Grr! They're out to get us!" Between Duffey's infantile tantrum, Rockhead's mealy-mouthed "why can't you be like robots!" to Morneau's constant, year-long bitching and moaning about calls that go against the Twins (and silence when "bad calls" go the Twins favor), it's just so delicious. They made the decision to lose that ballgame once Nelson called it ball four. The "righteous" anger feels better for them than winning a game in New York for the second time in 24 games or whatever the pathetic streak is at now. 

Truly classic stuff. 

The electronic zone does change based on the hitter and is not a static zone.  It is also used to grade umpires on their calls by MLB.  If MLB uses the system to determine if the ump is doing well at calling balls and strikes why do they not use it to actually call balls and strikes?  

There was a study done several years ago, and it showed that one, umpires got the borderline calls right about 50%, so better than a coin toss.  Two, it showed that on those calls if they had called it prior, they were less likely to call it again.  Also, more umps were less likely to call them for a third strike.  

What the study showed was umps would think about the count, the situation, and history to make the calls.  It is one of the hardest jobs in the world to do, but the league could take those human elements out of the game and get the right call all the time.  It will happen one day, I just hope sooner than later.  If it is a strike it should be called that way, no matter the score, the count, home team, the hitter or the pitcher.  None of that should influence the call, but studies show it does. 

[Mark G]

6 minutes ago, Trov said:

The electronic zone does change based on the hitter and is not a static zone.  It is also used to grade umpires on their calls by MLB.  If MLB uses the system to determine if the ump is doing well at calling balls and strikes why do they not use it to actually call balls and strikes?  

There was a study done several years ago, and it showed that one, umpires got the borderline calls right about 50%, so better than a coin toss.  Two, it showed that on those calls if they had called it prior, they were less likely to call it again.  Also, more umps were less likely to call them for a third strike.  

What the study showed was umps would think about the count, the situation, and history to make the calls.  It is one of the hardest jobs in the world to do, but the league could take those human elements out of the game and get the right call all the time.  It will happen one day, I just hope sooner than later.  If it is a strike it should be called that way, no matter the score, the count, home team, the hitter or the pitcher.  None of that should influence the call, but studies show it does. 

Absolutely!  Very good observation.  

[Mark G]

1 hour ago, Whitey333 said:

First the long winded response to the strike zone is filled with innacuracies and flaws.  Also to the Yankees apologist, even several Yankee players said it was a strike.  We all new it was.  It passed the eye test.  Umps miss calls.  Jeff Nelson is just an average umpire.  Umps should be held accountable for blown calls.  Ball and strike calls have a huge impact on the game.  The zone floats most of the game.  It's just amazing how it seems to float in Yankees favor.  I'm sure the umpires and MLB is very happy to make sure the Yankees win.  Truth of matter is Colome' blew it and umpire Nelson had no guts to call a strike out in Yankee stadium.  Pathetic

I have always had my doubts about Jeff Nelson.  He grades out alright overall, but he is a St. Paul boy, and has appeared to be afraid to be seen as a home town ump when umping the Twins.  I am not in his head, but he appears to bend over backwards to not appear to favor his hometown team; it shows much of the time, and has for many years.  

[Aggies7]

A probably gassed Duffey was a better option than bringing in colome and the 89 MPH cutter he throws every single pitch

[Dodecahedron]

When the Twins play the Yankees, the umpire has been the 26th/27th man on the Yankees roster for a heck of a long time.  

I would hope the owners of the Twins have spoken up about this to the league at some point.  If not, now's a good time.

[RpR]

I have read in baseball news high-lights that umpires with supposed game changing obtuse calls is not rare nor aimed at the Twins only.

[rickyriolo]

October 2009 Yankee stadium ....and  a FAIR BALL hit down the left line by Joe Mauer going to be a double...Sorry foul ball ruled by the umpire,,,..tough to beat the Yankees and the umpires @ Yankee stadium UGH  

[LastOnePicked]

3 hours ago, Mark G said:

We are 18 games UNDER .500 and all we do is look at the minor leaguers and estimate how they would do in the lineup next year.

Thank you. And yes, we've already had three major Twins Daily posts about how the FO deserves more slack and patience, which I find a little bit funny.

To be fair, I also find it fairly laudable and noble. There is something to trying to see the best in others and hoping that something good will come out of something bad. But I do wonder when this seemingly-endless patience for failure is gong to run out around here. 

And I do kinda wonder if the heat that Yankees fans put on their FO doesn't at least sharpen their moves a bit and keep the team generally competitive. We often perform according to the expectations others have for us.

[MinnInPa]

4 hours ago, Mark G said:

Right on.  Once again, all runs on home runs; keep it in the ballpark and we are impotent.   0-9 with a runner on 2nd the last 3 extra innings; guaranteed to lose.  

so hard to watch this team all year..what in the H happened to Kepler??? i believe the top 4 in the order is very good now..using Arreaz, Polanco, Buxton and Donaldson -  next year maybe follow up with Kirilloff , Garver.... then Sano...then it gets depressing with Cave, Refsnyder(who is regressing as fast as he rose), Simmons, Larnach is nothing but a K King..Celestino, wont be ready,,,, May have to find a place for Miranda next year . But most of all we will need a #1 , # 2 , # 3 Starting Pitchers..next year ill take Pineda, Ober as 4,5..but we cant count on Jax or Gant as # 3.. Then we need massive help at the back end of BullPen

 

 

[MinnInPa]

Just now, MinnInPa said:

so hard to watch this team all year..what in the H happened to Kepler??? i believe the top 4 in the order is very good now..using Arreaz, Polanco, Buxton and Donaldson -  next year maybe follow up with Kirilloff , Garver.... then Sano...then it gets depressing with Cave, Refsnyder(who is regressing as fast as he rose), Simmons, Larnach is nothing but a K King..Celestino, wont be ready,,,, May have to find a place for Miranda next year . But most of all we will need a #1 , # 2 , # 3 Starting Pitchers..next year ill take Pineda, Ober as 4,5..but we cant count on Jax or Gant as # 3.. Then we need massive help at the back end of BullPen

 

 

sorry ..forgot about Joe Ryan..he could be the # 3

[FritzDahmus]

20 hours ago, Danchat said:

That's it... I might just bet on a sports game for the first time in 2022 and put money on the Yankees every single time they play the Twins. Either I will make a profit since the Twins are guaranteed to poop themselves every time they play New York, or I will break the Twins' horrible streak by losing money. A win-win, perhaps.

That's a good play, even though you'll have to bet $170 just to win $100 [on a typical Twins/Yankee game] Not exactly betting on the long shot.

So what is the front office doing to overcome this glaring roadblock to any playoff success?? Trade away players for trash......who will be traded away if they do not become trash. So either way....trash. But hey....are all the Twins vaccinated?? That's the important question for this site.

[Steve Lein]

9 hours ago, Mark G said:

We have the technology to call balls and strikes accurately, and we need to start using it.  Balls and strikes are too much a part of the game, and too important to have as many as we see wrong keep going.  What a pitcher would throw on 1-2 vs. 2-1 can mean everything in too many at bats.   I watch many of the games on the computer where the screen is, and the number that are clearly wrong (both ways) are far too many to continue to tolerate.  

I wish I could find the links, but I read a couple of great articles last year or the year before that had comments from MLB reps and the technology's experts about how the Trackman, Pitch F/X, statcast, etc... technology works, it's current problems, and why it doesn't actually meet standards that the MLB wants to uphold in it's current state.

They're probably getting a lot more good data and improving it more now with the AFL and other leagues adopting it, but the jist of those articles was that the technology is still worse than humans, it gets things wrong consistently. (The Doppler effect, which is what these systems use to measure spin, etc... is not infallible. They don't even get data from multiple pitches every game). I also remember an interesting note for me, was that the transmitters for these systems operate in a frequency band that rain can mess with.

Another thing someone else mentioned, is height of players, which is how MLB's rules determines the strikezone. These systems need to have someone inputting that range for each batter, which is just all kinds of problematic. Does the player have to stand in his stance for 5 seconds before his at-bat starts so the operator can set it right? Is the operator going to input that range perfect for every batter? The answers to questions like these are a resounding "no" for what fans want these systems to do. It's just not possible yet, and human error is still part of the equation.

 

[beckmt]

On 9/13/2021 at 8:13 PM, mnfireman said:

Go look at Baseball Savant, Nelson was inconsistent with close pitches, at best. There were some clearly outside the zone called strikes, and the pitches around the strike zone box were very inconsistent.

The question is not the strike zone, but many of the calls were inconsistent in one direction.

[Otto von Ballpark]

On 9/13/2021 at 4:52 PM, Thiéres Rabelo said:

Brent Gardner “drew a walk” on a ball four that was most certainly a strike (pitch #6 below).

 

FWIW, here's the strike zone plot for that PA in Gameday right now (cue up conspiracy theories):