Ranking the 3 Most Underrated Twins Players

[RpR]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

You "going by what you see" and not "some math nerd numbers" is exactly why we have the "math nerd numbers." When your assessment is that Arraez "too often watches a third strike go by" and he is in the 99th percentile for K% in all of MLB you are literally proving the point that just going by your biased eyes is an awful strategy. You're complaining that a guy who strikes out less than all but 3 guys in baseball let's too many third strikes go by (Arraez strikes out in 10.2% of his ABs, Brantley 10.1, Fletcher 9.2, and Newman 7.3 are the only guys better in all of baseball. Sorry for being so nerdy). That's your complaint right now.

It is not how often , it is too often when the at bat really counts.

[chpettit19]

13 hours ago, RpR said:

It is not how often , it is too often when the at bat really counts.

Name 5 times that he watched a 3rd strike go by "when the at bat really counts." This is exactly why front offices all around the league use the numbers and not just their memory for things like this. Arraez has struck out 43 total times this entire season and you're on here acting like he's watching 3rd strikes go by constantly. Your brain locks in on the moments that created the most emotional reaction for you and that appears to be a called 3rd strike or 2 against Arraez and you've decided one of the 5 hardest guys in baseball to strikeout is striking out too much looking in clutch situations. It's absurd. 

[KBJ1]

My problem with Arraiz is he is a One tool player. Sure he makes contact, but he hasn't Proven to be Tony Gwynn just yet.

He is a mediocre defensive player, has zero speed and a bum knee.

Where are all the 5 tool players in Baseball these days? Buxton, Lindor are among the few left in the game. Granted we need a utility guy, but he cant play short.

Speaking of SS can someone explain why we traded Berrios (who was under contract for 2022) for a SS prospect when our supposed #1 prospect (Lewis) is a SS?

If Trevor is the answer, we better be trading and getting  pitching for Lewis!!

[RpR]

5 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Name 5 times that he watched a 3rd strike go by "when the at bat really counts." This is exactly why front offices all around the league use the numbers and not just their memory for things like this. Arraez has struck out 43 total times this entire season and you're on here acting like he's watching 3rd strikes go by constantly. Your brain locks in on the moments that created the most emotional reaction for you and that appears to be a called 3rd strike or 2 against Arraez and you've decided one of the 5 hardest guys in baseball to strikeout is striking out too much looking in clutch situations. It's absurd. 

Oh, sure I will get out my video of every game, you try too hard.

[chpettit19]

37 minutes ago, RpR said:

Oh, sure I will get out my video of every game, you try too hard.

You're proving my point. Name 2 then. Your memory is no competition for the stats. You've picked a position that is entirely impossible to defend. Your stance is wrong and it's provable. "I feel like" is not a defense against "the physical proof shows." Your opinions aren't a defense against my facts. It's patently absurd to suggest Arraez strikes out too much no matter what variables you want to try to attach to the situation. There's no argument you can make to truly defend your stance beyond "this is how I feel." You're certainly entitled to not like Arraez, not like the type of player he is, feel he's overrated, wish the Twins would trade him, be upset about an instance (or 2) where he was caught looking in a big spot, or anything else along those lines. But when someone is one of the 5 best people on the planet at something you can't say they are bad at that thing. It's simply ridiculous.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

You're proving my point. Name 2 then. Your memory is no competition for the stats. You've picked a position that is entirely impossible to defend. Your stance is wrong and it's provable. "I feel like" is not a defense against "the physical proof shows." Your opinions aren't a defense against my facts. It's patently absurd to suggest Arraez strikes out too much no matter what variables you want to try to attach to the situation. There's no argument you can make to truly defend your stance beyond "this is how I feel." You're certainly entitled to not like Arraez, not like the type of player he is, feel he's overrated, wish the Twins would trade him, be upset about an instance (or 2) where he was caught looking in a big spot, or anything else along those lines. But when someone is one of the 5 best people on the planet at something you can't say they are bad at that thing. It's simply ridiculous.

Astudillo fielding percentage .997  RF/9 9.09  RF/G 7.00  -- Arraez .985  RF/9 3.83  RF/G 3.22

 

Arraez is greatly over rated, I rest my case.

[chpettit19]

40 minutes ago, RpR said:

Astudillo fielding percentage .997  RF/9 9.09  RF/G 7.00  -- Arraez .985  RF/9 3.83  RF/G 3.22

 

Arraez is greatly over rated, I rest my case.

Ah, yes. The old "I was proven wrong on my original argument so I will change it to something completely different" maneuver. It's a classic. I said you're entitled to feel Arraez is overrated. You original argument of him striking out looking in big spots too often was completely absurd, but an argument that he isn't a good defender is absolutely correct. You should've started with that one.

Oh, and I also appreciate you using those "math nerd numbers." Makes me feel right at home.

[RpR]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

Ah, yes. The old "I was proven wrong on my original argument so I will change it to something completely different" maneuver. It's a classic. I said you're entitled to feel Arraez is overrated. You original argument of him striking out looking in big spots too often was completely absurd, but an argument that he isn't a good defender is absolutely correct. You should've started with that one.

I said he was over rated, period,  he is, Twins need defense far more than offense and he is not good but at the in 40 more games than Asudillo he has only 17 more RBI, as I said you try too hard and you are picking nits while say I am picking nits;  as I SAID, HE is GREATLY over rated, or to make you feel better as a whole ballplayer. -- ( In the old days, they would have called him a BANJO HITTER Which was NOT a plus., he reminds me of Lenny Green, without the base stealing ability.)

[chpettit19]

13 hours ago, RpR said:

I said he was over rated, period,  he is, Twins need defense far more than offense and he is not good but at the in 40 more games than Asudillo he has only 17 more RBI, as I said you try too hard and you are picking nits while say I am picking nits;  as I SAID, HE is GREATLY over rated, or to make you feel better as a whole ballplayer. -- ( In the old days, they would have called him a BANJO HITTER Which was NOT a plus., he reminds me of Lenny Green, without the base stealing ability.)

He should remind you of Tony Gwynn, not Lenny Green. You just keep proving more and more that your eyes are entirely unreliable. Lenny Green hit over .290 1 time his entire career and was a career .267 hitter. In 913 career PAs Arraez is a .312 hitter. Gwynn and Arraez both started their major league careers at the age of 22. Now Arraez isn't quite done with his age 24 season, but close enough. And Lenny Green started at age 24 so this is his age 24-26 seasons.

Arraez: .312/.375/.404/.779 6 HRs, 78 RBI, 84 BBs, 83 Ks, 4 SBs
Green: .237/.302/.317/.619 4 HRs, 26 RBI, 31 BBs, 32 Ks, 9 SBs
Gwynn: .329/.382/.415/.797 7 HRs, 125 RBI, 96 BBs, 60 Ks, 48 SBs

One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong. Gwynn obviously had drastically more speed early in his career, but when comparing their hitting skills who does Arraez look more like? Was Gwynn greatly overrated? Again, you're more than welcome to dislike Arraez, but your reasoning (beyond being a bad fielder) is totally and completely inaccurate. He's 14% better than the average hitter even without hitting HRs according to OPS+. wRC+ he's 13% better. He's an above average hitter whether you like how he does it or not. Sorry for using my nerd numbers, but everywhere you turn they're proving your eyes wrong. And in the case of the Lenny Green comparison, drastically wrong.