2021 Vikings Season Thread

[cHawk]

  On 1/5/2022 at 10:40 PM, TheLeviathan said:

If Cleveland is out with Covid, it's not even as good as Udoh.  It's playing Wyatt Davis instead of Dakota freaking Dozier.

There is no sane argument for Dakota Dozier over a third round pick.  None.

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I thought Dozier got cut before the season (?)

[gunnarthor]

  On 1/5/2022 at 7:35 PM, TheLeviathan said:

Disagree.  This gives me even more reason to root for the Bears.  What a stupid approach.

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It's amazing how much the tanking philosophy has ingrained itself into fan bases. I'm not saying you're wrong but the idea of hoping the Chicago Bears (!!) beat the Vikings for draft position, or to start someone who isn't ready, would have blown 16 year old me away.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 1/5/2022 at 11:05 PM, cHawk said:

I thought Dozier got cut before the season (?)

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I think they brought him back.  Maybe I misheard.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 1/5/2022 at 11:26 PM, gunnarthor said:

It's amazing how much the tanking philosophy has ingrained itself into fan bases. I'm not saying you're wrong but the idea of hoping the Chicago Bears (!!) beat the Vikings for draft position, or to start someone who isn't ready, would have blown 16 year old me away.

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What a naive youth you were those many, many, many decades ago......

[Vanimal46]

  On 1/5/2022 at 11:26 PM, gunnarthor said:

It's amazing how much the tanking philosophy has ingrained itself into fan bases. I'm not saying you're wrong but the idea of hoping the Chicago Bears (!!) beat the Vikings for draft position, or to start someone who isn't ready, would have blown 16 year old me away.

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Have no fear. If we lose it’ll be fair and square thanks to Zimmer playing all of our guys. You think Eagles fans care that they actually tanked week 17 last season for better draft position? Once the draft rolls around everyone will forget about it. 

[Danchat]

  On 1/5/2022 at 11:32 PM, TheLeviathan said:

I think they brought him back.  Maybe I misheard.

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He's been on the practice squad the whole season (he was the one who was hospitalized with COVID a month or two ago), and they promoted him when Mason Cole hit the IR.

 

  On 1/5/2022 at 11:26 PM, gunnarthor said:

It's amazing how much the tanking philosophy has ingrained itself into fan bases. I'm not saying you're wrong but the idea of hoping the Chicago Bears (!!) beat the Vikings for draft position, or to start someone who isn't ready, would have blown 16 year old me away.

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Well, if we had lost last year's final and pointless game to the Lions, we would have had a higher draft pick and we likely would have gotten LT Rashawn Slater, a pro bowl level tackle in his rookie year (Darrisaw is decent, but not close to him). I would never expect a team to intentionally try to lose a game, but I don't see the harm against playing some of the younger guys like they did vs the Bears in 2019, when we had a playoff spot locked up. Going by your logic, were the Vikings wrong to play Mannion and the backups in that game?

[RpR]

  On 1/5/2022 at 11:26 PM, gunnarthor said:

It's amazing how much the tanking philosophy has ingrained itself into fan bases. I'm not saying you're wrong but the idea of hoping the Chicago Bears (!!) beat the Vikings for draft position, or to start someone who isn't ready, would have blown 16 year old me away.

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Same people who think there are elves and gold at the end of a rainbow.?

[Mike Sixel]

If people think pick 7 is no more valuable than pick 12, I don't know what to say. Not to mention every later round. It would take at least a second to move from 12 to 7.....

[TheLeviathan]

  On 1/6/2022 at 12:17 AM, Vanimal46 said:

Have no fear. If we lose it’ll be fair and square thanks to Zimmer playing all of our guys. You think Eagles fans care that they actually tanked week 17 last season for better draft position? Once the draft rolls around everyone will forget about it. 

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Wait....you mean the first they traded down with and now have another first this year?  I'm sure Philly fans still lie awake at night in pain about tanking.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 1/6/2022 at 12:43 AM, RpR said:

Same people who think there are elves and gold at the end of a rainbow.?

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The clown fits.  

[TheLeviathan]

  On 1/6/2022 at 12:59 AM, Mike Sixel said:

If people think pick 7 is no more valuable than pick 12, I don't know what to say. Not to mention every later round. It would take at least a second to move from 12 to 7.....

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Winning could drop us even lower.  It's likely a win on Sunday is roughly the price of an additional future 1st round pick.  It can't be overstated how much a meaningless win would hurt this team.

[RpR]

  On 1/6/2022 at 1:11 AM, TheLeviathan said:

Winning could drop us even lower.  It's likely a win on Sunday is roughly the price of an additional future 1st round pick.  It can't be overstated how much a meaningless win would hurt this team.

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Back up that statement, with your proof.

At that, if the Vikings end  up like the Lions for the next 7 years they should have and unbeatable team because all those draft picks will magically put them into the super-bowl; the Lions have done so well with their losing record draft picks.

Of course an empty stadium will mean that team will be in a different town by then.?

[Mike Sixel]

  On 1/6/2022 at 1:43 AM, RpR said:

Back up that statement, with your proof.

At that, if the Vikings end  up like the Lions for the next 7 years they should have and unbeatable team because all those draft picks will magically put them into the super-bowl; the Lions have done so well with their losing record draft picks.

Of course an empty stadium will mean that team will be in a different town by then.?

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That's the cost of moving from 7 to around 1`6. This isn't hard to understand. And your second paragraph? What does that even mean, exactly? Are you arguing earlier picks aren't more likely to be better players? If you are, then you think they should deal their first for a second and fifth?

[TheLeviathan]

  On 1/6/2022 at 1:43 AM, RpR said:

Back up that statement, with your proof.

At that, if the Vikings end  up like the Lions for the next 7 years they should have and unbeatable team because all those draft picks will magically put them into the super-bowl; the Lions have done so well with their losing record draft picks.

Of course an empty stadium will mean that team will be in a different town by then.?

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/dolphins-acquire-no-6-pick-in-2021-draft-from-eagles-in-exchange-for-no-12-plus-

It may surprise you that you and reality are deeply out of touch.

[RpR]

  On 1/6/2022 at 2:25 AM, TheLeviathan said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/dolphins-acquire-no-6-pick-in-2021-draft-from-eagles-in-exchange-for-no-12-plus-

It may surprise you that you and reality are deeply out of touch.

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And the Dolphins have bee SO successful for the past twenty years, haven't they but I am sure that crap-shoot rookie will put them in the Super Bowl, or probably he will be a pie-in-the-sky wonder boy and  they will stay in the toilet bowl.

To cut to the chase, Zimmer said they get paid to play and that is what they are going to do; that part of him I like.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 1/6/2022 at 3:06 AM, RpR said:

And the Dolphins have bee SO successful for the past twenty years, haven't they but I am sure that crap-shoot rookie will put them in the Super Bowl, or probably he will be a pie-in-the-sky wonder boy and  they will stay in the toilet bowl.

To cut to the chase, Zimmer said they get paid to play and that is what they are going to do; that part of him I like.

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You're welcome for the irrefutable proof you ignored in this tangent.

[nicksaviking]

  On 1/5/2022 at 11:26 PM, gunnarthor said:

It's amazing how much the tanking philosophy has ingrained itself into fan bases. I'm not saying you're wrong but the idea of hoping the Chicago Bears (!!) beat the Vikings for draft position, or to start someone who isn't ready, would have blown 16 year old me away.

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I'm not sure when you were 16, but I remember my early teen years being in the same position we are now; hoping the team would can Jerry Burns and find a new coach.  During the Green era, the team was almost always in the playoffs, so yeah, this tanking stuff wasn't happening until this century. To the organization's credit it was pretty much always that way after Bud Grant took over, aside from a stretch in the mid '80's.

  On 1/6/2022 at 3:06 AM, RpR said:

And the Dolphins have bee SO successful for the past twenty years, haven't they but I am sure that crap-shoot rookie will put them in the Super Bowl, or probably he will be a pie-in-the-sky wonder boy and  they will stay in the toilet bowl.

To cut to the chase, Zimmer said they get paid to play and that is what they are going to do; that part of him I like.

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The rookies are getting paid too. Playing to win today will have no impact on winning a Super Bowl. The bottom line is, if the SB is the goal, then they need to play to win in the future. That means getting young guys experience and getting better draft picks has actual benefit. Trying to win this meaningless game has none.

[Danchat]

  On 1/6/2022 at 1:43 AM, RpR said:

Back up that statement, with your proof.

At that, if the Vikings end  up like the Lions for the next 7 years they should have and unbeatable team because all those draft picks will magically put them into the super-bowl; the Lions have done so well with their losing record draft picks.

Of course an empty stadium will mean that team will be in a different town by then.?

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Why haven't the Lions, Browns, or Jets relocated due to being really bad for many years, if not decades in a row?

[diehardtwinsfan]

Mod Note: Let's all take a deep breath and start approaching this with a bit more respect. The bickering back and forth can stop. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

  On 1/5/2022 at 11:26 PM, gunnarthor said:

It's amazing how much the tanking philosophy has ingrained itself into fan bases. I'm not saying you're wrong but the idea of hoping the Chicago Bears (!!) beat the Vikings for draft position, or to start someone who isn't ready, would have blown 16 year old me away.

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Not sure it's tanking. It's a question of development. Could Mond benefit from some snaps in a meaningless game? I'm sure he's not ready. I don't trust Zimmer to develop him, but I suspect Zimmer's criticism is not wrong either. I have a tough time believing that getting some PT on Sunday would be bad for him. It's not like they're handing him the job for 2022.

On the other side, they have to decide if they're going to keep or move on from Cousins. If they move on, a trade makes a lot of sense, and playing Kirk in a meaningless game could have some pretty big repercussions there too. 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

  On 1/6/2022 at 2:06 AM, Mike Sixel said:

That's the cost of moving from 7 to around 1`6. This isn't hard to understand. And your second paragraph? What does that even mean, exactly? Are you arguing earlier picks aren't more likely to be better players? If you are, then you think they should deal their first for a second and fifth?

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We're tracking this over at purple pain. It's not quite that wide of a spread 8 at the highest and 13 at the lowest, but you do have a point here.

[diehardtwinsfan]

  On 1/6/2022 at 12:17 AM, Vanimal46 said:

Have no fear. If we lose it’ll be fair and square thanks to Zimmer playing all of our guys. You think Eagles fans care that they actually tanked week 17 last season for better draft position? Once the draft rolls around everyone will forget about it. 

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Have you followed the Vikings? We always win these games. Remember that meaningless game that AP tore his ACL in? We lose that game, we get the 2 pick which the WFT trades a bazzillion picks for to get RG3...

So yeah, we win, and someone is out in 2022. That's Vikings football. 

[nicksaviking]

  On 1/6/2022 at 10:33 PM, diehardtwinsfan said:

We're tracking this over at purple pain. It's not quite that wide of a spread 8 at the highest and 13 at the lowest, but you do have a point here.

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To move up from 13 to 8 is worth at least a 3rd round pick right? The Bears gave up a future 1, 4 and current year 5 to go from 20 to 11.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 1/6/2022 at 11:40 PM, nicksaviking said:

To move up from 13 to 8 is worth at least a 3rd round pick right? The Bears gave up a future 1, 4 and current year 5 to go from 20 to 11.

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It's probably a one.  At worst it's a 2nd rounder and probably a future 3 or 4 to make that jump.

[nicksaviking]

  On 1/7/2022 at 3:03 AM, TheLeviathan said:

It's probably a one.  At worst it's a 2nd rounder and probably a future 3 or 4 to make that jump.

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Right, so in other words, it's kind of a big deal.

Though winning helps Zimmer pad his resume AND may end up helping his new organization that he is DC on next year.

[diehardtwinsfan]

  On 1/6/2022 at 11:40 PM, nicksaviking said:

To move up from 13 to 8 is worth at least a 3rd round pick right? The Bears gave up a future 1, 4 and current year 5 to go from 20 to 11.

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To be fair, a lot has to go right to get 8 or even 9. But yeah, there's some value there, I wouldn't argue that.  To me though, it really comes down to how you use a lost game. Do you play the starters and try to win, or do you accept it for what it is and give the younger players some playing time and a chance to develop. That's technically tanking, but I also think it's the right answer and not even close. The draft spot is potentially a consolation prize. 

[nicksaviking]

I don't think playing the young guys instead of the vets is tanking any more than I think TB cutting Antonio Brown, one of their best players, is tanking. The moves are in the best interest of the team. I think there's a difference between intentionally losing  (tanking) and intentionally trying to get better for next year.

To me tanking would be if Cousins was starting, absolutely tore up the Bears, then they pulled him for Mannion in the 4th Q in a tight game to make sure they lost.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 1/7/2022 at 6:19 PM, nicksaviking said:

I don't think playing the young guys instead of the vets is tanking any more than I think TB cutting Antonio Brown, one of their best players, is tanking. The moves are in the best interest of the team. I think there's a difference between intentionally losing  (tanking) and intentionally trying to get better for next year.

To me tanking would be if Cousins was starting, absolutely tore up the Bears, then they pulled him for Mannion in the 4th Q in a tight game to make sure they lost.

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100% this.

[gunnarthor]

  On 1/7/2022 at 6:19 PM, nicksaviking said:

I don't think playing the young guys instead of the vets is tanking any more than I think TB cutting Antonio Brown, one of their best players, is tanking. The moves are in the best interest of the team. I think there's a difference between intentionally losing  (tanking) and intentionally trying to get better for next year.

To me tanking would be if Cousins was starting, absolutely tore up the Bears, then they pulled him for Mannion in the 4th Q in a tight game to make sure they lost.

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I think tanking is not trying to win the game. Can be done a lot of ways - play players out of position, don't play your best players or put in players who aren't ready, use only a small part of your game plan, etc. Vikings weren't tanking when they inserted Darrisaw into the starting lineup but probably would be if they inserted Mond. 

But to each his own, perhaps. 

[gunnarthor]

Nagy is a bad, bad coach.