Randy Dobnak and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Season

[Dodecahedron]

  On 9/8/2021 at 3:49 PM, Minny505 said:

Bonus points for using the word "abstrusity". Thank you for introducing that one to my lexicon.

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I was trying to find a word to describe the sheer terror of knowing we will all be subjected to this same conversation for the next several years.  I'm not sure I found the exact word, but I at least found an evocative word. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

  On 9/8/2021 at 3:59 PM, KirbyDome89 said:

I really don't understand the usage argument. The guy did almost the exact same thing in '19, coming off an entire summer of starting. Suddenly a handful of starts in ST and subsequent move to the bullpen derails him? Eh....color me skeptical. 

As far as injury goes, if we want to erase the two games in TX, even the Yankees game (though I'd argue he was already getting bludgeoned prior to the nail tearing) we can, but the overall picture isn't any prettier. 

I think the issue with Dobnak has been......Dobnak. 

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That's entirely possible, my main point is that he was jerked around enough that he deserves a real, healthy look before making any decisions.

[KirbyDome89]

  On 9/8/2021 at 5:19 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

That's entirely possible, my main point is that he was jerked around enough that he deserves a real, healthy look before making any decisions.

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Idk if I'd say he's been jerked around. Bullpen innings (in fairness, struggles too) aren't uncommon early in starters careers. If the Twins staff wasn't a total dumpster fire this year, or they weren't starved for even mediocre internal options to start games, are they handing him that extension, or letting him rack up 40+ IP of pretty awful baseball this season? He pitched himself out of the rotation last year, albeit in a short/weird season, and he hasn't shown anything this year to suggest that wasn't the right move.

Look, I'm not saying they need to give up on him, but we can reel it in a bit on Dobnak.

[Doctor Gast]

  On 9/7/2021 at 6:23 PM, Mike Sixel said:

If the FO makes decisions based on hot spring training stats....that would be bad. 

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Unfortunately, Twins FO shares your ideology. Cave had a terrible spring training and they still went with him, having nothing positive to go on.

On the other hand unfortunately, Detroit didn't follow your ideology and went with Akil Baddo even though he had a good spring.

[IndianaTwin]

  On 9/8/2021 at 3:49 PM, Minny505 said:

Bonus points for using the word "abstrusity". Thank you for introducing that one to my lexicon.

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Yeah, I found "abstrusity" a little obscure and hard to understand. Then I looked it up. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

  On 9/8/2021 at 7:08 PM, Doctor Gast said:

On the other hand unfortunately, Detroit didn't follow your ideology and went with Akil Baddo even though he had a good spring.

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Detroit kept Baddoo on the roster because they had to keep him or literally pay the Twins to take him back. The good spring was just a bonus.

[Mike Sixel]

  On 9/8/2021 at 7:08 PM, Doctor Gast said:

Unfortunately, Twins FO shares your ideology. Cave had a terrible spring training and they still went with him, having nothing positive to go on.

On the other hand unfortunately, Detroit didn't follow your ideology and went with Akil Baddo even though he had a good spring.

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Those aren't even comparable situations at all. Not even close.

[jkcarew]

The issue with Dobnak is not how he’s been used or injuries…it’s that he’s eminently hittable.

The only reasons to give him more chances are his age and the desperate pitching situation. Even the Twins can afford to eat the guaranteed portion of that contract. And I expect they will if Dobnak doesn’t turn a corner next year.

[jkcarew]

  On 9/7/2021 at 5:53 PM, Doctor Gast said:

They did the same thing at CF. Putting inexperienced players there instead of initially going with our only MLB experienced true CF that was hot coming out of spring training.

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You don’t mean Keon Broxton, do you?

The Keon Broxton that spent all season proving that he can’t hit AAA pitching? The Keon Broxton that was released by the Saints and is now 0 for 4 with a walk and 3 K’s on Milwaukee’s rookie league team?

[Johnny Ringo]

  On 9/7/2021 at 10:27 PM, Mike Sixel said:

You think signing Simmons was inexplicable? 

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In a salary cap league (the one that the Twins self-impose); yes it was inexplicable. Because it surely came out of the pitching budget. With our first half pitching, you could have had Ozzie Smith and the Holy Trinity at short and it wouldn't matter. Simmons is a 1.0 WAR guy. If teams like the Twins spend $10 million per incremental win, they are doomed. Front offices are paid to understand this stuff. So was it inexplicable? Yes. It was inexplicable.  

[Mike Sixel]

  On 9/9/2021 at 3:19 PM, Johnny Ringo said:

In a salary cap league (the one that the Twins self-impose); yes it was inexplicable. Because it surely came out of the pitching budget. With our first half pitching, you could have had Ozzie Smith and the Holy Trinity at short and it wouldn't matter. Simmons is a 1.0 WAR guy. If teams like the Twins spend $10 million per incremental win, they are doomed. Front offices are paid to understand this stuff. So was it inexplicable? Yes. It was inexplicable.  

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He wasn't expected to be a 1.0 fWAR guy.........who would you have put at SS? I'm guessing 99% of the people in MLB and this site would disagree with you, btw.

[ashbury]

  On 9/8/2021 at 7:54 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

Detroit kept Baddoo on the roster because they had to keep him or literally pay the Twins to take him back. The good spring was just a bonus.

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Did they change how Rule 5 works? I thought the drafting team paid a price, and then if they don't want to keep him they offer him back for half price, assuming he clears waivers.

[Brock Beauchamp]

  On 9/9/2021 at 3:38 PM, ashbury said:

Did they change how Rule 5 works? I thought the drafting team paid a price, and then if they don't want to keep him they offer him back for half price, assuming he clears waivers.

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You’re right, I had the payers reversed. What I meant was that giving back Baddoo out of ST was Detroit essentially throwing away a little bit of money. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

  On 9/9/2021 at 3:19 PM, Johnny Ringo said:

In a salary cap league (the one that the Twins self-impose); yes it was inexplicable. Because it surely came out of the pitching budget. With our first half pitching, you could have had Ozzie Smith and the Holy Trinity at short and it wouldn't matter. Simmons is a 1.0 WAR guy. If teams like the Twins spend $10 million per incremental win, they are doomed. Front offices are paid to understand this stuff. So was it inexplicable? Yes. It was inexplicable.  

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Except the expectation was that Simmons would be a pitching assist player. His signing was primarily to supplement the entire pitching staff after several seasons of terrible infield defense. 

[Johnny Ringo]

  On 9/9/2021 at 3:35 PM, Mike Sixel said:

He wasn't expected to be a 1.0 fWAR guy.........who would you have put at SS? I'm guessing 99% of the people in MLB and this site would disagree with you, btw.

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The Twins are the amongst the last to eat at the free agent trough because of climate, high state taxes, and thirty years of play-off irrelevancy . Twenty nine teams passed on him, so I am 100% sure that 99% of MLB would not disagree with me.  

[Mike Sixel]

  On 9/9/2021 at 6:06 PM, Johnny Ringo said:

The Twins are the amongst the last to eat at the free agent trough because of climate, high state taxes, and thirty years of play-off irrelevancy . Twenty nine teams passed on him, so I am 100% sure that 99% of MLB would not disagree with me.  

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Did 29 teams pass on every free agent the twins have signed? I think we are just going to disagree here, which is fine with me. 

[Dodecahedron]

  On 9/9/2021 at 6:10 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Did 29 teams pass on every free agent the twins have signed? I think we are just going to disagree here, which is fine with me. 

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Yeah.  The Twins were expected to be strong contenders this year.  I doubt they had any trouble getting free agents to answer the phone.  Simmons was signed later, but not super-late.  He probably had other offers that he passed on and was simply holding out for the best deal.

[Johnny Ringo]

  On 9/9/2021 at 6:10 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Did 29 teams pass on every free agent the twins have signed? I think we are just going to disagree here, which is fine with me. 

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Reasonable minds can reasonably disagree.