Andrelton Simmons Isn’t Good Enough to Get Away with This

[TwinsDr2021]

For the record I am vaccinated.

I went to my doctor and said I don't know if I have ever had covid, never tested positive. He said there have been studies (Cleveland Clinic is one) that if you have natural immunity the vaccination isn't more effective and since I have a family history of autoimmune disease (possibly side effect of the vaccine is triggering these) I should get tested to see if I have had it.

He suggestion was if I had Covid not to get vaccinated because the side effects could be worse, I was tested and never had it and got the vaccine.

Now onto Simmons, he has had Covid, so him not getting the shot is very understandable, seeing quite a few players, actors, politicians getting covid after getting the shot it is somewhat reasonable for him to say "doesn’t/didn’t really work",  him saying "might get some side affects" is an absolute fact, there is no denying that.

But when put all together it isn't a good message, the message should always be talk to your doctor and discuss what is best for you and your situation. Is it a reason to cut somebody, absolutely not, but it is 2021 and if people disagree with you, you never know what might happen.

Edit: I will add anybody on here telling people to just get the vaccine without regards to their own situation can be just a damning.

[Brock Beauchamp]

8 minutes ago, jgfellows said:

I agree he didn’t live up to expectations.  I agree that he could be let go because of he sucks. But to suggest he be let go over his stance on COVID is frightening.  

Well, there comes a point where headaches no longer become worth it. Simmons, with his anti-vax stance, sidelined a significant portion of the team when the Twins were still in contention for the season. The wheels completely came off after that point and Simmons has been a terrible baseball player as it unraveled.

There's nothing wrong with letting "you're a pain in the ass and have been a negative influence on the team and season" factor into the decision whether to release a bad baseball player. This front office prioritizes character and frankly, benching a portion of the roster because a player doesn't believe in science and other things way above his pay grade to the detriment of the rest of the team is a slight on his character.

But for the record, I'd be very wary of firing someone ONLY for refusing the vaccine.

[jgfellows]

Also if someone is taking medical advice from Simmons or Cousins, that person is an idiot.  But again nobody deserves to get fired over having an opinion i don’t hold.

[wsnydes]

4 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Well, there comes a point where headaches no longer become worth it. Simmons, with his anti-vax stance, sidelined a significant portion of the team when the Twins were still in contention for the season. The wheels completely came off after that point and Simmons has been a terrible baseball player as it unraveled.

There's nothing wrong with letting "you're a pain in the ass and have been a negative influence on the team and season" factor into the decision whether to release a bad baseball player. This front office prioritizes character and frankly, benching a portion of the roster because a player doesn't believe in science and other things way above his pay grade to the detriment of the rest of the team is a slight on his character.

Non-bad players get released for nonperformance related issues now and then.  Those are usually more severe circumstances, but it does happen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, wsnydes said:

Non-bad players get released for nonperformance related issues now and then.  Those are usually more severe circumstances, but it does happen.

Oh sure. I personally don't believe refusing the vaccine is enough on its own, at least in the case of Simmons where actual danger to other humans is moderate at most, but it can certainly factor into a larger decision of whether he's worth the effort at this point. I'd argue he's not, mostly for on-field reasons, but him being a significant part of the April Torpedoing Of The Season would also factor into my decision.

If I was in this front office, I would have spent the afternoon of July 30th calling other teams literally saying "you can have Andrelton Simmons for $1m and nothing else" in part because of his anti-vax nonsense.

[gunnarthor]

35 minutes ago, jgfellows said:

I’m missing the quotes where he’s actively trying to dissuade people from getting vaccinated.  And even if he is, the first amendment is not just for popular opinions but its for the stupid people too

First amendment has nothing to do with his future with the Twins.

[wsnydes]

2 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Oh sure. I personally don't believe refusing the vaccine is enough on its own, at least in the case of Simmons where actual danger to other humans is moderate at most, but it can certainly factor into a larger decision of whether he's worth the effort at this point. I'd argue he's not, mostly for on-field reasons, but him being a significant part of the April Torpedoing Of The Season would also factor into my decision.

If I was in this front office, I would have spent the afternoon of July 30th calling other teams literally saying "you can have Andrelton Simmons for $1m and nothing else" in part because of his anti-vax nonsense.

I'm with you there.  I was more just making a general statement backing up your point.

I would have been on the phone saying "you can have Simmon for $1M" regardless of the anti-vax stuff.  This team has other players to audition and don't need Simmons playing every day.

[Squirrel]

20 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

For the record I am vaccinated.

I went to my doctor and said I don't know if I have ever had covid, never tested positive. He said there have been studies (Cleveland Clinic is one) that if you have natural immunity the vaccination isn't more effective and since I have a family history of autoimmune disease (possibly side effect of the vaccine is triggering these) I should get tested to see if I have had it.

He suggestion was if I had Covid not to get vaccinated because the side effects could be worse, I was tested and never had it and got the vaccine.

Now onto Simmons, he has had Covid, so him not getting the shot is very understandable, seeing quite a few players, actors, politicians getting covid after getting the shot it is somewhat reasonable for him to say "doesn’t/didn’t really work",  him saying "might get some side affects" is an absolute fact, there is no denying that.

But when put all together it isn't a good message, the message should always be talk to your doctor and discuss what is best for you and your situation. Is it a reason to cut somebody, absolutely not, but it is 2021 and if people disagree with you, you never know what might happen.

Edit: I will add anybody on here telling people to just get the vaccine without regards to their own situation can be just a damning.

His anti-vaccine stances were well-known prior to his contracting it and spreading it to his teammates. A lot of ifs in that, however, it's a decision between him and his doctor, and not one to be peddled on the internet

[jgfellows]

7 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

First amendment has nothing to do with his future with the Twins.

It shouldn’t.  But the thrust of the article disagrees with your statement. That is what I have a problem with the article.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, jgfellows said:

It shouldn’t.  But the thrust of the article disagrees with your statement. That is what I have a problem with the article.

No, it doesn't. The first amendment is protection from the government restricting individual speech, not a private organization telling an employee/contractor "you're a pain in the ass and bad at your job, now get lost".

[garn from vancouver]

wow. just stopped being a fan.

[Squirrel]

5 minutes ago, jgfellows said:

It shouldn’t.  But the thrust of the article disagrees with your statement. That is what I have a problem with the article.

So, Simmons has a right to his opinion, but Stu does not?

[TwinsDr2021]

11 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

His anti-vaccine stances were well-known prior to his contracting it and spreading it to his teammates. A lot of ifs in that, however, it's a decision between him and his doctor, and not one to be peddled on the internet

So the article was about the tweet from yesterday correct? Not sure what April has to do with it?

But if you want to bring up April, there was quite a bit still unknown in prior to April, then he ended up getting Covid, didn't need to be hospitalized, obviously didn't die and from what I read experienced “very mild” symptoms and now has natural immunity.

I can understand where he is coming from (even if I disagree with him on his vaccine stance), he basically was saying I don't trust the vaccine, I trust my body and he didn't or doesn't fall into the high risk categories, and in his case he was right, many others say the same thing and have been completely wrong. Until as a country we are willing to see the other side and try to understand (don't have to agree with them) them instead of demonizing them (Both sides) we are never going to come together.

 

[Squirrel]

1 minute ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

So the article was about the tweet from yesterday correct? Not sure what April has to do with it?

But if you want to bring up April, there was quite a bit still unknown in prior to April, then he ended up getting Covid, didn't need to be hospitalized, obviously didn't die and from what I read experienced “very mild” symptoms and now has natural immunity.

I can understand where he is coming from (even if I disagree with him on his vaccine stance), he basically was saying I don't trust the vaccine, I trust my body and he didn't or doesn't fall into the high risk categories, and in his case he was right, many others say the same thing and have been completely wrong. Until as a country we are willing to see the other side and try to understand (don't have to agree with them) them instead of demonizing them (Both sides) we are never going to come together.

 

We do have a discussion thread on the Coronavirus if you want to get more in depth about that particular discussion, found in the Current Affairs club.

[LA VIkes Fan]

I live in LA and Simmons was a bit of a head case when he was out here. He skipped the last 10 or so games last year because he just "wasn't feeling it" with the Angels out of contention. Admittedly, those were weird times but it was very clear at that moment he wasn't coming back. 

Him being a head case isn't a reason to cut him. Him being a head case and having an OPS of .560 with an OPS + of 59 should be enough to at least put him on the bench and forget him.  Add in that he didn't get vaccinated, got Covid, caused the team problems, and helped derail this season and it is a little surprising he's still on the team. I understand that the reason he wasn't traded is no else wanted him at the trade deadline, like at all, which should also tell us something. Frankly, he should be gone but we have no one to replace him. Kind of reminds of a certain QB...

Look, there' s nothing wrong with making a choice. That's everyone's privilege (not a right in the legal sense, a privilege). There's also nothing wrong with that choice leading to a consequence in society/with your employer, etc. There is no free lunch. When you make a choice, you also choose to live with the consequences of that choice. Cutting or benching Simmons because he isn't vaccinated and posts weird stuff on the internet is probably too severe of a consequence. Cutting or benching Simmons because he can't hit water if he fell out of a boat, has declined from a great to an above average infielder, the team needs to play guys to see if they have next year's SS anywhere in the system, and because he isn't vaccinated and posts weird stuff on the internet is not too severe a consequence. MLB is like most employers; the more valuable you are the more outside BS the Club will tolerate, the less valuable you are the less outside BS the Club will tolerate. Simmons is not very valuable right now.  

[TwinsDr2021]

Just now, Squirrel said:

We do have a discussion thread on the Coronavirus if you want to get more in depth about that particular discussion, found in the Current Affairs club.

Honestly super confused by your comment. So what is this article doing here? the article is about Simmons anti-vax stance, his tweet, him not being good enough to put up with it and sending him on his way.

the 1st amendment is all the comments section, and many things on covid, anti-vax, who has the right to say what has been said.

If the mods don't want the stuff that was talked about in the article talked about, move the article, but it sounds more like you are saying if you don't agree find with the premise, find someplace else to disagree? is that what you are saying? You quoted me more than once, and then decided to say find someplace else.

So is this a better take? Simmons sucks, the Twins suck (this year) and the rest of the year should be spend auditioning the younger guys out, and his should be back balled from baseball due to his anti-vax stance.

 

[Unwinder]

The worst thing about this pandemic has been figuring out how to work with, support, and love people in my life who I think are harmfully, passionately wrong about a life-or-death matter that affects others as well as themselves. People who I otherwise want to keep close in my life.

Fortunately, Andrelton Simmons is not my mother-in-law, and he hasn't done anything for me lately.

I support rewarding Maggi with a few months of major league paychecks for his good work, I support giving Gordon another shot, and I support shuffling things around in any way that will bring Miranda up.

[70charger]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

So, Simmons has a right to his opinion, but Stu does not?

Who said that? That's a weird straw man.

One is allowed to "have a problem with" an article, and for damn good reason, and not be falsely accused of trying shut down debate.

In fact, if anyone is, it's you:

Quote

We do have a discussion thread on the Coronavirus if you want to get more in depth about that particular discussion, found in the Current Affairs club.

So then what's this article doing here?

All sides have a right to their opinions. Period.

[AceWrigley]

Lefty was one of my favorite pitchers to watch. What a slider. Looked like a fastball, had a little hump to it, then went from Minneapolis to Mankato on a rail. Good luck.

[Azviking101]

I honestly think the Twins ownership is terrified to give away money to tell someone to leave. I think they want to milk any sort of productivity possible out of these guys. There's no other way to explain guys like Shoemaker and Happ (still no clue how they got someone to trade for him) and now Simmons  being on the roster as long as they have.

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 minutes ago, 70charger said:

So then what's this article doing here?

All sides have a right to their opinions. Period.

All sides have a right to their opinions but the difference is that we've invited Stu to share his without editorial oversight. The same cannot be said for user comments.

If Squirrel has asked users not to go too deep into the coronavirus weeds over a tongue-in-cheek editorial piece, that request needs to be respected. Squirrel is a representative of Twins Daily and is following owner policy.

[nicksaviking]

39 minutes ago, 70charger said:

 

So then what's this article doing here?

All sides have a right to their opinions. Period.

***Moderator Note***

We've been over this before here at TD. Covid is dangerous and real, the vaccine is is needed and in society's best interest. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. This is TD's stance and the owners of the site have no desire for their website to linked to any other crackpot agendas about this very real and serious topic.

Stay on topic. If your feelings on the matter cannot be represented due to this stance, sorry, there are plenty of other sites for you to post those takes.

[RickOShea]

Would everyone react the same if Cruz had twittered what Simmons, did?

[Unwinder]

4 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

Would everyone react the same if Cruz had twittered what Simmons, did?

He's good enough to get away with it.

[jgfellows]

2 hours ago, Squirrel said:

So, Simmons has a right to his opinion, but Stu does not?

Of course he does. And I have a right to mine.  Calling for the dismissal of a person because you don't like their opinion (even though their opinion has absolutely nothing to do with their job) is frightening.  I'll grant you, if this was "tongue in cheek" like the articles I'm used to from Stu, I totally missed that.  If someone wants to inform me that this was just satire, i'll apologize and shut up about it.  

[Game7-91]

Great article Stu, as usual. I never knew Lefty trafficked in conspiracy theories. Learn something new every day! As for Simmons, I honestly wasnt sure what he was trying to say, other than it seemed odd, to say the least. As a BB guy, his defense still plays, too bad the offense has gone missing....which leads me to this suggestion for a new rule/look/model for MLB. The new rule proposal is this:

Teams get a Designated Fielder, to be designated before each game by mgr decision, variable position, This also means one additional DH, and it would also mean the NL adopting the DH rule.

Whew, it's a reach I know, but I have actually backed off my initial impulse, which was baseball rosters be structured like football, with a dedicated 9 on offense/ 9 on defense. I may be crazy, but I am not an extremist!  Great gibbons, two DH's and one DF would be a better product. 

A guy like Simmons can do what he does, as long as he stays on whatever meds are needed, and the rest of us are spared the pain of having to watch him take an AB. Even better, we are spared the terror of watching the likes of Willie Norwood, Josh Willingham, or Luis Arraez, et al, try to track a hooking fly ball in the LF corner. 

Who do I contact at MLB to get the ball rolling on this, this needs to happen in 2022? ?

[TwinsDr2021]

18 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

***Moderator Note***

We've been over this before her at TD. Covid is dangerous and real, the vaccine is is needed and in society's best interest. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. This is TD's stance and the owners of the site have no desire for their website to linked to any other crackpot agendas about this very real and serious topic.

Stay on topic. If your feelings on the matter cannot be represented due to this stance, sorry, there are plenty of other sites for you to post those takes.

Sorry truly, some of us are new or newer to the site, I had no idea this was a tongue-in-cheek editorial piece and honestly not sure how I would know it was, it looks like every other article on the site?

Honest question, what is the topic of this article, so we can stay on topic? My understanding of it was Simmons tweet and between the tweet and him being an offensive liability it is time to let him go.

I guess trying to add some reasons and dare I say logic possibly behind his tweet went too far.

I will be done commenting on this thread because I guess it was never meant for comments, it was meant as a funny read?

 

[Dman]

11 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

Would everyone react the same if Cruz had twittered what Simmons, did?

I think I would but then I am not really advocating for Simmons to be fired.  I still would disagree with his opinion and yeah I would lose a lot of respect for Cruz if it were him.  I would never be able to view him the same way if that was his stance.  We have a responsibility to one another to keep those around us safe and the vaccine does that.  If Cruz were against that I wouldn't be able to look up to him anymore as a role model.  Again I don't think he would need to be fired but no matter how well he did from that point on my admiration would never be the same.

[RpR]

Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep....

[woolywoolhouse]

Jake Cave believe similarly to Simmons - check his "Likes" on Twitter, and it's all QAnon, anti-vax, and anti-mask conspiracies - but he's at least smart enough to not broadcast it to the world; probably because he knows he's not "good enough" to get away with it.