Game Score: Twins 1, White Sox 0

[rghrbek]

Kepler had one dominant MiLb season. It was good.  His other stats suggested he would be an on base machine.  He has not been that, at all.  Even at the discounted rate over term, he's been a disappointment.  

Rooker and his 4 Ks is what everyone has always said he was.  Dave Kingman comp, except not that good.  Keep playing him, we have to this year, but not good.

[VivaBomboRivera!]

Nice to get the last word of the season series by taking two of three in a home stand, with the rubber game being a cup of 0-1 shutout.  No better way to say, "Wait 'til next year."

Not to be overlooked - the last two games completed (albeit without the bottom of the 9th) in under three hours.  Work fast, throw strikes, beat Division leaders.

[Twinfan603]

9 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

As for Rooker, I'm pretty much done. He can't hit well enough yet to be on the MLB roster. Time to recognize that and give someone else the opportunity. Or maybe he gets a few more days of 4-5 ABs and then gets optioned when Buxton is ready. Hmmm, another interesting idea... 

Couldn't disagree more. Rooker should absolutely stay up until the end of season and get as many ABs as possible. The season is lost and losses don't matter, so what's the problem with having him hit in the top half of the order? They desperately need to do due diligence on these guys and see what they have before they cut anybody from the 40-man in the offseason. Arraez is part of the future but his knees are hell, why would he need to play every day for the next month and a half? Show me Rooker, show me Gordon, show me Refsynder.

I've had enough of having to watch relievers the FO thought were AAAA guys go on to have good careers with other teams. Let's stop letting SSS and first impressions dictate decisions and actually give some of these guys a chance--the season can still provide future value even if it's been ugly so far.

Do I think Rooker is someone who can put up an .800 OPS over a full season to justify being a DH? No, but the Twins need to make damn sure that isn't the case to avoid more egg on their face, and 100 ABs isn't enough to guarantee that.

 

[bighat]

Heck yeah Polanco - dude is straight up carrying the team right now. That extension looks very, very good right now and is probably the only extension that's working out. Kepler's, Sano's, and Dobnak's, not so much.

Nice to see the workman-like outing from Ober. Twins went 5-2 against the Astros and Sox, not too shabby for a last place team. I'm soaking it up and enjoying it while I can, these moments are fleeting in 2021.
 

[MN_ExPat]

15 hours ago, beckmt said:

Twins are coming closer to playing like the expectations we had at the first of the year.  Would be nice to see if they can keep this up.

 

Easy partner, that’s crazy talk! They’ve got a top 5 draft choice to protect. Don’t hex them ? ?. 

[theBOMisthebomb]

15 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

3 out of 4 from Houston, 2 out of 3 from Chicago? Are we good somehow?

I'm prepared to die on the hill still believing the 2021 Twins are/were a talented ball club (even after the trade deadline there is still some hope for the immediate future). 

[beckmt]

1 hour ago, MN_ExPat said:

 

Easy partner, that’s crazy talk! They’ve got a top 5 draft choice to protect. Don’t hex them ? ?. 

Twins were much more talented than they played,  We all need hope for next year and not a tank job.  This may only be a mirage, but the hope is they finish strong and then retool for next year.

[Alex Schieferdecker]

I was very impressed by Ober's pitching in that Andrew Vaughn at-bat. He missed with his first fastball, almost hitting Vaughn in the head. But he didn't get gun shy. He trusted his control, and threw three more fastballs high and inside, and Vaughn couldn't stop swinging and missing at them. Great confidence and control from Ober to execute that game plan in a big spot.

[Whitey333]

Nice win for Twins.  Nice to beat Sox.  Lance Lynn was supposed to start but they are saving him for Thursday field of dreams game.  We didn't have much offense but good pitching.  I'd say well done.

[LA VIkes Fan]

7 hours ago, Twinfan603 said:

Couldn't disagree more. Rooker should absolutely stay up until the end of season and get as many ABs as possible. The season is lost and losses don't matter, so what's the problem with having him hit in the top half of the order? They desperately need to do due diligence on these guys and see what they have before they cut anybody from the 40-man in the offseason. Arraez is part of the future but his knees are hell, why would he need to play every day for the next month and a half? Show me Rooker, show me Gordon, show me Refsynder.

I've had enough of having to watch relievers the FO thought were AAAA guys go on to have good careers with other teams. Let's stop letting SSS and first impressions dictate decisions and actually give some of these guys a chance--the season can still provide future value even if it's been ugly so far.

Do I think Rooker is someone who can put up an .800 OPS over a full season to justify being a DH? No, but the Twins need to make damn sure that isn't the case to avoid more egg on their face, and 100 ABs isn't enough to guarantee that.

 

I completely agree that his year is about evaluating guys. I've been saying that since late May. I just disagree on Rooker and think it's time to move on and evaluate others. He's overmatched and we haven't seen anything that suggests he'll improve. He's getting worse over time. I think we have seen enough to know that he isn't yet ready to compete on the MLB level at the plate. He doesn't provide defensive value so if he doesn't hit, he has no place. Let's keep in mind he hit some but wasn't exactly tearing up AAA before he came up - .239/.362/.546 with 80 SOs in 218 ABs (36%). He got promoted based upon his age and draft position, not so much on his AAA performance. He's probably out as the guy who goes when Buxton is activated. Until then, at least move him down to 7th or 8th in the order. Give the team a chance to be successful. 

I would bring up Miranda and give him those ABs. Contreras is interesting but we need a RH bat. Miranda has played some OF and his initial shot in the majors is probably on a Utility basis since we have Donaldson, then Arraez, then Sano to play 3B and 2B is taken by Polanco. I say let's see if Miranda can hit MLB pitching. We have to protect him after this year so let's see what we got. Drop Derek Law from the 40 man if we need to.      

I agree that we need to evaluate guys this year. That doesn't mean we run with them long term if they aren't successful after an opportunity. I just think Rooker has had his shot now twice this year, hasn't hit, and it's time for someone else.  Also, let's not worry about a guy leaving and being successful elsewhere. That happens to every team and sometime guys have to leave, and change or get different coaching to be successful. Juan Minaya looks great this year - much better than when he was on the White Sox. That's not because the Twins are brilliant and the White Sox are dummies with relief pitchers because it also goes the other way. Some times it's just situational or coaching approach or frankly, just maturity or blind luck.  the only thing we should care about is does the player help us? Right now, Rooker does not and he's getting worse over time, not better, so it's hard to make a case that he will help us in the future.  Time for a re-set. Keep the line moving. Miranda is next in that line. 

[bean5302]

Kepler's fine. He's clearly pushing at the plate, and I do believe some of his critics have a point with the "sell out for the home run" going on, but Kepler is not the problem. He's a 2.0 WAR player if you have him in RF. That's fine, especially given the fact he's only making $6.5MM per year. 

Kepler's contract raised a lot of eyebrows, but not because Kepler wasn't worth it. It raised a lot of eyebrows because of the potenital Kepler's contract could turn into another Yelich contract where the player was vastly underpaid because teams in MLB have such ironclad player control, paying extremely productive players peanuts through their prime.

Kepler didn't turn into Yelich. It's good for baseball, but bad for the Twins that he didn't. Fans are acting ridiculously when they're upset Kepler isn't an All Star making $6MM a year.

[dex8425]

15 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Just a couple quick comments: 

1] I am a believer in Ober and his potential. The league will make adjustments. He will have to make adjustments as well. But his rookie numbers are better than any rookie I can think of in recent memory.

2] With due respect to all of us wanting changes in the pen, and super disappointed with how the pen turned out this year, there is a reason the FO grabs guys to audition. We all know the volatility of RP. And they NEED to bring in a couple good arms for 2022. But isn't it crazy that the quality veteran Colome who we all wanted gone a month ago is suddenly looking like the guy we THOUGHT we were signing? So maybe he suddenly finds himself,  too little too late, but has an option year. 

1. Randy Dobnak was pretty dang good as a rookie. Good enough to start game 2 of a playoff series. 

2. I totally forgot Colome has an option year. Keep throwing him out there to see if it's worth exercising. 

[dex8425]

5 hours ago, bighat said:

Heck yeah Polanco - dude is straight up carrying the team right now. That extension looks very, very good right now and is probably the only extension that's working out. Kepler's, Sano's, and Dobnak's, not so much.

Nice to see the workman-like outing from Ober. Twins went 5-2 against the Astros and Sox, not too shabby for a last place team. I'm soaking it up and enjoying it while I can, these moments are fleeting in 2021.
 

Way too early to tell on Dobnak. He was great for a year, good for a year, looked unhittable in spring training, then the Twins messed him up, then he got hurt. I expect him to be a solid #4 in the rotation next year. 

[MN_ExPat]

4 hours ago, beckmt said:

Twins were much more talented than they played,  We all need hope for next year and not a tank job.  This may only be a mirage, but the hope is they finish strong and then retool for next year.

I know. Just having fun ?. 

[RpR]

10 hours ago, Twinfan603 said:

Couldn't disagree more. Rooker should absolutely stay up until the end of season and get as many ABs as possible. The season is lost and losses don't matter, so what's the problem with having him hit in the top half of the order?

 

People do not pay 19 bucks for a cheap ticket, to go watch batting practice which is what this would be.

 

[MN_ExPat]

13 minutes ago, RpR said:

People do not pay 19 bucks for a cheap ticket, to go watch batting practice which is what this would be.

 

Well luckily it's not up to us bleacher seats GMs to make those decisions.  I guarantee that Rooker will get a much longer leash than the mob ready to attack Frankenstein's castle would like, and that's probably a good thing.

[jimbo92107]

Ober looks legit, but that's what I thought of Dobbsie, too. See if he can keep it up and stay healthy. Jax kinda came out of nowhere, but he's not a nibbler with just a couple favorite spots. He has a good mix of pitches, spreads the ball around the periphery, and has just enough heat so they can't just sit on his curves. Seems more of a grinder than a tightrope walker. I don't expect explosions of runs off him, but his stuff doesn't look that dominant. I do expect all three young pitchers to remain starters, but maybe  not all of them with the Twins. 

Meanwhile, bring up Miranda and Blaze! Give the kids a taste, see if they like it.

[joefish]

Jorge. TEAM MVP. 

Atta Jorge.

[Nine of twelve]

12 hours ago, MN_ExPat said:

 

Easy partner, that’s crazy talk! They’ve got a top 5 draft choice to protect. Don’t hex them ? ?. 

Moving a few positions in the MLB draft rarely makes a difference. There have been many washouts drafted in the top five and many very good players drafted after that. And it's way different from the NBA where two players can carry a whole franchise. Just make good selections with whatever draft choices you have.

[bean5302]

6 hours ago, jimbo92107 said:

Ober looks legit, but that's what I thought of Dobbsie, too...

Dobnak didn't have the level of success or the strikeout stuff Ober had in the minors. I think Ober has much better stuff and, as a result, a much better chance of sustained success provided he stays healthy.

[MN_ExPat]

10 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Moving a few positions in the MLB draft rarely makes a difference. There have been many washouts drafted in the top five and many very good players drafted after that. And it's way different from the NBA where two players can carry a whole franchise. Just make good selections with whatever draft choices you have.

I know... it was a joke .