Burrows optioned; Nick Vincent added and recalled

[Twinsoholic]

The Twins have selected and added Nick Vincent. They have sent Burrows back to AAA. 
 

Moran or Hamilton could have been selected. 
 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Twinsoholic said:

The Twins have selected and added Nick Vincent. They have sent Burrows back to AAA. 
 

Moran or Hamilton could have been selected. 
 

Or Cano. It isn't like Cano is a spring chicken. I really don't get this. I'd have preferred any of those three to Vincent. Here's hoping they are right......and I'm not.

[MMMordabito]

Maybe they're trying to get fired?  There's still a few weeks left of that Unemployment bonus.

[4twinsJA]

Don't understand this, unless had some agreement with Vincent when signed to minor league contract assuring him he would get an opportunity at MLB level. Is Albers next?

[Rosterman]

Well, the joy of mVincent is that he is not holding down the rotating roster spot. The Twins can't send him out without sending him thru waivers again. So picture him now. Maybe Kyle Barraclough will be next, followed by Joe Harvey, Robinson Leyer and, heaven forbid, Ian Gibault. ANy of those guys, adding in Sean Gilmartin, would not be able to be sent back down to the minors without others getting a chance to claim.

 

Of course, the Twins still want a few more innings from Garza before switching him out. And they can play musical chairs with him and Garcia for the moment, if need be.

 

Plus, the Twins will have the same problem when Luke Farrell and Derek Law come back. They can both do rehabs, but will have to stick on the Twins 40-man or waived off.

 

The other question is are the Twins going to do anything with names like Albers and Shepherd. Again, guys that would need a clear roster spot. But are they work it, now.

 

Ian Hamilton and Jovani Moran are the odd guys out at the moment. One (or both) will be on the Twins roster come the off-season. I would think the Twins would like to get a looksee at Hamilton. Maybe they will wait until the Saints season ends in late September. When they can add two more guys to the roster.

 

Musical waiver claim pitching time is here!

 

[Rosterman]

55 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Or Cano. It isn't like Cano is a spring chicken. I really don't get this. I'd have preferred any of those three to Vincent. Here's hoping they are right......and I'm not.

Cano is tough, as he is old, but only in his third season in the minors, so technically the Twins don't even need to protect him all of 2022, which I would assume that they will probably do at this point. He could get an early spring training invite and go hot from there.

 

So the issue with Cano. Do you add and protect him, in what is a worthless season, at the expense of...who? 

[Irishman]

Wish Nick Vincent a good luck!   See if he can handle the White Sox tonight.   

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

Cano is tough, as he is old, but only in his third season in the minors, so technically the Twins don't even need to protect him all of 2022, which I would assume that they will probably do at this point. He could get an early spring training invite and go hot from there.

 

So the issue with Cano. Do you add and protect him, in what is a worthless season, at the expense of...who? 

Any RP over thirty not named Rogers or Duffey. The goal should be finding pitchers for next year, of which Cano has a legit shot. I get there is a possible 40 man crunch, but they can figure it out. If Cano isn't on the roster next year, he probably will never be. 

[DJL44]

It appears they don't want to burn service time on anyone who might have a future. They'll keep everyone in the minors who doesn't have to be added this offseason. They'll promote the guys already on the roster or must add this offseason on or after September 1.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

It appears they don't want to burn service time on anyone who might have a future. They'll keep everyone in the minors who doesn't have to be added this offseason. They'll promote the guys already on the roster or must add this offseason on or after September 1.

Who worries about service time for relief pitchers?

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't think the concern here is about "service time" -- but rather who needs 40-man spots this winter.

Yennier Cano doesn't need a 40-man spot, he is not yet eligible for Rule 5 this winter. Ian Hamilton and Ryan Mason would be eligible for Rule 5 but both might be fringe candidates to be selected, and neither will be eligible for minor league free agency. Calling them up now may just be auditioning them for clubs to claim them off waivers later.

Still, Jovani Moran is an obvious guy who will require a 40-man spot, and he appears ready for a MLB opportunity. Andrew Vasquez will be a minor league free agent, so we might as well give him a look too. Either of those guys would probably be a better investment of innings here in August than Nick Vincent.

[GCTF]

Beau Burrows has pitched so bad.

How bad was he?

He was so bad he didn't even earn having his name spelled correctly in the title of the thread regarding his demotion.

 

[Danchat]

I don't get this FO's fascination with mediocre veteran relievers. Just give Moran or Hamilton a shot! 

I still haven't forgot how this FO chose to give Matt Belisle a million chances while Nick Anderson remained in the AAA bullpen, only to realize his potential elsewhere. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

7 minutes ago, GCTF said:

Beau Burrows has pitched so bad.

How bad was he?

He was so bad he didn't even earn having his name spelled correctly in the title of the thread regarding his demotion.

 

That was my bad -- I edited the title to include him. I strongly suspect it was auto-correct on my phone, but I will bear the consequences of this misspelling.

[Mike Sixel]

37 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

I don't think the concern here is about "service time" -- but rather who needs 40-man spots this winter.

Yennier Cano doesn't need a 40-man spot, he is not yet eligible for Rule 5 this winter. Ian Hamilton and Ryan Mason would be eligible for Rule 5 but both might be fringe candidates to be selected, and neither will be eligible for minor league free agency. Calling them up now may just be auditioning them for clubs to claim them off waivers later.

Still, Jovani Moran is an obvious guy who will require a 40-man spot, and he appears ready for a MLB opportunity. Andrew Vasquez will be a minor league free agent, so we might as well give him a look too. Either of those guys would probably be a better investment of innings here in August than Nick Vincent.

How do you propose building a bullpen next year, if zero guys from the minors get try outs this year? Sign mediocre guys? Start rookies with zero experience? 

[Otto von Ballpark]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How do you propose building a bullpen next year, if zero guys from the minors get try outs this year? Sign mediocre guys? Start rookies with zero experience? 

I suggested calling up Moran or even Vasquez instead of Vincent.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I wonder where Alex Scherff is -- he hasn't appeared in a game since we got him for Robles.

[lecroy24fan]

2 hours ago, Rosterman said:

 

 

Ian Hamilton and Jovani Moran are the odd guys out at the moment. One (or both) will be on the Twins roster come the off-season. I would think the Twins would like to get a looksee at Hamilton. Maybe they will wait until the Saints season ends in late September. When they can add two more guys to the roster.

 

 

 

Good news for you! The Saints season doesn't end until October 3rd.

[Mike Sixel]

10 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

I wonder where Alex Scherff is -- he hasn't appeared in a game since we got him for Robles.

I thought he was injured. 

[Dman]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Any RP over thirty not named Rogers or Duffey. The goal should be finding pitchers for next year, of which Cano has a legit shot. I get there is a possible 40 man crunch, but they can figure it out. If Cano isn't on the roster next year, he probably will never be. 

Cano has 1.41 WHIP at AAA that won't play in the majors.  he is looking more like a bust everyday.  To top it off he gave up the game tonight for the Saints as well.  If he can't handle AAA he won't be able to to handle the majors.  I think they will need to look elsewhere at least until he gets his control under control.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Cano has 1.41 WHIP at AAA that won't play in the majors.  he is looking more like a bust everyday.  To top it off he gave up the game tonight for the Saints as well.  If he can't handle AAA he won't be able to to handle the majors.  I think they will need to look elsewhere at least until he gets his control under control.

Great then Moran. Or someone else. A 35 year old is not part of the future.....

[Dman]

17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Great then Moran. Or someone else. A 35 year old is not part of the future.....

Yeah not a fan of Vincent myself.  I agree let's give some young guys a chance in this lost season.  This FO has no risk taking in them at all.

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

Cano has 1.41 WHIP at AAA that won't play in the majors.  he is looking more like a bust everyday.  To top it off he gave up the game tonight for the Saints as well.  If he can't handle AAA he won't be able to to handle the majors.  I think they will need to look elsewhere at least until he gets his control under control.

He's pitched 24 innings in AAA, that seems a bit early to be writing him off. He's had only 43 innings above A+, and while he is an old prospect, I think we should show more patience. 

Also, Juan Minaya was even worse at AAA with a 1.52 WHIP and is a non-prospect, so why did the Twins bother to call him up?

[Dman]

8 hours ago, Danchat said:

He's pitched 24 innings in AAA, that seems a bit early to be writing him off. He's had only 43 innings above A+, and while he is an old prospect, I think we should show more patience. 

Also, Juan Minaya was even worse at AAA with a 1.52 WHIP and is a non-prospect, so why did the Twins bother to call him up?

I see the Twins being willing to lose Minaya and needing guys up to pitch.  If he pitches well then great maybe they have something but given Minaya's track record it seems pretty unlikely.  In 2019 and 2021 his WHIP isn't great his K rate has gotten better but he doesn't look dominant to me and he is 30 years old now.  If they lose him no big deal there are tons of guys out there like him.  They have collected 3 guys already that might be better than he is right now.

Cano has potential no doubt but the walks and HR's are killing him right now.  He doesn't have to be added to the 40 man and I wouldn't add him to the 40 man given the way he is currently pitching.  There is potential there and we saw a dominant stretch in AA I just wouldn't add him until they are more certain he isn't clogging the 40 man.

[DJL44]

Moran looks like an obvious guy to promote. Still, he's only played 7 games for the Saints. Also, they may have wanted a RHP.

[Otto von Ballpark]

14 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I thought he was injured. 

Thanks. Now I see that "Injured 7-Day" is Scherff's roster status on his MILB page, but it doesn't show in the transactions list. And his placement on the injured list was mentioned by various Twins writers when we acquired him, but no one has apparently disclosed what the injury actually is.

[Otto von Ballpark]

30 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Moran looks like an obvious guy to promote. Still, he's only played 7 games for the Saints. Also, they may have wanted a RHP.

Moran "only" has 7 games in AAA, but 15 IP. How much does a reliever need? Graterol had 4 games, 5.1 IP at AAA; Alcala had 5 games, 7.2 IP; Stashak, 12 games and 22.1 IP, etc. It's not like Moran is some out-of-nowhere guy either -- 7th round pick in 2015, and even after missing most of 2016-2017 with injuries, he still managed to reach AA and the AFL in 2019.

Also, before adding Vincent, our staff had 9 RHP and 3 LHP -- not exactly out of balance. And as noted above, Moran is pitching multiple innings per appearance in AAA anyway, so I expect they'd like to see him face RHB too. Per B-Ref, RHB are only hitting .074/.160/,176 against him this year, for a .336 OPS -- even better than he has done vs LHB (.427).

I expect we'll see Moran added when rosters expand (albeit only to 28) in September, but I'm not sure what we gain by prioritizing Nick Vincent over him right now.