Week in Review: New-Look Rotation

[Nick Nelson]

4 hours ago, bighat said:

I understand why Gordon's being sent down. I'm just saying that with some seasoning, the kid could probably hit .250 and steal 40 bases. Maybe seems like the type of player who could have had a chance to play a few full seasons in the 70s, 80s, or 90s.

I'm not saying he should be here, or even deserves to be here in 2021. Just observing and bringing up a conversation, nothing more.

There's a risk here when it comes to giving Gordon "more seasoning" though. You're taking away opportunities from others to give to him. You're potentially clogging a 40-man roster spot throughout the offseason on the longshot hope that he turns a corner, which could lead to another Akil Baddoo situation. 

Gordon will be 26 and out of options next year. The Twins have basically run out of rope on developing him. I think that's the main disconnect a lot of people have with regards to his situation.

[Game7-91]

5 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

The real question is what is Arraez if Polanco is your 2B?

Or, is Polanco a tradeable piece of a package for SP over the winter?

Still leaves SS open. But it feels like a better possibility in Twinsworld to sign a quality FA SS than quality FA SP.

 

[bean5302]

Honestly, wouldn't surprise me if Arraez or Polanco was moved this offseason. They're both starting quality 2B at the MLB level.

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 hours ago, bean5302 said:

It's kind of interesting to see so many comments on Thorpe. I expect he'll be non-tendered and catch on in Korea or something.

Yeah, it sounds like Thorpe is still dealing at 89, which makes him close to useless as an MLB pitcher, even a lefty.

I sure wish we knew what has happened to him and whether it's something that will resolve itself in time or if this is just who he is now.

[bighat]

1 hour ago, Nick Nelson said:

There's a risk here when it comes to giving Gordon "more seasoning" though. You're taking away opportunities from others to give to him. You're potentially clogging a 40-man roster spot throughout the offseason on the longshot hope that he turns a corner, which could lead to another Akil Baddoo situation. 

Gordon will be 26 and out of options next year. The Twins have basically run out of rope on developing him. I think that's the main disconnect a lot of people have with regards to his situation.

You're right - I was just mainly throwing it out there and saying "if it were 1982 this kid might be an every day starter somewhere". Not saying he should be one now. Just sort of tossing out a random thought that came to me.

Sometimes I just post some musings here. I'm not here to talk about Gordon for Debate Club, or argue one way or another, or say "I'm right and you're wrong". I'm just posting thoughts.

Again, my thought was that maybe in another era, Gordon could have had a career. Interesting to think about. That was really all I was saying.

[Danchat]

3 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Yeah, it sounds like Thorpe is still dealing at 89, which makes him close to useless as an MLB pitcher, even a lefty.

I sure wish we knew what has happened to him and whether it's something that will resolve itself in time or if this is just who he is now.

He's had a pretty lengthy injury history, wouldn't that explain a lot of it? 

[DocBauer]

Just tossing out a few comments/opinions regarding the OP and various other comments.

1] I believe the Twins believe...as do I...that Pineda still has something in the tank and is part of 2022. I'm OK with that. I don't think I'd pencil him in for 30-32 GS, but I'm not sure he has to be with so many young arms getting so close.

2] Barnes was the next man up in the rotation and has done well enough to "deserve" a shot even though I think his best hope is a long relief spot. Jax has surprised me, and I can't help but wonder what he might still be as a late riser considering he basically BARELY pitched his first couple of milb seasons due to his military commitment. But again, like Barnes, I think we're talking a potentially solid middle guy in the pen. The Twins took a high draft shot on him hoping for the best. I applaud the gamble, but it took longer than they expected/hoped for to get full milb time. 

Ober has impressed the hell out of me. He is NOWHERE close to a finished product. He's still inconsistent with his stuff, and sometimes I think his stuff is moving almost too much, but with limited IP he has been rushed to MLB and more than held his own.

I believe 100% the Twins are going to sign a quality SP for 2022. Who and how much I'm just not going to get in to right now. Wrong time and place. The first 3 spots will be FA, Maeda and Pineda. The 4th and 5th spots will be open to the kids. Good chance Ober will be one of those guys. Dobnak might be another. But, thankfully, there is a LONG list of quality young arms to work in the off-season and ST and the first half of 2022 and push for one of those spots. Soon!

3] Fully agree Thorpe just needs to pitch, and probably move to the pen. He COULD be a lesser version of Rogers. That would be a GOOD THING. But regardless what role you place him in to finish 2021, LET HIM PITCH.

4] I GET sending Gordon down right now. Let him play every day at multiple positions and get AB he needs to get in a positive groove. He is a potential utility player with speed and an OK bat but still has a lot to prove. I think sending him down, for now is fine, Refsnyder needs to play because we don't want to put Kepler in CF right now to make sure he stays 100% healthy. And whether he is on the 40 or signed to a milb deal, he might have a real shot at being a quality RH 4th OF next year. BUT, I completely understand Gordon over Cave at this point. Cave hasn't done anything to suggest that being fully healthy he doesn't deserve to be back up...for now.

What DOES frustrate the hell out of me is not letting Gordon play SS at the ML level. You've protected him, nurtured him, stuck by him, given him a small shot and even transitioned him to CF on the fly! At some point, considering he's played SS most of his milb career AND during ST, just throw him out there and see what he's got!

5] And this goes back to Gordon as well, why is Simmons still playing SS almost daily? Is he here only because we don't want to look like an apathetic team that is willing to dump a veteran? Is he only still here to help the young pitchers have a quality SS behind them for confidence building? I don't want to be cruel, but his bat is horrendous, he's not part of 2022, and it's just time to let someone else play and show what they can do.

6] Colome and the rest of the pen frustrates me as much as anyone. And the pen needs to be addressed in the off-season. We all know this. And I want to see some new/young arms. But I don't know that you can just cut everyone....hyperbole by me...and just toss a bunch of rookies out there. Like it or not, Colome has been excellent for most of his career. He has been mostly horrible this season no question. But he's been much better the past few weeks. The Twins hold an option for 2022. Again, like it or not, he's getting a chance to see if his REAL self is back and worthy of being brought back.

Not saying he will be or should be, but right now he's getting a "look-see". Farrell might get healthy and audition the rest of the year. NOT saying I agree with this approach, but I can at least see using the final 2 months to bounce guys up and down and all around to see who you want to keep or cut and maybe re-sign on a milb deal. It's not fun, it's not sexy, but spending some time "scouting" what you have and may want to bring back in 2022 on the roster as a milb invite makes at least a little sense.

[TheLeviathan]

7 hours ago, Nick Nelson said:

There's a risk here when it comes to giving Gordon "more seasoning" though. You're taking away opportunities from others to give to him. You're potentially clogging a 40-man roster spot throughout the offseason on the longshot hope that he turns a corner, which could lead to another Akil Baddoo situation. 

Gordon will be 26 and out of options next year. The Twins have basically run out of rope on developing him. I think that's the main disconnect a lot of people have with regards to his situation.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  I think if we're going to comp Gordon and Baddoo, it seems more likely that Gordon IS Baddoo than that he causes someone else to be.  Nick Gordon was frequently in the top 100 prospects or close to it throughout his development.  High draft pick with pedigree.  Was moderately successful in 2019 and then pandemic nonsense.  If there is anybody worth rolling the dice on it's him.  

Especially when we are regularly fielding guys with significantly less upside right now and likely going forward.