How confident are you in the FO to turn this around?

[TwinsDr2021]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Stewart and Jay were "top 100" due to draft position and both had failed before this front office was hired. They were terrible draft picks and that's not the fault of this front office.

Calling Gonsalves a "top 100" is stretching the definition a bit. He never made a few top 100 lists and BA put him 99 and 97 in consecutive seasons.

Fernando Romero? You mean the guy who couldn't get into the country for an entire season and torpedoed his own career?

This front office actually received a really good performance from Gibson before he became ill and then entered free agency.

Berríos improved under this front office and was traded for a really nice package.

Your list looks a little bit different once we break it down piece by piece, doesn't it?

Yes, Stewart was on in pre 15/16, does that not count that he was a one time top 100 prospect same with Jay? Jay was also on the pre 16,

How is saying Gonsalves is a stretch, per https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=gonsal001ste

Baseball America had him Pre2017 at 97, and pre2018 at 99, Major League Baseball had him Pre-2017 at 92, Pre-2018 at 78.

So we ignore Romero was a top 100 prospect pre-2018 because a few years later he couldn't get into the country?

The reason I listed Gibson and Berrios was mostly because they were the top starters on the 2 for Gibson, 3 for Berrios division championship teams.

I also find it convenient that you the current top pitchers and prospect all but Duran go back to the guys I listed.

Again my point is, when Gonzo and Romero were at their highest they didn't trade them for help at the deadline, they held on to them and got nothing, same with Jay, Stewart. Maybe none of them would have been headlines like Graterol was but, a Romero, Jay, Wade, Baddoo, and about 9 relief pitchers could have been traded for one decent starter at the deadline, and they would be no worse then they are today.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

Let me rephrase again, then.  There is a 0% chance he is asking for approval before making these decisions.  

Better?

Agreed that he doesn't ask for approval for the lineups he makes or in game decisions he makes, but he does things in the general way the FO wants him to. Even if they fire him they'll bring in another guy just like him. This is the way the FO wants the team to be run. The pulling pitchers early during the first couple months of the season was decided by Rocco and the FO before the season started. Those weren't typical in game decisions. That was the decision they made to be able to get through the extra 900 innings this year vs last year. I'm not a big Rocco fan, but the FO has a very large say in how the game is managed. Not day to day, or inning to inning, but they'll always bring in a guy who looks at the numbers and manages based on the percentages.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Yes, Stewart was on in pre 15/16, does that not count that he was a one time top 100 prospect same with Jay? Jay was also on the pre 16,

How is saying Gonsalves is a stretch, per https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=gonsal001ste

Baseball America had him Pre2017 at 97, and pre2018 at 99, Major League Baseball had him Pre-2017 at 92, Pre-2018 at 78.

So we ignore Romero was a top 100 prospect pre-2018 because a few years later he couldn't get into the country?

The reason I listed Gibson and Berrios was mostly because they were the top starters on the 2 for Gibson, 3 for Berrios division championship teams.

I also find it convenient that you the current top pitchers and prospect all but Duran go back to the guys I listed.

Again my point is, when Gonzo and Romero were at their highest they didn't trade them for help at the deadline, they held on to them and got nothing, same with Jay, Stewart. Maybe none of them would have been headlines like Graterol was but, a Romero, Jay, Wade, Baddoo, and about 9 relief pitchers could have been traded for one decent starter at the deadline, and they would be no worse then they are today.

And that’s fair, maybe they should have traded them to maximize value. But the reality is that this front office just wasn’t given much pitching and they’ve failed to develop more, for which I’m currently giving them an incomplete grade that’s bordering on failing.

I think you might be confusing your seasons a bit. This front office was hired after the 2016 season and had no real impact until the start of the 2017 season. By then, both Jay and Stewart’s stock were on their precipitous drops downward. 

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I've given this FO credit even in this thread but they had a job to do and they failed at it. Maybe they'll get better, maybe they won't. They were clearly hired to replicate what the Twins did from  2001-2010 where they kept window of contention constantly open and only had one losing season while moving from one core to another.

I mentioned Rosario and May not because we necessarily miss them (replacing Rosario with Larnich was a 100% Terry Ryan move) but that the core they inherited is getting old and the FO needs to make the right move to keep the window open. Our pitching staff is the oldest staff in the league and, by far, the worst. That's amazing.

Agreed, that is amazing. And not good. I think where we differ is that you've taken 2021s failure and say it means they're an overall failure and should be fired. That's ignoring 2019 and 2020 when they did exactly what you're asking them to do. They missed this year. Missed badly. But outside of this year they've done what you've asked. That's why I made a post earlier in the thread about the "what have you done for me lately" attitude is getting out of control. No, they didn't take over a team filled with TD posters as players, but they also supplemented that core to the tune of back to back 60%+ win rates and top 10 pitching staffs. Now it fell apart. Firing them after this season seems like a decision made entirely from "what have you done for me lately." 

I get that the arms haven't arrived as quickly as you, or anybody, have wanted, but they have a whole host of them at AA and AAA now. It seems foolish to me to fire them before we actually get to see if these arms are for real. If they have built the pipeline and it's starting to produce now wouldn't it be a colossal mistake to fire them right before it starts to pay off?

[gunnarthor]

15 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Stewart and Jay were "top 100" due to draft position and both had failed before this front office was hired. They were terrible draft picks and that's not the fault of this front office.

Calling Gonsalves a "top 100" is stretching the definition a bit. He never made a few top 100 lists and BA put him 99 and 97 in consecutive seasons.

Fernando Romero? You mean the guy who couldn't get into the country for an entire season and torpedoed his own career?

This front office actually received a really good performance from Gibson before he became ill and then entered free agency.

Graterol turned into a reliever and was moved for a nice piece in Maeda.

Berríos improved under this front office and was traded for a really nice package.

Your list looks a little bit different once we break it down piece by piece, doesn't it?

Stewart, for instance, was 21 coming off a 2.88 ERA season between A+/AA in nearly 150 innings with surprisingly low strike out numbers. How much of his failure to develop from there is on the new FO or the old? Is Balazovi's continued improvement on the old or new? Now Stewart hasn't gone on to do much so maybe he was never going to be much but what about Enlow? Or Leach? They are 22 and 21 this season. Were they just bad picks by this FO or are we failing to develop them? Did Romero need some special assistance that this FO ignored that led him to torpedo his career?

I'd rather have Graterol back than Maeda but I understand that you and I have very different views on Maeda. 

[TwinsDr2021]

16 minutes ago, kenbuddha said:

I'd have a problem with that if Gonsalves, Jay, Stewart and Romero had gone on to do great, or even good, things for another organization. So far it hasn't happened.

The problem isn't that they have gone on to do something, the problem was this front office didn't do a damn thing with these assets. And beside Kohl (but still young and former first round pick) they all had a bright shine on them while this FO was in charge, Jay had wore off a bit, but was still considered a sure fire relief pitcher.

People keep talking about the Tampa way, the Tampa way is more than just trading stars when they get to expensive it is evaluating players and trading them away if they are going to clog up their 40 man roster. Prime example - They just traded two of them to the Twins, getting a short term boast on offense, and freeing up 2 40 man spots at the same time. The Twins don't trade prospects (except in the Odo and Maeda case which both worked) because gosh forbid some day they turn out.

[Dodecahedron]

9 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Agreed that he doesn't ask for approval for the lineups he makes or in game decisions he makes, but he does things in the general way the FO wants him to. Even if they fire him they'll bring in another guy just like him. This is the way the FO wants the team to be run. The pulling pitchers early during the first couple months of the season was decided by Rocco and the FO before the season started. Those weren't typical in game decisions. That was the decision they made to be able to get through the extra 900 innings this year vs last year. I'm not a big Rocco fan, but the FO has a very large say in how the game is managed. Not day to day, or inning to inning, but they'll always bring in a guy who looks at the numbers and manages based on the percentages.

Sure.  I am not suggesting that Baldelli is fighting with the FO over the general approach.  At the same time, I guarantee that the FO would be making different gametime decisions.  We all would, and I'm not saying that because I disagree with Baldelli's decisions.   There are dozens of decisions that could be made at any moment that could align with the FO approach.

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

Sure.  I am not suggesting that Baldelli is fighting with the FO over the general approach.  At the same time, I guarantee that the FO would be making different gametime decisions.  We all would.

I don't believe for a second that the FO would be making very many different in game decisions. Again, not huge Rocco fan, and the FO, and most of us, would have made some different decisions here and there throughout the year, but if you think the FO would have stopped putting Colome in games earlier I think you're very wrong. If you think they see his lineups and disagree with a majority of them and aren't sitting down with him and telling him to change them I think you're very wrong. The FO agrees with more of his moves than they disagree with. This is how they want the team to be run.

[Dodecahedron]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't believe for a second that the FO would be making very many different in game decisions. Again, not huge Rocco fan, and the FO, and most of us, would have made some different decisions here and there throughout the year, but if you think the FO would have stopped putting Colome in games earlier I think you're very wrong. If you think they see his lineups and disagree with a majority of them and aren't sitting down with him and telling him to change them I think you're very wrong. The FO agrees with more of his moves than they disagree with. This is how they want the team to be run.

You did not quote part of what I said:

"We all would, and I'm not saying that because I disagree with Baldelli's decisions.   There are dozens of decisions that could be made at any moment that could align with the FO approach."

[TwinsDr2021]

7 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I think you might be confusing your seasons a bit. This front office was hired after the 2016 season and had no real impact until the start of the 2017 season. By then, both Jay and Stewart’s stock were on their precipitous drops downward. 

thanks, I understand that both were on lists prior to them joining the organization. My point on Jay and Stewart were just that they were former 1st round picks, Jay was still considered a top relief pitcher prospect and other team fans love to see a former 1st round pick thrown into a deal. Also Duran has only really been a top 100 prospect once and only by baseball america and that was pre-2000, so does he fall into the Stewart, Jay, Gonzo, Romero Pot? Because some still think he will be a top starting pitcher (Not me, but some)

 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Dodecahedron said:

You did not quote part of what I said:

"We all would, and I'm not saying that because I disagree with Baldelli's decisions.   There are dozens of decisions that could be made at any moment that could align with the FO approach."

Well you edited your comment after I hit the quote button. But my stance is the same. The FO is happy with what Rocco is doing and they'd be doing basically the same thing. If your argument is simply that there being so many different options for decisions means there's a virtually guaranteed chance choices would be different then I guess this is just a waste of a conversation. Cuz that isn't the point. The point is whether the FO agrees with the general concepts in the way Rocco manages the team. And they do. Rocco manages how they want. That's the point.

[Danchat]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Duran - Injuries will be 24 when next season starts and has a 5.06 ERA in St. Paul, with 13 walks in 16 innings.

Balazovic - will be 24 when the season starts, nothing really to complain about other than he has never pitched more than 93.2 innings in the minors so there should be no real expectation that he is going to pitch 150 innings in the majors for a few years.

Canteriono - will be 24 when the season starts, is injured and the highest he has pitched is high A.

Sands - will be 25 next July in AA, like Balazovic has never pitched more than 97.1 innings (College) and he is back down to averaging less than 5 innings per start.

Ryan- 25, projects as a relief pitcher from what I have heard.

Woods-Richardson - love him is a real prospect being that he turns 21 shortly and in AA, big K's low walks

IMO most of these guys are too old to be considered real prospects (that doesn't mean that can't and won't be good to great) and in another post a few weeks ago, I pointed out that most top of the rotation guys have already been in the majors and performing by this age. For example Berrios was an All Star in his age 24 season and had been in the majors for parts of three years.

It's been hard to accrue innings when the 2020 season got skipped, the 2021 minor league season got to a late start, and now prospects all around baseball are dropping like flies due to injuries. Everyone's prospects got a year older with no experience, and a lot of these guys played their first full season in 2019. I know this sounds like a load of excuses, but the pandemic has put a hold on the team's pitching pipeline and there's nothing they could do about it.

The current team's abysmal pitching has magnified the lack of minor league development... but as it has been stated by many others, the failure to supplement the big league pitching staff in 2016-2020 was more due to the complete and utter failures of Gonsalves, Jay, Stewart, Romero, and others. It can take a long time for young prospects to arrive - Balazovic was drafted in 2016, Enlow in 2017, for example - so not converting even a single one of the mid 2010s pitching prospects into something was a huge blow to the system. But those weren't Falvine's guys. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

22 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Stewart, for instance, was 21 coming off a 2.88 ERA season between A+/AA in nearly 150 innings with surprisingly low strike out numbers. How much of his failure to develop from there is on the new FO or the old? Is Balazovi's continued improvement on the old or new? Now Stewart hasn't gone on to do much so maybe he was never going to be much but what about Enlow? Or Leach? They are 22 and 21 this season. Were they just bad picks by this FO or are we failing to develop them? Did Romero need some special assistance that this FO ignored that led him to torpedo his career?

I'd rather have Graterol back than Maeda but I understand that you and I have very different views on Maeda. 

As I said later, this front office has an incomplete grade bordering on failure right now. If 2020 hadn’t happen, I might agree with you and say they need to go. If they’re at this point again next year, they probably need to go.

But with 2020 being what it was, their ability to develop pitching feels very incomplete. I simply can’t tell what is failure and what is pandemic hangover yet. 

[TwinsDr2021]

29 minutes ago, Danchat said:

The current team's abysmal pitching has magnified the lack of minor league development... but as it has been stated by many others, the failure to supplement the big league pitching staff in 2016-2020 was more due to the complete and utter failures of Gonsalves, Jay, Stewart, Romero, and others.

So no blame goes to the FO, that can't see their highly rated prospects are garbage and it might be a good idea to trade them for some value, either other prospects or a pitcher at the deadline.

[chpettit19]

11 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

So no blame goes to the FO, that can't see their highly rated prospects are garbage and it might be a good idea to trade them for some value, either other prospects or a pitcher at the deadline.

What if the FO saw they were trash and tried to trade them but other teams also saw they were trash so they couldn't trade them and they were forced to do what they could to improve them and then move on? Not saying the FO doesn't deserve some blame, but it takes 2 teams to complete a trade. If nobody wants your prospects you can't make them trade for them.

And if other teams wanted to trade for them then the Twins FO wasn't the only one that didn't see they were trash.

[Mike Sixel]

11 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

What if the FO saw they were trash and tried to trade them but other teams also saw they were trash so they couldn't trade them and they were forced to do what they could to improve them and then move on? Not saying the FO doesn't deserve some blame, but it takes 2 teams to complete a trade. If nobody wants your prospects you can't make them trade for them.

And if other teams wanted to trade for them then the Twins FO wasn't the only one that didn't see they were trash.

So much logic here......great post.

If anyone thought they were worth trading for, then someone thought they were good prospects, and the FO wasn't the only team wrong.

If everyone agreed they weren't good, you can't trade them.

Also, I'd think they'd need a year to watch and assess players, so no one was going to be traded in year one most likely. By then, did anyone think Stewart, Jay, or Gonsalves were good prospects other than people on TD? 

Finally, there is a big difference between NO BLAME, and the blame mostly being on the FO that drafted those players. The Twins blew three top 10 picks. That almost seems impossible.

[wsnydes]

One thing to consider is that prospect rankings are based on the quality of the rest of the league's prospects too.  Just because they're top 100, doesn't automatically make them good players, just good relatively speaking.  It's entirely possible that the years these guys were ranked were down years talentwise league wide.  Someone with more knowledge of such things would need to opine on that.  That's beyond my knowledge base.

[TwinsDr2021]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

What if the FO saw they were trash and tried to trade them but other teams also saw they were trash so they couldn't trade them and they were forced to do what they could to improve them and then move on? Not saying the FO doesn't deserve some blame, but it takes 2 teams to complete a trade. If nobody wants your prospects you can't make them trade for them.

And if other teams wanted to trade for them then the Twins FO wasn't the only one that didn't see they were trash.

I don't believe that, I also don't believe they thought they were garbage. IMO they thought they would be decent starting pitchers and maybe better, and they were the bridge to the new pitchers they had just drafted and would be drafting. I believe they think they are so smart (and you have to think that to be in that job, so I don't mean that as a negative) that with Berrios, Gibson a few smart trades and get free agents picks they could piece meal it together or even better end come up with the next Kluber, Bieber, Bauer, Clevinger.  It pretty much worked to win the division titles, and fell apart year, but next year will be the real question, if they can turn the ship back around, they deserve to keep their jobs, if not, so long. I don't think you can be allowed to mismanage assets for that long and keep your job. and two terrible years in a row, does just that. I mean do you think they signed Donaldson for 1 year of contending and 3 years of rebuilding? I don't but one down year out of 4, now that isn't wasting that asset which in this case is money.

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I don't believe that, I also don't believe they thought they were garbage. IMO they thought they would be decent starting pitchers and maybe better, and they were the bridge to the new pitchers they had just drafted and would be drafting. I believe they think they are so smart (and you have to think that to be in that job, so I don't mean that as a negative) that with Berrios, Gibson a few smart trades and get free agents picks they could piece meal it together or even better end come up with the next Kluber, Bieber, Bauer, Clevinger.  It pretty much worked to win the division titles, and fell apart year, but next year will be the real question, if they can turn the ship back around, they deserve to keep their jobs, if not, so long. I don't think you can be allowed to mismanage assets for that long and keep your job. and two terrible years in a row, does just that. I mean do you think they signed Donaldson for 1 year of contending and 3 years of rebuilding? I don't but one down year out of 4, now that isn't wasting that asset which in this case is money.

My point was simply that they weren't the only FO to view their prospects whichever way they viewed them. Now that doesn't absolve them of blame, but it does mean that they weren't doing something ridiculous. Either they thought their prospects were good and didn't trade them when they had offers (which means other teams viewed them as good as well) or they thought their prospects were bad and tried to trade them but couldn't (which means other teams thought they were bad as well, but you can't trade someone nobody wants). 

Your complaint was that they weren't able to see they had bad prospects that they should have traded. So they should have trade them to some other team that also didn't see they were bad prospects and the FO is stupid for holding the same opinion the rest of the league, or at least part of it, held. If your pitching prospects are thought of well enough that other teams are willing to give up something of value for them then it's reasonable that you also thought well of your prospects. There's nothing to "believe" in any of this. It's simply logic. I have no idea if they thought they were garbage or not, but the idea that they should have traded garbage prospects for ML value has no logic in it. That argument is that the Twins FO should be smarter than every other FO in baseball. So when other teams see value the Twins should be so much smarter they know there's no real value there. That's an unreasonable ask.

[TwinsDr2021]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Your complaint was that they weren't able to see they had bad prospects that they should have traded to some other team that also didn't see they were bad prospects and the FO is stupid for holding the same opinion the rest of the league, or at least part of it, held.

My actual complaint is they didn't do crap at the deadlines when they had assets and when they were in the process of winning the divisions, and those assets just went away and they got nothing. So the basically pissed them away, I am a realist, I understand most prospects don't pan out and I also understand a team like MN might not get a bunch of chances to win in the playoffs, so I say trade (when you have assets) to at least try to get more of an advantage in the playoffs.

But again I am a person that would have traded Lewis, Rooker, Enlow and just about any other prospect rated lower than them for Greinke, Gallen, Bauer (that would have been hard to do in division) or Stroman,

 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

My actual complaint is they didn't do crap at the deadlines when they had assets and when they were in the process of winning the divisions, and those assets just went away and they got nothing. So the basically pissed them away, I am a realist, I understand most prospects don't pan out and I also understand a team like MN might not get a bunch of chances to win in the playoffs, so I say trade (when you have assets) to at least try to get more of an advantage in the playoffs.

But again I am a person that would have traded Lewis, Rooker, Enlow and just about any other prospect rated lower than them for Greinke, Gallen, Bauer (that would have been hard to do in division) or Stroman,

 

I share that frustration, but that is 100% not the same as your original post. But yes, I agree, they should have been more aggressive in 2019 at the deadline.

[Brock Beauchamp]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I share that frustration, but that is 100% not the same as your original post. But yes, I agree, they should have been more aggressive in 2019 at the deadline.

I think most of us were mildly/very disappointed at the 2019 deadline. They were a top five team with 3-4 teams clearly ahead of them, yet did very little to improve their standing in the pecking order of MLB.

[chpettit19]

31 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

My actual complaint is they didn't do crap at the deadlines when they had assets and when they were in the process of winning the divisions, and those assets just went away and they got nothing. So the basically pissed them away, I am a realist, I understand most prospects don't pan out and I also understand a team like MN might not get a bunch of chances to win in the playoffs, so I say trade (when you have assets) to at least try to get more of an advantage in the playoffs.

But again I am a person that would have traded Lewis, Rooker, Enlow and just about any other prospect rated lower than them for Greinke, Gallen, Bauer (that would have been hard to do in division) or Stroman,

 

Ok, that is different than the complaint you made about them not knowing they had garbage prospects. I agree they should have been more aggressive in 2019 when they had a real shot at winning. Not blowing the system up, but definitely would've liked to see a deal for a legit arm to help out for the stretch runs and playoffs that year.

That's the only deadline I fault them for, though. Trading away a bunch of prospects in 2017 when they were still getting a feel for the org and where they were at doesn't seem smart. They weren't good enough in 2018, and 2020 was too crazy of a year to try to do anything crazy. But 2019 I would've liked to have seen a big swing.

[Dman]

This year has shaken my confidence but not to the point of being ready to fire them.  This FO is fresh off of a 2019 100 win season and 2020 division title so I am not sure why they need to be fired right away after having one losing season, The Pitching the Twins had before this FO came was always bottom of the league but with the Odo trade, Pineda FA acquisition and the emergence of Berrios and Gibson they jump started the starting pitching staff to the upper half of MLB.  Cruz was also a big FA 2019 acquisition. So the narrative the FO sat on their hands with the core they were given does not ring true to me at all. 

I too am waiting for that pitching pipeline to show up but as was already mentioned it is close and I would like to see how those 6 to 8 arms do at the MLB level before making any premature decisions.

I do have my concerns about their ability to evaluate pen arms.  They claimed a bunch of guys this year and it doesn't appear they helped any of them get better.  They traded a well regarded 4th outfielder for a pitcher that had a history of not being able to throw strikes and they already lost him.  Somehow they helped Dobnak get worse this year and they still can't seem to get Alcala on track.  The bad pitching from the rotation to the bullpen has sunk this team.  If the FO can't adjust and move things in the right direction then I might be with the pitchfork crowd.  For now let's see how the new guys work out.  Ober seems to be improving as does Jax.  They have to 6 to 8 legit arms to work through yet so odds are they can turn things around and I am willing to wait and see if they can do it.

[bean5302]

I have absolutely no confidence in the front office to turn this around because I have no confidence in the ownership. That said, I fully believe the Twins could compete next year if they wanted to.

[TwinsDr2021]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Ok, that is different than the complaint you made about them not knowing they had garbage prospects. I agree they should have been more aggressive in 2019 when they had a real shot at winning. Not blowing the system up, but definitely would've liked to see a deal for a legit arm to help out for the stretch runs and playoffs that year.

That's the only deadline I fault them for, though. Trading away a bunch of prospects in 2017 when they were still getting a feel for the org and where they were at doesn't seem smart. They weren't good enough in 2018, and 2020 was too crazy of a year to try to do anything crazy. But 2019 I would've liked to have seen a big swing.

Sorry my rant started with "Danchat" said "was more due to the complete and utter failures of Gonsalves, Jay, Stewart, Romero, and others"

and I responded - "So no blame goes to the FO, that can't see their highly rated prospects are garbage and it might be a good idea to trade them for some value, either other prospects or a pitcher at the deadline.

So yes I guess I can see how it turned into me saying they were garbage prospects and then a bunch of hypothetical's started., when in reality that wasn't my opinion, seeing the previous posts in this thread I was saying how highly rated the prospects were.

and also I agree 17 probably was not the year to trade away prospects they hadn't seen as they had said the plan was to be sustain winning.

 

I quoted the wrong person, and I apologize to Dman

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

I have absolutely no confidence in the front office to turn this around because I have no confidence in the ownership. That said, I fully believe the Twins could compete next year if they wanted to.

It's really easy to make a sweeping statement.  How are they going to ...

1) Replace 4 spots in the starting rotation

2) Turn a horrible BP into a contender

3) Keep Buxton on the field.  More a statement of risk than an actual question.

4) Replace Cruz in the lineup

5) Keep a 36 yo Donaldson healthy and producing at a high level

6) Replace the SS.

7) Get Sano to produce on a remotely consistent basis

We could also add get Larnach back on track and Rodgers back in form to the risks.  I guess we should add get this done for under $150M which would be a hard sell after two horrible years financially given the risk level of getting back to any form of serious contention.

 

[Major League Ready]

What I like least about this FO is they have put very little weight on athleticism and defense.  They also let Gil, Anderson and Tyler Wells go.  Those are dings.  I can't blame them for Baddoo.  That was very hard to see coming.

I have no problem with what they did this year.  Many here forget the Two most popular choices for pitching moves were Odorizzi in free agency and trading for Snell which would have been a disaster.  Odorizzi has been mediocre and would have done nothing to change the fate of this team.  Bauer was not even a remote possibility.  Charlie Morton has long been one of my favorites but his preference to stay in the SE is well-known.  Gausman accepted a qualifying offer.  So who were the great options they did not land?  There is also a matter of being realistic about spending.  $130M was higher than I expected.

My opinion will be greatly influenced by what happens with the starting pitching prospects between now and 2022 and how well they rebuild a very bad BP.

[bean5302]

22 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

It's really easy to make a sweeping statement.

 

How confident are you in the FO to turn this around? 

That was the question posed. I answered the question. Yes, it was easy

[Linus]

A lot of comments on the poor pitching this FO inherited. If memory serves they inherited Berrios Gibson May Duffy Preslly Rodgers and I might be missing one. Doesn’t sound like nothing to me. 
 

when do we stop blaming people that haven’t been around for 5 years?