What Problem Do You Want to Address with 50% of the Season Left?

[Vanimal46]

We’ve tossed around a lot of ideas about trades before the deadline. All of that is out of our control at the end of the day. Let’s discuss something different…

The roster is flawed, regardless of who is traded before the end of July. Here are a couple of examples that stick out to me:

- Choose one for 2B: Polanco or Arraez. 

- Is there a super utility player in the organization? Arraez isn’t it. Could Gordon be the guy?

- Can we solve the back of the rotation problem internally? I like to think one or more of the Sands, Ober, and Winder trio could be a #5 in the rotation as soon as 2022. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

That strange rash on my upper back.

Oh ****, wait. Are we talking about baseball?

[twinssporto]

Here's my take: Arraez at 2B. No super utility guy in the organization, choose a free agent (Gordon might work). Forget the back of the rotation, we need a bullpen. Bring up the youth. Throw everything against the wall and see what sticks. 

I know nothing though. Just my take.

[Vanimal46]

8 minutes ago, twinssporto said:

Here's my take: Arraez at 2B. No super utility guy in the organization, choose a free agent (Gordon might work). Forget the back of the rotation, we need a bullpen. Bring up the youth. Throw everything against the wall and see what sticks. 

I know nothing though. Just my take.

I’m good with that, especially in regards to the bullpen. They’re the kings of SSS and fickle each year, so fly those guys through the system. 

[twinssporto]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

I’m good with that, especially in regards to the bullpen. They’re the kings of SSS and fickle each year, so fly those guys through the system. 

Agreed! Grab these young arms in the system for the bullpen and see what happens. You'll usually find a gem in a bunch...

[lecroy24fan]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

We’ve tossed around a lot of ideas about trades before the deadline. All of that is out of our control at the end of the day. Let’s discuss something different…

The roster is flawed, regardless of who is traded before the end of July. Here are a couple of examples that stick out to me:

- Choose one for 2B: Polanco or Arraez. 

- Is there a super utility player in the organization? Arraez isn’t it. Could Gordon be the guy?

- Can we solve the back of the rotation problem internally? I like to think one or more of the Sands, Ober, and Winder trio could be a #5 in the rotation as soon as 2022. 

I'd go as far as to say Ober is already #5.

[TheLeviathan]

Getting Nick Gordon in the lineup every day at his best position, whatever that is.

[Mike Sixel]

14 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Getting Nick Gordon in the lineup every day at his best position, whatever that is.

Ya, I'd like to see him play a lot more. Get some more data. He's healthy and mature. 

[Tim]

I’d like to see Elijah Green. Termarr Johnson would be a nice consolation though.

[Vanimal46]

12 hours ago, lecroy24fan said:

I'd go as far as to say Ober is already #5.

Possibly, if he can keep it up the rest of the season. This trio of guys appear to be better than the Thorpe, Smeltzer, Dobnak trio that we were hoping would be back of the rotation guys. 

[jorgenswest]

I would like to see Arraez at 3B more. I think it might be his best position.

I need to see if Larnach can play a passable corner outfield. The White Sox really took advantage of his slow reaction time and limited range reminding me of Josh Willingham.

I am not selling low on Sanó or Kepler. I don’t expect either to be a star but closer to league average play will help this team going forward.

There are reasonable questions about Gordon at SS. I wonder how much his health struggles the previous three years showed up in his defense. He appears healthy and stronger now. It might be worth investing some innings at shortstop.

I hope they push any of the young pitchers some. Give them opportunities to work out of a jam. Push their pitch count up. Allow them some high leverage opportunities. Risk letting them fail even if it means a few more losses. 

[twinfan]

We need 3 starters and 3 relievers. The hitting will be ok though if we lose Cruz it will take a hit. So start Dobnack 6 more times if he can return before August. If he fails, dump him and eat his contract. Ober looks good but we'll see how he goes the rest of the way. Even in the game he won, the team was laying off his "out" pitch after the fourth inning. We may trade Pineda at the deadline so bring up 2-3 minor leaguers (Balazovic?) to start games and a couple of relievers. We need to see where these guys are going forward but several are injured. And if they don't play Arreaz everyday,  even if Polanco goes back to short, then management is dumber than a tree.

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, twinfan said:

We need 3 starters and 3 relievers. The hitting will be ok though if we lose Cruz it will take a hit. So start Dobnack 6 more times if he can return before August. If he fails, dump him and eat his contract. Ober looks good but we'll see how he goes the rest of the way. Even in the game he won, the team was laying off his "out" pitch after the fourth inning. We may trade Pineda at the deadline so bring up 2-3 minor leaguers (Balazovic?) to start games and a couple of relievers. We need to see where these guys are going forward but several are injured. And if they don't play Arreaz everyday,  even if Polanco goes back to short, then management is dumber than a tree.

A tree isn't dumb , it bares fruit,, the front office hasn't shown any fruits so yes it is dumber than a tree ,, 

They started the season with the thought of replacing a left fielder  , also really failed in the super utility player  and  their choices for pitching ( happ being OK only because he's lefthanded  ) ,, they better wake up on the dumpster pile ,

Average pitching is not going to win in playoffs  , I could go on but you know  the rest of the story .

[DocBauer]

I like this thread idea! 

1] Keep Ober on the bump every 5th day! He probably won't be a STUD, but he has control some wicked moving stuff, deception, and new velocity. Quit arguing about IP! The Twins are working him in and ramping him up. 

2] When Dobnak is healthy, get him out there. He flashed a little late in 2019. He looked really good in 2020. He looked great in ST this year, FWIW, but has been bounced between starting and relieving and some injuries. Are we so focused on a disappointing season that we can ONLY see bad performance vs good performance? Let him be healthy and take the mound and see what he can do. You realize he's barely beyond ROOKIE status, right? Right?

3] When Happ is gone, and probably Pineda as well, there is room in the rotation. A lot of people want Barnes. He's actually been promoted fairly aggressively, so the Twins see something they like. Unfortunately, I just don't see it right now. I just don't see enough STUFF. I could be wrong. He may have earned a shot. ButWinder and Duran....assuming full healthy....should be part of the 2nd half rotation. Whether you go a 6 man rotation or not, or piggyback some games, run with 6 SO.

4] Just quit believing Colome is going to find himself again and forget his option year. Let him go, He MIGHT find himself next year with a different organization. But sometimes guys just don't work out or fit. Move on, Bring up Hamilton. He's a former top prospect who has gone through hell and back but has been doing well at AAA.  Give him a shot. Promote the BP arms at AA Wichita to AAA and give them a shot. Injuries across the board, and I'm sure we're not the only team, have made us grab waiver wire pitchers to help, fill in, and carry some hope  of a surprise. But trust in your system post 2020 and let a few guys surprise you! You are NOT going to build a super bullpen for 2022 with your milb talent! But you COULD find an arm or two who surprises at some point. Farrell and Law COULD be part of 2022 with a few smart additions. But if you are truly looking ahead, just recognize you have a handful or arms who might help next year and get them the experience they need to get ready.

5] The roster for 2022, IMO, needs a 5th OF who can play a decent OF and be a solid producer at the plate. Kepler should be a 120 game player in RF and backup CF. But he needs a partner. Do they have that partner in Rooker or Garlic or Refsnyder?  This is a spot I want to see auditioned. Either we have a real option here or we need to find one, 

6] And thjs is where you will see me really argue against Rocco and the FO. Gordon! How in hell can we protect Gordon, believe in Gordon, play Gordon at SS primarily through his milb development,  play him at SS in ST, and refuse to play him at SS at the ML level?

On the fly he's learned to play CF and looked at least competent at doing so. And the Twins probably need to find a full time SS so Polanco can remain as a potential stud at 2B, while still being able to fill in competently at SS. But why in hell isnt Grodon allowed to play SS at the ML level at this point?

SOMEBODY is being really stupid at this point

[Thegrin]

We have 1/2 the season to play. I ain't givin up on nuthin!  ?

[Rosterman]

At some point, sooner rather than later, STOP playing players who won't be with the organization in 2022. Can't wait to see how they handle the outfield mess when Cave, Refsnyder and soon after that Garlick are activated. I would still rather see Celestino as the 5th, for now.

 

You gotta cut bait with unproductive possible free agents.

 

Okay, then we also have to address the pitchcount of any starter wannabees. But, hey, look how many will break 100 innings if they only pitch five inning every 5th day for the remainder of the season. Hey, tag team at some point, right? Of bring back The Opener.

 

Arraez plays everyday!

[old nurse]

I want them to fix the problem that there are not 8 decent pitchers in the minors

[stringer bell]

The club has to find answers to their pitching problems, both rotation and bullpen. 

Two rookies they need to find out about are Gordon and Jeffers. I think the Twins are convinced Jeffers can handle catcher defensively, but he does need to hit above the Mendoza line. Regarding Gordon, his speed is an asset they are lacking, but I think he needs to prove he can hit and it also remains to be seen if he is truly versatile. To me, Gordon's future and his value revolve his ability to play shortstop.

[TopGunn#22]

Oh there are a BUNCH of things, and many of you have already mentioned them.

Arraez:  Play him every day he's healthy and bat him leadoff.  If we are able to deal Donaldson at the deadline make Arraez the everyday 3B.  If not, play him primarily at 2B and 3B (Donaldson will be "hurt" several more times).  

Simmons:  Trade him, then play Gordon more consistently.  Gordon and Polanco can split SS/2B innings and Gordon can play some additional games in CF.  (Buxton will be hurt "several" more times the remainder of this season).  But I get Gordon out there more consistently and hit him 9th.

If Simmons is dealt, then Polanco and Gordon are splitting SS and Polanco and Arraez are splitting 2B.  Polanco, Arraez and Gordon are ALL on the Twins in 2022.

Sano:  Trade him for a bag of baseballs or buy out his option.  It's time to cut bait on Mr. "K" the rally killer.  Kiriloff and maybe Garver are our 1B-man going forward.

Pitching:  What a Mess !  I doubt we end up trading Berrios or Rogers unless a trade haul like the Dodgers (Dustin May) or Padres (Ryan Weathers) presents itself.  So assuming both remain with the Twins:  Trade Pineda and Robles.  Trade or release Happ.  Put Ober and Dobnak at the back end of your rotation and start moving some of the young arms (Winder, Balazovic) up and get them some Major League innings.  I'd be excited to see Canterino and Duran if they can get healthy.  At this point, I just hang on to Colome.  We have an option for next year.  We'll get nothing for him at the deadline.  I'd just keep throwing him out there in low-leverage situations for the rest of the year and determine this off-season if he's part of our BP in 2022.  We still need a guy like Rosenthal or Yates at the back end.  If Colome is part of our 2022 BP he's pitching in the 6th inning primarily.  Maybe he bounces back to his norm in 2022.  

(Side Note for 2022 off-season)   GET A SHORTSTOP !!  (Story or more likely Baez).

Have a "promotion" where the Twins hand out Rosaries to every fan that comes through the turnstiles for the rest of this season.  During the game, between innings, fans will be encouraged to say a decade of the Rosary for future team success and for future and continued health for Byron Buxton.  If that is too over the top, we will confine this promotion to only Sunday home games.  But certainly SOMETHING must be done to insure Buxton stays healthy and PLAYS.     

 

[lukeduke1980]

I'll echo TopGun- organizationally try to figure out how to keep Buxton on the field, but also on the team long term,  and who could contribute in the 80 games he's going to miss be that Gordon or a free agent.  

[Major League Ready]

1. Cut Cave.  Send Larnach and Celestino down. 
2. Play a combination of Buxton / Kepler / Garlick / Kirilloff / Refsnyder / Gordon in the outfield.  Let’s get a better idea what we have in Gordon / Refsnyder.  The two of them would be a nice combination of utility players
3. Trade Cruz.  He deserves a shot at a ring.  Use the roster spot for the players mentioned in #2.  A good return would be nice too.
4. Trade Simmons – Play Gordon a SS.  Maybe even give Palacios a few ABs.
5. Start Ober every 5 days until his reached his innings limit.
6. Trade Pineda and Happ and audition Winder.
7. Give anyone else they feel is ready an audition.  I am not convinced Duran is ready and Barnes does not look like a ML pitcher to me.  Perhaps Balazovic a little later in the season and Canterino / Sands if they are healthy.
8. Audition some BP arms.
9. Maybe give Rooker a shot for a couple weeks.

[Vanimal46]

Since the start of this thread we’ve gathered data on a couple of things. Nick Gordon is okay at best as the super utility guy. Clearly they have no confidence at all he can play SS in the majors. 

Polanco has solidified himself as the team MVP and a lock at 2B. Arraez should be the one dangled in trade talks over the offseason. 

Thorpe is on rehab assignment (I think) and we need to gather as much data as possible over the next 8 weeks. He’s out of options next year, so it is imperative to see if he can stick as a starter, long or short reliever. 

I want to read about Refsnyder whenever he returns from injury. He played well enough in 20 some games to see if he’s worth rostering for 2022. 

Buxton should be coming back soon ?

[wsnydes]

7 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Since the start of this thread we’ve gathered data on a couple of things. Nick Gordon is okay at best as the super utility guy. Clearly they have no confidence at all he can play SS in the majors. 

Polanco has solidified himself as the team MVP and a lock at 2B. Arraez should be the one dangled in trade talks over the offseason. 

Thorpe is on rehab assignment (I think) and we need to gather as much data as possible over the next 8 weeks. He’s out of options next year, so it is imperative to see if he can stick as a starter, long or short reliever. 

I want to read about Refsnyder whenever he returns from injury. He played well enough in 20 some games to see if he’s worth rostering for 2022. 

Buxton should be coming back soon ?

Agreed on Polanco, Arraez and Refsnyder.  At this point in the season, it probably makes a lot of sense to try to see how the position player pieces fit in the puzzle as much as possible.  Injuries will still play into that, but there are some things they can still sort out.  To that end, it probably makes some sense to sit Simmons, shift Polanco back to SS for now, and showcase Arraez at 2B.  It'll get harder to evaluate Refsnyder once (if?) Buxton comes back and Larnach is still on the roster.

If Donaldson can't get his hamstring to quit barking, then they should IL him and bring up Miranda or play Arraez there.  

[Major League Ready]

33 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

Agreed on Polanco, Arraez and Refsnyder.  At this point in the season, it probably makes a lot of sense to try to see how the position player pieces fit in the puzzle as much as possible.  Injuries will still play into that, but there are some things they can still sort out.  To that end, it probably makes some sense to sit Simmons, shift Polanco back to SS for now, and showcase Arraez at 2B.  It'll get harder to evaluate Refsnyder once (if?) Buxton comes back and Larnach is still on the roster.

If Donaldson can't get his hamstring to quit barking, then they should IL him and bring up Miranda or play Arraez there.  

Polanco needs to stay at 2B IMO.  I would trade either Donaldson or Arraez during the off-season.  I would prefer it be Donaldson.  Arraez would provide a transition and back-up plan for Miranda.   By 2023 the Infield is 1B Kirilloff / 2B Polanco /  3B Miranda and SS is Martin or Lewis.   

[wsnydes]

3 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Polanco needs to stay at 2B IMO.  I would trade either Donaldson or Arraez during the off-season.  I would prefer it be Donaldson.  Arraez would provide a transition and back-up plan for Miranda.   By 2023 the Infield is 1B Kirilloff / 2B Polanco /  3B Miranda and SS is Martin or Lewis.   

That's my preference for Polanco as well.  I really don't like him at SS, but could tolerate it for the remainder of this season if it helps figure out the 2022 alignment.

I keep waffling on this, but today I'm indifferent on trading Donaldson.  I'd deal Arraez since I don't really know where to play him and perhaps Miranda could learn a thing or two from Donaldson.

[Sousy]

2 hours ago, wsnydes said:

That's my preference for Polanco as well.  I really don't like him at SS, but could tolerate it for the remainder of this season if it helps figure out the 2022 alignment.

I keep waffling on this, but today I'm indifferent on trading Donaldson.  I'd deal Arraez since I don't really know where to play him and perhaps Miranda could learn a thing or two from Donaldson.

Agree on Polanco - 2B seems to be a natural fit.  The organization does need to figure out where a number of players will fit.  There's such a glut of players that are natural 'corner guys' or suffer from particular mobility issues (Arraez) that should keep them in corner positions and not as much depth at SS/2B/CF type of players.

[ashbury]

We entered the past off-season with a glut of players (on the major league squad or knocking on the door) whose best position is second base.  We still have that glut, with the trading period now closed, and no apparent indication that any decisions have been made - merely futile attempts to find other positions for those players.  I guess we can hope that something emerges the rest of this season that turns into action during the coming off-season.

Similar story with corner bats, now that I mention it.

And the flaw in the implicit strategy by the FO is that surpluses at these positions do not turn into trade bait for strong players up the middle with team control. Because other teams have plenty of players at those positions too.

This summarizes my misgivings about Austin Martin being the centerpiece of the Berrios trade. We're going to waste a lot of time trying him at SS and CF, and discover that while his bat will play the glove will have to push aside someone else at a non-premium position, whose bat also plays.  And after the dust settles we're not going to be able to package, say, Trevor Larnach and Luis Arraez and get a diifference-maker on the mound, anyway - because again other teams have prospects and players like those too.  Simeon Woods Richardson had oughta better pan out.

This roster is showing hardening of the arteries similar to what was under the previous regime, encapsulated by the flippant observation "and if all else fails, he can DH."

Use the rest of the season to address this, bit by bit by bit.

[Mike Sixel]

38 minutes ago, ashbury said:

We entered the past off-season with a glut of players (on the major league squad or knocking on the door) whose best position is second base.  We still have that glut, with the trading period now closed, and no apparent indication that any decisions have been made - merely futile attempts to find other positions for those players.  I guess we can hope that something emerges the rest of this season that turns into action during the coming off-season.

Similar story with corner bats, now that I mention it.

And the flaw in the implicit strategy by the FO is that surpluses at these positions do not turn into trade bait for strong players up the middle with team control. Because other teams have plenty of players at those positions too.

This summarizes my misgivings about Austin Martin being the centerpiece of the Berrios trade. We're going to waste a lot of time trying him at SS and CF, and discover that while his bat will play the glove will have to push aside someone else at a non-premium position, whose bat also plays.  And after the dust settles we're not going to be able to package, say, Trevor Larnach and Luis Arraez and get a diifference-maker on the mound, anyway - because again other teams have prospects and players like those too.  Simeon Woods Richardson had oughta better pan out.

This roster is showing hardening of the arteries similar to what was under the previous regime, encapsulated by the flippant observation "and if all else fails, he can DH."

Use the rest of the season to address this, bit by bit by bit.

The Twins just traded for Martin.....so some teams must put value on 2B types. Are we sure they don't have a decision on Arraez vs Polanco at this point? I bet they do.

 

[bean5302]

What problem do I want the Twins to address? Well, I really don't think they can address much at this point.

• SP4 & 5 - Ober keeps starting, Ryan need starts.
• Bullpen - Need to see Moran, Cano, Gore
• 3B - Call up Miranda
• SS - Call up Palacios
• UI - Call up Gordon
• UO - Keep starting Refsnyder

[gunnarthor]

Realistically, the Twins should have a pretty good offense again next year although what it looks like is still undetermined. (They need pitching and they have depth at the corners and at second base so I would look to move Kepler and whoever gets me more in Arraez/Polanco).

But for the rest of the season, Bean basically has it right. I'd add that, besides Ryan, I'd like to see Winder and Strotman get promoted.