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Nightengale: Lohse in 'Awkward' Spot as Boras Fumes


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Interesting article Kyle Lohse still being unsigned. Scott Boros also provides some entertaining quotes:

 

"The integrity of the game,'' Boras says, "is very damaged by this system. Draft dollars is the latest currency for GMs. And the best way to earn draft dollars is to sabotage your major-league team and finish last.''

 

"Before, teams never minded giving up a first round draft pick,'' Boras says, "because they still had the money to sign their players in the lower rounds. Now, you've taken away the structure of the scouting and developing. They have stolen our youth. They have kidnapped our children in this system.''

 

Nightengale: Kyle Lohse in 'awkward' spot as Boras fumes

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Most teams will not go out of their way to lose to get draft dollars because every loss contributes to fan attrition. The fan dollars are the real dollars to the owner. In general those teams losing that much are not going to spend the money on a top Boras client unless you are Miami trying to make your once every 10 year bid for a title.

 

Boras has to put this kind of spin on it. Lohse is coming off a career year and Boras more than likely wants him to get paid like Lohse will do it every year. I don't think there is a team out there that would do it now that the Yankees are retrenching. Boras made a mistake. Ryan Dempster received a 2 year contract at less per year than a qualifying offer, Lohse wouldn't get that kind of money regardless of the status

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Interesting article Kyle Lohse still being unsigned. Scott Boros also provides some entertaining quotes:

 

 

 

 

 

Nightengale: Kyle Lohse in 'awkward' spot as Boras fumes

 

Stolen our youth? Kidnapped our children? Yeah, it's horrible. These children get drafted to play baseball and if they end up even somewhat average (by MLB standards) they'll get paid MILLIONS of dollars...

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Why does this remind me of the guy who points a gun at your head and says, "If you don't do what I tell you I'll blow your head off, and it'll be YOUR FAULT!"?

 

If one of Boras's clients isn't getting the payday his agent promised him, then obviously the fault must be with the system, right?

 

Are you listening, Appel?

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I have to say that there is a slight flaw in the system. I think the flaw comes with the loss of the draft pick. Correct me if I am wrong but, in Lohse's situation, are the top 10 (?) picks protected so if a team in the top 10 picks of the draft sign Lohse they would lose their second round pick. Out of the teams picking in the top 10, maybe Boston would be the one team that would be alright with losing their pick. I think Cleveland lost their second round pick with the signing of Bourn. To me, this is where the flaw comes in. More often than not a team in the top 10 picks are in a rebuilding mode so drafting talent trumps the signing of a guy like Lohse. Is Lohse a good pitcher? I think so. Does it make sense for an organization like the Twins or Royals or Pirates or Rockies to sign him and lose a pick? I don't think so. Look at Seattle and San Diego. They are picking 12 and 13. Does it make sense to sign Lohse and lose that pick? I know if the Twins were picking there I wouldn't be happy if they lost their first round pick.

 

I haven't heard what Boars wants teams to cough up for Lohse for but for him to remain unsigned, I am guessing it is outragous. That in itself prices most teams out of the market. Kudos to the all the teams for not buying what Boras is selling.

 

In my opinion, I would rather roll the dice and take a guy like Barrios in the draft who may or may not become a solid MLB pitcher that sign Lohse who at this point really wouldn't make our roster that much better. The flip side to that though if we would have made a splash in free agency and sign a couple of quality pitchers, then maybe signing Lohse would be worth it.

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Boras is over the top,but I feel he does this so it gets picked up by the media and people look at what is going on, but he is absolutely correct, the current hard capping of draft picks etc is pretty ridiculous. There has to be a better way to allow teams who want to spend a little bit more money on the draft then others to be allowed to do so.

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I think there's something to what Boras is saying. Still he's more of a problem to the integrity of baseball then that rule change could ever be. Lohse is a fool to turn down a qualifying offer! Especially from a respectable team which is competitive every year like the Cardinals! STUPID and full of himself if he really thinks he's as good as his numbers last season. What bothers me more than him not getting the money he wants is that if he were a younger marginal pitcher he would get a huge contract he was undeserving of. They really need to reign in these contracts in baseball. Boras and the Yankee/RedSox spending wars have led to all this. Baseball needs a hard salary cap so there can be some parity.

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A qualifying offer is like 13 million! How in the world can you think Lohse is worth more than that? Boras is nuts. He should be blackballed by all the owners.

 

Have you seen what pitchers are signing for these days? Also as a SP its really all about the length and total dollar amount, since they are always one pitch away potentially from ending their careers.

 

Why should Boras be blackballed? He is the best at his job and looks out for his clients, the owners make **** loads of money, so I really have no issue with him holding out for his clients.

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Trying to blame all this on the draft pick compensation is crazy. Obviously Boras wants more than 13 million a year for Lohse's services which is so outlandish I don't know what to say. Lohse is average! He had 1 good year and it was largely luck that his record was so gaudy.

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Trying to blame all this on the draft pick compensation is crazy. Obviously Boras wants more than 13 million a year for Lohse's services which is so outlandish I don't know what to say. Lohse is average! He had 1 good year and it was largely luck that his record was so gaudy.

No...Boras wants more than a 1/13 contract for Lohse, which frankly, Lohse has earned.

 

It really has nothing to do with the "13 mil a year" you are talking about, for example: Which is a better contract for him to take 4 years/48 mil (12 mil per year) or 1 year 13 mil?

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This may be a dumb question (they say there's no such thing...but they're almost surely wrong): Having turned down the Cardinals' qualifying offer, is there any reason he can't sign with them? They're the one team that doesn't have to worry about losing a pick to sign him (I am guessing...they can't very well give up their own pick...to themselves). Would it be too much face-saving from both sides? Would Lohse/Boras feel too silly accepting a $10-12M contract after turning down a larger one? Would the Cardinals be justified in saying, "You didn't want $13M before, and now you want us to offer it to you again?" Could they compromise at a lower per year figure, but more total money? Or is this all moot if there's something in place that disallows him to sign there at all once he declines the qualifying offer?

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This may be a dumb question (they say there's no such thing...but they're almost surely wrong): Having turned down the Cardinals' qualifying offer, is there any reason he can't sign with them? They're the one team that doesn't have to worry about losing a pick to sign him (I am guessing...they can't very well give up their own pick...to themselves). Would it be too much face-saving from both sides? Would Lohse/Boras feel too silly accepting a $10-12M contract after turning down a larger one? Would the Cardinals be justified in saying, "You didn't want $13M before, and now you want us to offer it to you again?" Could they compromise at a lower per year figure, but more total money? Or is this all moot if there's something in place that disallows him to sign there at all once he declines the qualifying offer?

 

No there isn't. In fact 3 of the 9 players that declined the qualifying offer re-signed with their former team.

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It's not a coincidence that most of the strikeout pitchers signed early and the last couple of arms to sign were the soft tossers who were still effective. (29) Teams are moving away from guys who don't put up reasonable K rates, it's not a surprise that Lohse and Saunders were the last two of the higher profile arms to get picked up.

 

Besides, who knows what Boras and Lohse were asking for to start out with. Most people had Lohse ranked as the 3-5th best free agent pitcher, knowing his agent, he likely started out pricing him on par with the 2nd best pitcher if not higher. This is how Boras has always opperated, though surely it turns many teams off.

 

Also, only 3 pitchers signed deals of 4 years or more, only 4 signed deals of 3 years or more. Surely Lohse and Boras had thier sights set on multiple years but teams just aren't doing that for older pitchers anymore.

 

He probably would have been signed by now if a draft pick wasn't involved, BUT he also probably would have been signed by now if his agent wasn't Scott Boras pulling his regular Scott Boras manuevers. There's a reason why Edwin Jackson was last year's Kyle Lohse but now has a new agent. All I have to say is:

 

http://www.whited00r.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6888.0;attach=870;image

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The "system" isn't much different than it has been in the past. The current method just replaces the Type A FA classification that they had previously which also required the signing team to lose it's first round draft pick. The only real difference is you have to offer a qualifying offer instead of arbitration. Other than that it is pretty much the same. The form team takes the initial risk by making the qualifying offer (or offering arbitration). If the player accepts the team is on the hook for that 1 year salary. If the player declines, then he has to try to get the best deal that he can.

 

The problem is that Lohse is an average pitcher that happened to string 2 really good years together. That doesn't change the fact that he is 34 years old with a career ERA of 4.45. The problem isn't the system. Lohse made the mistake of declining the offer.

 

Cleveland is probably the only team that would sign him before the draft as they would only have to give up a 3rd rounder.

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Scott Boras may be good at getting huge contracts for his clients, but he's a dick.

 

Just like being a lawyer or any other agent being a "dick" at times is part of the job.

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A team purposely loses to get a high draft pick? Give me a break. You have to overpay for a high first rounder, and you have to fight to get them to sign with your losing team, which is where I draw the line of so many guys wanting to sign with a winner over a loser, who might, just might, offer you the possibility of hitting the majors sooner rather than later. he kicker is when a guy signs and then is traded a year or two later. This whole draft thing is out-of-whack, where unproven players gets hundreds of thousands (and now millions) and you look at Seth's recent eval of the Hicks draft and look at how many of the guys from each of the past decade are still in the Twins system...why do teams do this. Which is a whole 'nother story. The bigger argument, still, if free agent compensation, I guess. When can players JUST become a free agent and not tied to any compensation. The compensation exists so SOME teams just can't sign everyone and not suffer, maybe. I kinda liked the old A-B-who cares system, tied into draft picks, and not overrode if you were traded mid-season. I don't think the qualifying offer works. Yet the Twins got something (which people complain about) for Liriano by trading him, which is more than they would've gotten if they hadn't, plus the Twins didn't have to make a qualifying offer and had the ability to undersign him, which they lowballed too much (although Liriano really got lowballed in the end, it seems). Lohse can find a job. It is just a question of what team and how much money. He should've accepted St. Louis. Frankly, I would not give him a multi-year deal for anything like his agent is harping for.

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1) This provision of the CBA was negotiated by the owners...and players, right? It's not like ownership "imposed" this situation on Lohse. 2) Ownership made a calculated risk when they offered Lohse a qualifying offer. Lohse (and his agent) made a calculated risk when they turned it down. 3) Boras is a dick, as noted above. In sum: STFU, Scott.

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Boras has done well for his clients, often by getting teams to bid against themselves (see Manny Ramirez & the Dodgers).

I suspect the Cards have made an offer to Lohse, but it would be humiliating for Boras to take it, as it would not make him look good.

This was going to happen to one of his clients. Too bad for Lohse tht he is the guy.

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The CBA might be making Boras's job more stressful but I would be curious to know if he has actually done any worse by it. He's not actually panicking about Lohse, that seems to be a media narrative. It seems like typically one of the big names has gone down with TJ by this point in the spring. Whenever it finally happens this year, that will be Lohse's opening and he will get paid. Someone will blink.

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Boras obviously misread the market, which frankly doesn't happen very often with someone as good as he is.

 

Lohse will probably be waiting longer, at this point the only leverage they can claw back is if a contender has a big injury to a top guy.

 

TJ or bad rotator cuff and maybe Lohse can sign a decent length deal with less money per year and save some face.

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