Replacing the Twins Veterans After the Deadline

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Mark G said:

I guess I am showing my age, but I remember a time when that was pretty much all teams did; if I had a need in one area, and a surplus in another area, I would look for a team that needed what I have and have what I need.  If all I wanted to do was dump salary and wait for my farm to produce, I would sell contracts, not acquire more farm players.  If you could build a winning club by acquiring other teams draft choices and combining them with your own, who would give up theirs?  You trusted your scouts and draft team and filled holes through trades  I have always been a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of guy; looking back, I just don't see where it was broken, so I still feel it is the best way to go.  But you are probably right, no one else does it that way anymore.  

And I guess I am old enough to be very tired of always being the seller in July, then filling holes by buying 2nd tier free agents in the off season (the obvious exception being Cruz) and hope they regain their form for us.  

I think those types of trades are more likely to happen in the off-season than at the deadline.  We don't see quite as many of them as we used to as it hard to match up with years of service and the value both teams want.  I think with analytics it makes those MLB vet to MLB vet trades harder to do.  I like what you are thinking though.  I would consider the type of trade you are talking about for Donaldson.  If we had to take on the other teams 3rd baseman and add some money depending on the player, contract and years left I could see the Twins doing something like that. 

You are correct that the trend right now is to seek out high end prospects.  Prospects that look like they will make it at the MLB level and be above average there.  Those trades are full of risk because if the prospect(s) bust you just got nothing for a very good MLB player but that seems to be the way the game is played right now.

[Doctor Evil]

Any scenario where Sano is in the plans next year is going to make be want to veer in to a bridge.

[Mahoning]

Rooker is a terrible outfielder; Larnach is not too great either. They better hold onto Buxton and hope that the train of misfortunes has reached the station. Rocco doesn't seem to know what to do with Gordon, suggesting that he doesn't really have a position. But he sure can run. I'd rather see him in the lineup every day than Simmons because . . . what future does Simmons have? Are we waiting for the 15-game winning streak?

[insagt1]

Seems to me the Twins issue is not with the position players. Its the pitching. And finding those diamonds in the rough is difficult.

Would they trade Sano? Will they give up on Kepler and Simmons? With Buxton, will his injuries prevent the big payday that is expected? Is he happy staying a Twin? (reading the tea leaves, he sure doesn't sound real happy with Rocco)

Will Kirilloff make it thru the season without needing surgery? He's a very important cog. Will Donaldson go?

I think Twins need to find a regular spot for Gordon and Arraez going forward. Find out if they have a future in Minnesota. They are certainly decent talents.

Is Jeffers ready to be the #1? Can Garver bounce back...maybe not as a catcher.

Celestino and Rooker definitely NOT ready for prime time in 2021. How high are the Twins on those two?

Any reason to keep Colome? Happ? Is Robles reliable enough?

2021 may be a lost cause, but are we to also expect 2022 to be the same...as a 'rebuilding' year? Do the Twins really need to rebuild? Or just tweak and hope they couldn't possibly be as unlucky with key injuries next year? The bullpen has cost us a lot of games this year. Focus on that.

 

[DocBauer]

#1] Barnes has been promoted more aggressively than I ever expected. I just can't believe this is convenience simply because they needed a AAA arm. Not NOW, but you have to consider giving him a shot before the year is done. Maybe Jax as well. There will be holes and opportunity. 

#2] Winder is just about ready for a AAA stretch promotion and a late season audition. Don't hold him back. Let him get his feet wet, much like Ober, and take some lumps if necessary, and get him ready for 2022. Hopefully the same for Duran if his injury is mild. Really hoping Sands will be OK and get at least a 2nd half at AAA.  There are a trio of RP at Wichita that need to move up, at least after the draft, and get AAA work with the idea of at least progressing. 

#3] Play Gordon, and play him at SS as well. You see enough in him to protect/keep him. SSS notwithstanding, you are seeing potential and ability at this point, worthy of keeping him on the 26 man roster. Athletically, he would seem to have the ability to play SS. He was drafted as a SS. He has continued to play SS in the minors as well as ST just this year. He supposedly doesn't have the arm to be a pure SS. And yet, he continues to play SS in the minors and ST. Could an offseason of gaining his weight and strength back help his arm as well as his bat? 

I fully appreciate the idea of a contending team, or even a team shooting for .500 plus thinking Polanco is the 2nd best SS option. But aren't we now coming in to the evaluation and development phase for the rest of the year? How can you possibly play him at SS at AAA and ST, and then believe in his athleticism enough to transition him to CF with ONLY practice time and NOT also play him at SS to see what you have?

I am NOT saying I believe Gordon is a starting ML SS. But I believe the ability is there to be at least a viable backup option there. If not, if he truly stinks, then why has he been playing the position in the first place the past few years? 

Let the kid play 2B/SS/CF and see what you have. This is the perfect time to see who he is and might be. If you don't,  NOW I begin to wonder what the FO and coaching staff are thinking. 

[Thegrin]

Firstly. If the Twins take 3 of 4 from the Indians they will have a .500 record for June. A positive July will put them in the playoff picture, and they won't want to trade these vets.

Secondly. The eye test says that Sano has become a pretty darn good First baseman. If Donaldson were to go, let Sano play 3rd. I bet he will do fine if he plays everyday. 

[LA VIkes Fan]

Two thoughts. Replace Simmons with Gordon until he shows you he can’t play shortstop and then move over Polanco. I’ve been advocating on other threads to trade Josh Donaldson even if it’s just a salary dump and includes money, and that would create a place for Arraez to start every day. Regardless, it’s a developmental year so let’s play Gordon at shortstop for 30-40 games and see if he can play the spot. We need to know.

Next, why trade Robles? Let’s re-sign him for something like two years/$6 -$9 million. He’s not going to fetch a huge return and frankly is more valuable to us as a quality bullpen arm than he’s likely to be to anybody else. Keep him and between Rogers, Robles, Alcala, and Duffy, we actually have the outlines of a decent back end of a bullpen.

Trade Cruz, Donaldson, Simmons and, if he’s healthy enough, Pineda. Replace them with Sano/Garver/Rooker/guys getting the day off in the field, Arraez, Gordon, and Barnes/Winder/Duran, respectively. Trade Happ if you can find a taker. Keep Colome In the hope that he rebounds to what he used to be since he has an option at the end of his contract and we aren’t going anywhere anyway, and it doesn’t look like he’s blocking anybody. Trade Kepler if the return is there. Get some relief innings for Cano, Ian Hamilton, Andrew Vasquez, and Moran in the second half.

The rest of this year could be fun and productive if we get with the program and develop our guys/evaluate talent.  Let’s get this party started!

 

 

[old nurse]

On 6/23/2021 at 12:55 PM, AceWrigley said:

Designated swinger.

I do recall he got into a little trouble being the designated “swinger” a couple of years ago at a mall. As I recall, he whiffed that time,too. 

[RpR]

From 2010 to 2018 the twins only had two respectable years; in 2019 it was quality veterans that were a big reason they did as well as they did.

Odds are all  the hype of bring up blah, blah, blah because he looks good in the minors will just be return of 2011 to 2018 , at best.

I want to a winning or at least .500 team not year, after year, after year of losing while miracle dudes from the minors are mediocre most of the time.

[darwin22]

On 6/23/2021 at 10:00 AM, Alex Schieferdecker said:

The best starting pitching prospect still standing in the Twins organization is Josh Winder.

If the team moves Pineda, they should certainly give Barnes a look because he's been pitching well in AAA, but Winder ought to be right behind him after what he's done in AA this year.

In terms of relievers, Ian Hamilton, Danny Coulombe, or Yennier Cano from AAA will merit looks, as will Jovani Moran from AA.

Alex:  Spot on with your analysis.  Winder has nothing left to prove at AA as he's made 10 starts---9 of those with 2 ER or less allowed.  Barnes should be given first opportunity quickly followed by Winder.  I've personally seen enough of Thorpe so I'd like to see what Cano and Moran could offer.  Moran might take a little longer as I think I noticed he was recently placed on IL.  Having seen Moran pitch recently in Wichita------he's got some filthy stuff which hopefully will play at higher levels. I also don't see any downside to bringing Hamilton and Columbe (sp) up as I've seen little to be impressed by Jax and others.

[Johnny Ringo]

Folks, don't get too excited over moving Cruz, Simmons, Pineda and Robles. Remember all other 29 teams already had a shot at them. You will get VERY little in return. Any major leaguers offered in exchange will look like food at closing time at a mall buffet.  Sano can't be traded because of his contract. Ditto on Donaldson. Kepler, Buck, and Berrios are what teams want, especially Jose but I suspect none will be traded. Berrios is a tough one for the FO. By all accounts, he has Cole and Bauer salary numbers on his mind. That sets up a game of chicken for the respective parties as the deadline looms.