POLL: Is it time to cut ties with Derek Falvey and Thad Levine?

[JW24]

The 2019 season might be the worst thing to happen to this front office; they opened the window of serious contention a year or two earlier than they anticipated, and now that the team they have created hasn't performed people are calling for them to be fired. That is insane to me.

This is the most competent front office the Twins have ever had. Firing them would be a massive mistake. It isn't like Theo Epstein or Andrew Friedman are going to come knocking if the Twins job opens up. If you are arguing to fire one or both, I would like to hear who you think will replace Falvey and Levine, why they would be an improvement, and why they would consider taking the Twins job.

As abysmal as this season is, compounding it by making rash decisions like firing the front office sets the team back further than one season.

[Dodecahedron]

8 minutes ago, JW24 said:

The 2019 season might be the worst thing to happen to this front office; they opened the window of serious contention a year or two earlier than they anticipated, and now that the team they have created hasn't performed people are calling for them to be fired. That is insane to me.

Sure, but look at the poll results.  Currently, only 24% of respondents want to fire anybody.

I will say that the longer we watch the dumpster fire, the more this number will grow.  Unless something crazy happens, firing either of them still won't be the majority opinion by the end of the year.

[JW24]

3 minutes ago, Dodecahedron said:

I will say that the longer we watch the dumpster fire, the more this number will grow. 

The number should not change based on the Twins W-L record the rest of the season, unless the unthinkable happens and the Twins make the playoffs. If the percentage of people in favor of firing Falvey and Levine grow, it should be because they failed to improve the 2022 outlook before the trade deadline.

[Dodecahedron]

8 minutes ago, JW24 said:

The number should not change based on the Twins W-L record the rest of the season, unless the unthinkable happens and the Twins make the playoffs. If the percentage of people in favor of firing Falvey and Levine grow, it should be because they failed to improve the 2022 outlook before the trade deadline.

Logically, yes.  But remember we are all human and grating things tend to increase in their level of annoyance after a while. 

[wsnydes]

17 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

When Polanco’s ankle is healthy, he’s all-star shortstop. He had problems with too many errors, changed his throwing motion and made some spectacular plays in 2019 - great range. 

He was an All-Star for his bat though.  He just happened to play SS.  He committed 22 errors in 2019, a career high.  He's always been better suited for 2B.  His arm isn't good enough for SS.  

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, JW24 said:

The 2019 season might be the worst thing to happen to this front office; they opened the window of serious contention a year or two earlier than they anticipated, and now that the team they have created hasn't performed people are calling for them to be fired. That is insane to me.

This is the most competent front office the Twins have ever had. Firing them would be a massive mistake. It isn't like Theo Epstein or Andrew Friedman are going to come knocking if the Twins job opens up. If you are arguing to fire one or both, I would like to hear who you think will replace Falvey and Levine, why they would be an improvement, and why they would consider taking the Twins job.

As abysmal as this season is, compounding it by making rash decisions like firing the front office sets the team back further than one season.

I've been hard on the FO for a while now, and I have stated that a change at the highest level should be on the table.  However, that decision will necessarily be made by those who have far, far more inside information than I do.  I don't know all that they do about the state of injuries, the state of contract extension negotiations, the chemistry of the team and of the staff, etc.  Thus my vote in this straw poll is IDK.

The goal is to make the organization better.  Usually an organization (in business generally, or baseball specifically) improves when underperformers learn from mistakes.  This is true at every level, and arguably most importantly at the highest level.  Firing isn't a punishment - firing is when you think learning isn't happening.  Once in a very, very great while, a symbolic firing helps motivate the rest of the staff, but too often it has the opposite effect - "accountability" should usually be very private.

If the answers to ownership's probing questions involve a new five-year plan, or verbiage that amounts to it, in their shoes I might decide to offer that opportunity to a new management team rather than the one I already have given five years to.  The answers I do want to hear are along the lines of "we did this and this correctly and ran into bad luck, but on this and this other action we failed and here is our get-well plan for 2022 and here is our change in process to not have a recurrence."  Now might not be the right time for such self-reflection.

So I don't advocate directly to fire Falvey or Levine.  But I do think it should be on the table, and I am surprised to be thinking that, so soon in their tenure. 

[Greglw3]

I agree about the errors but he had great range in the hole and after his throwing adjustment his throwing improved. 

[gunnarthor]

Levine should go for sure. Not as sure about Falvey. I heard a lot of nice things about him but if he's the guy behind the 5 inning starter plan, I'd be happy to see him go. I hate watching this pitching style.

 

[old nurse]

On 6/16/2021 at 3:56 PM, Danchat said:

Y\ The pipeline has been mostly purged of Terry Ryan-drafted prospects, and it would be rash to reboot the system now. 

 

The system is pretty devoid of Ryan prospects because they are in the major leagues or traded for current talent.  But in the minors Balazovic and Thorpe are the two better pitching prospects are Ryan era.

[RonCoomersOPS]

Um. No. No, it is not time to fire either of them.

This year is a huge disappointment at the major league level, no question, but it is important to note that players like Larnach, Ober, Jeffers, Kirilloff, and Alcala have been acquired by Falvey and Levine and/or come up through the development system that Falvey and Levine implemented, and they all look awfully competent. That's more good young players this year than the previous FO produced during their last ten years.

They took Byron Buxton and turned him from a strikeout machine full of wasted potential and turned him into a guy who is outpacing Mike Freaking Trout this year.

They haven't hit on all of their free agents and trades, especially this year, but they did go get Nelson Cruz and ride him to almost 60 home runs and two playoff berths in his first two years. They did turn Eduardo Escobar into a solid pitching prospect during a dead-end year, and then develop said prospect into what sure looks like an ace in the making. They did turn a middling shortstop prospect into Jake Odorizzi and then get the best year of Odorizzi's career out of him, and then they got the middling shortstop back for nothing and have turned him into what looks like a pretty solid young player.

They've taken a minor league system that was completely bereft of talent and turned it totally on its head. They now have a minor league system with at least a rotation and a half worth of guys who might legitimately be #1s or strong #2 MLB starters sooner than later. There are a handful of quality middle infield prospects and more outfielders than we know what to do with.

No, Falvey and Levine aren't perfect. This year sucks noodles for the most part at the major league level. They're playing the long game, though, and the team is clearly much better off with them than without.

[BenWinMolMorMau]

It is no surprise that the Twins have struggled attracting fans this year.  The pirhana's always drew well despite marginal payrolls.  The squad played an exciting style of baseball emphasizing aggressive baserunning, and solid fundamental defense.  

Not so with the current iteration.  Twins baseball is boring, station to station baseball.  Opposing pitchers never worry about Twins runners.  They know the Twins won't steal.  Hitters are more concerned with launch angle instead of moving runners over.  Fans are left to watch guys striking out a ton, and no excitement on the basepaths.  

The twins won't let their starters pitch.  Pulling guys after 4 and 5 even if they are pitching well, only to turn it over to a marginal bullpen is boring!\

The Correa signing was unnecessary.  You already have Polanco and Arraez to man the middle infield.  100 mil wasted when everyone knew pitching was what the Twins needed.  

I am a lifelong twins fan but I can't take it anymore.  I have switched to the Guardians.  Cleveland plays an exciting brand of baseball.  Tito Francona is the best manager in the game.  Francona wants to win and manages his club to maximize the abilities of the players he has.  We used to do that.  

As long as falvey remains in charge the twins will continue down this path.  Lots of money spent now, but little to show for it.

[h2oface]

On 6/16/2021 at 1:56 PM, Danchat said:

You don’t give up on your front office after a single bad year. If 2022 goes the same way, then I would entertain the conversation seriously.

Falvine’s prospects they’ve been drafting are just starting to come up, and through the next 2-4 seasons they will be debuting and seeing how good they are at drafting and developing MLB talent. The pipeline has been mostly purged of Terry Ryan-drafted prospects, and it would be rash to reboot the system now. 

I do have problems with how poorly they handled this off-season and what the heck they have Rocco doing (IMO Baldelli is mostly a puppet executing Falvine’s vision), but for now the goodwill created from the 2019-20 seasons isn’t completely gone for me. But as I said, if this team is uncompetitive again in 2022, everyone’s jobs should be in question.

Soooooo, do you change your vote now?

[tony&rodney]

I voted "IDK" because IDK what the heck they are trying to do. The Manfred super ball may have ruined whatever initial ideas they had when they started their reign of error. Who knows? The Twins face a ton of questions this offseason. Those of you who watch other baseball games can attest to the gap in talent and (especially) quality between the better teams and the Twins play. The Twins most resemble our AL Central folks, KC, Detroit, and the Chicago White Sox. While I don't know if these guys should/deserve to be replaced, it is clear that there needs to be some authentic thinking and honest conversations among those who run the Twins. A replay of the strategies and method of play will see attendance fall to near 1 million or below and that will raise eyebrows more than anything else.

[Irishman]

9 hours ago, BenWinMolMorMau said:

It is no surprise that the Twins have struggled attracting fans this year.  The pirhana's always drew well despite marginal payrolls.  The squad played an exciting style of baseball emphasizing aggressive baserunning, and solid fundamental defense.  

Not so with the current iteration.  Twins baseball is boring, station to station baseball.  Opposing pitchers never worry about Twins runners.  They know the Twins won't steal.  Hitters are more concerned with launch angle instead of moving runners over.  Fans are left to watch guys striking out a ton, and no excitement on the basepaths.  

The twins won't let their starters pitch.  Pulling guys after 4 and 5 even if they are pitching well, only to turn it over to a marginal bullpen is boring!\

The Correa signing was unnecessary.  You already have Polanco and Arraez to man the middle infield.  100 mil wasted when everyone knew pitching was what the Twins needed.  

I am a lifelong twins fan but I can't take it anymore.  I have switched to the Guardians.  Cleveland plays an exciting brand of baseball.  Tito Francona is the best manager in the game.  Francona wants to win and manages his club to maximize the abilities of the players he has.  We used to do that.  

As long as falvey remains in charge the twins will continue down this path.  Lots of money spent now, but little to show for it.

Good post.  I agree.   Not so much fun to watch Twins games.   I do not plan to subscribe MLB.TV to watch Twins games in 2023.  Too many blown leads and saves.  Too many injuries.  Too many inconsistency!  

[Number3]

The fact that this thread was started over a year ago, and based upon the record and lineups they have literally pieced together in 2022 the answer is obvious. The home run argument is hilarious and proves that day to day consistency and fundamentals is what wins, not some magic formula. Twins have hit almost 50 more 4baggers than Cleveland. Check the standings.

[Doctor Gast]

I was one of the few that voted for firing them back then. Although I was against them trading away Rogers & Garver thus gutting our BP & catching. Slow as it may be they are making progress. They vastly improved our defense for example. I like our draft picks. Suggesting some sort of long relief corp but not following through was our downfall again. BP lost too many games that the offense & rotation had put us in a position to win. No wonder our team was dishearted.

They had a plan too bad this plan didn't work because it was based on temporary conditions and they were too slow to adjust. We need to improve our fundamentals, catching depth and if they implement & use an adequate long relief corp. Then we'll be competitive, Then this FO will be safe, otherwise because of their inability to quickly change will be their undoing.

[nicksaviking]

On 6/17/2021 at 10:11 AM, JW24 said:

The 2019 season might be the worst thing to happen to this front office; they opened the window of serious contention a year or two earlier than they anticipated, and now that the team they have created hasn't performed people are calling for them to be fired. That is insane to me.

 

I'd argue that the 2019 season was the worst thing to happen to this club because they'd built an organization to crush baseballs and then the league went and forced a new formula down our throats. 

[nicksaviking]

On 6/17/2021 at 11:55 PM, gunnarthor said:

Levine should go for sure. Not as sure about Falvey. I heard a lot of nice things about him but if he's the guy behind the 5 inning starter plan, I'd be happy to see him go. I hate watching this pitching style.

 

Yeah, I've been saying for a long time that these two shouldn't be a package deal; they're completely different people. It's quite possible that one is better at his job than the other.

I don't blame the fans for this comingling of the two though, the organization has never been transparent in disclosing  the job delineation.