Game Recap: Athletics 7, Twins 6

[Otto von Ballpark]

19 minutes ago, Mill1634 said:

As for Duffey, he did his job PERFECTLY in that situation.

Duffey did well, although this is part of the reason pitchers really want strikeouts instead of balls in play. Duffey faced 5 batters that inning and didn’t get a single K (although he struck out the side the following inning).

[Otto von Ballpark]

2 hours ago, David Youngs said:

Maeda now has a 5.26 ERA through his first eight starts of the year.

...

It’s clear that Maeda isn’t off to the same start that landed him second in Cy Young voting in 2020. Still, it’s likely that Maeda will get out of this rut at some point given his reputation for consistency. The righty leveraged a 4.03 ERA through eight starts in 2019, 4.75 in 2018, and 5.08 in 2017. None of these numbers are spectacular, but the point is, Maeda has turned out fine by the end of the year. He’ll be okay, it’s just taking a bit longer.

Overall run scoring is down this year. Using a relative measure like ERA-, I estimate that he's around 127 after today's start. Here's his ERA- after 8 starts in those previous seasons you mention:

2019: 96 ERA-
2018: 101 ERA-
2017: 122 ERA-

The only one that's really comparable is 2017, and Maeda finished that year with a career-worst 105 ERA- as a starter before getting moved to the pen.

And far from recovering, his 2018 and 2019 final SP ERA- (100 and 99, respectively) was pretty much the same as his first 8 starts (before he finished both of those seasons in the pen too).

Maeda's SP ERA- matched the NL league averages each year from 2017-2019 quite closely (league was 103, 100, and 99. vs Maeda's 105, 100, and 99).

[Fritzderkat]

Lots of bellyaching today, all of it justifiable.

[darwin22]

2 hours ago, h2oface said:

Lots of details to moan about. One that will get lost in it all.... Duffey - three inherited runners. Three inherited runners scored. It never ends. 

Donaldson - just wow. Simmons can't throw now (4 errors so far this year) and Donaldson can't catch an easy throw. That was a double play and out of the top half of the 9th. Instead, that's the loss and the ball game.

Finding "new" ways to lose is soooo  disheartening.  Was shocked that Rogers got Olson to hit a weak groundball back to him as Rogers has struggled mightily against good LH bats all season.  Rogers 'may have" rushed his throw to Donaldson a tad, but there's no way that ball should've clanked off his glove.  If it was Polanco, I understand as there's a history there, but not with JD.  The backdoor slider that K'ed Chapman was, imo, a pitch that the vast majority of solid defensive catchers would've blocked.  Not the case with Garver.  Its time to bring Jeffers back from St. Paul to play on a regular basis.  Jeffers is finding his stroke .273 avg (12-44) with 3 doubles and 3 HRs (walk off last night) 10 RBI and .545 slug pct.  Jeffers defense is far superior.  Time for the Rortvedt experience to end.

[USAFChief]

2 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

 

The real error on the rundown was a failure of a teammate to VERY loudly yell for Rortveldt to just hold the ball and run Andrus to 3B where another runner created an automatic out. The Twins did not communicate at all on that play. 

There wasn't even any need to communicate. Rortvedt is facing third base, the play is right in front of him. He can SEE the runner from 2nd almost to third by the time he throws. All he has to do is NOT throw. 

 

A little league catcher makes that play.

[Aerodeliria]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Does this manager spend ANY time at all, spring training or regular season, drilling the basics of how to play the game of baseball into his team?

 

 

A lot of people didn't like Tom Kelly's irascible style, but his teams always played fundamentally sound baseball. The level of play here is like AA baseball. I'm sorry to say that but it's not like this is a one-off thing. Mental and physical blunders continue to happen in every game--even those we rarely pull out. (I am recalling the 6-5 win over the Rangers, which was the one game I could watch from start to finish. Polanco was slow covering 2nd base twice and also dropped a pop-up. Cave took a very odd route on a fly ball and it turned into a double, etc., etc.)

[tony&rodney]

43 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

There wasn't even any need to communicate. Rortvedt is facing third base, the play is right in front of him. He can SEE the runner from 2nd almost to third by the time he throws. All he has to do is NOT throw. 

 

A little league catcher makes that play.

Look, the rookie should have run it back to 3B. I was too protective to deflect/ask for team communication, although that is not a bad thing. Rortvedt made a mistake, but so did the umpire and ultimately the out call should have been made when Donaldson casually tagged Andrus.

The best college teams are at a rookie level and  the best MLB players are not above making some bad mistakes. But, nobody really has any authority to make the little league comparison unless they have played a good amount of time at the highest level. In that situation, Andrus would find it easy to fool any player below the MLB level, but he might not get the same call from every umpire.

I hope Garver hits 35 homeruns, but he should not be catching. The pitchers throw differently to the rookie and Jeffers. So, the Twins need Rortvedt and he will remember that play. There is another game tomorrow.

[Mill1634]

2 hours ago, h2oface said:

Happy for you that you think a pitcher does his job perfectly when he is called in FOR RELIEF with the bases loaded and no outs.... AND ALL THE RUNNERS INHERITED SCORE. ALL OF THEM. I know what happened and how (one can watch the game and not be part of the game thread, eh?). Miss bats and things are different. That would be perfect in my book. Relief is not letting all the runners score. I know Duffey had help. He is still on the mound called in for relief, not to open the faucet.

The ump should never have called interference. It did get to that point, and the runner should have been called out. Period. Umpire made a horrible call. Well documented. Easy to see on replay. Hate the catcher if you like, if that makes you happy. I have already adressed that he had other options, and should have done them. But the umpire made the call that was horrible, and the wrong call. And I won't call your behavior stupid, even if you call mine stupid.

The twins have had plenty of poor relief appearances this year, including some out of Duffey. Today was NOT one of those out of Tyler. He came in with the bases loaded and 0 outs. The hardest thing possible for a reliever. He gave up a ground ball that didn’t get to the dirt, a ground ball hit at the 3rd basemen that was then botched by the catcher, who you somehow are still being apologetic over, Andrus did the exact thing every base runner should do and got the call because that is the call in that situation. He flopped, sure, but even if he doesn’t and just runs into him, it’s still the cal. The flop had nothing to do with the enforcement of the rule, and got a lazy fly ball that would’ve been the third out of the inning. Outside of striking out the side, Duffey pitcher that inning to perfection. Being upset at the reliever seems like you’re just doing so because they’ve been bad basically all year, which is fine, but the 5th inning had less than <5% of blame on Tyler Duffey. 

[Mill1634]

A bit of confusion by a few posters..Andrus most definitely flopped, yes. I don’t think anyone, even him, will argue that. However, it doesn’t matter if the runner falls over or not. Rortvedt doesn’t have the ball anymore, and is still in the basepaths. If any contact is made within the basepaths, obstruction or interference will be called on the defensive player. If he doesn’t fall over, it’s likely delayed obstruction and the play continues to play out, and if he’s tagged, he’s later granted home and a run anyhow. The flop didn’t look good, and certainly caused some confusion, but it doesn’t matter at all in the call. If he doesn’t stick his arm out, he’s still bumping shoulders with Rortvedt, which therefore leads to obstruction.  This coming from a (high school) umpire. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

4 hours ago, Tom Froemming said:

 

It looked like three infielders running to second to receive the throw from Rogers. 

Seems inefficient?

[h2oface]

22 minutes ago, Mill1634 said:

The twins have had plenty of poor relief appearances this year, including some out of Duffey. Today was NOT one of those out of Tyler. He came in with the bases loaded and 0 outs. The hardest thing possible for a reliever. He gave up a ground ball that didn’t get to the dirt, a ground ball hit at the 3rd basemen that was then botched by the catcher, who you somehow are still being apologetic over, Andrus did the exact thing every base runner should do and got the call because that is the call in that situation. He flopped, sure, but even if he doesn’t and just runs into him, it’s still the cal. The flop had nothing to do with the enforcement of the rule, and got a lazy fly ball that would’ve been the third out of the inning. Outside of striking out the side, Duffey pitcher that inning to perfection. Being upset at the reliever seems like you’re just doing so because they’ve been bad basically all year, which is fine, but the 5th inning had less than <5% of blame on Tyler Duffey. 

Andrus put his elbow out and ran into our catcher, not the other way around. Easy to see. They don't touch unless he does. You are imagining things, I believe.

[Mill1634]

9 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Andrus put his elbow out and ran into our catcher, not the other way around. Easy to see. They don't touch unless he does. You are imagining things, I believe.

It does not matter who “initiates” the contact if the contact comes within the basepaths, unless you’re diving at a guy or something like that, which he didn’t. It’s on the fielder to get out of the basepaths, hence the name. Rortvedt didn’t do that. A veteran played a rookie like a fiddle. If you’re caught in a rundown, go find contact. High school coaches teach that, not because it’s cheap, because it works if the opponent allows it to. Like I said above, even if he doesn’t reach out, there shoulders are still making contact. Still interference however you want to spin it. 
 

take it from a guy a lot smarter than me if you must. 
 

 

[RickOShea]

3 hours ago, cHawk said:

 

They don’t have the least talent in baseball (quite far from it) but they DO NOT play as a team.

Halloween is on October 31st!

[h2oface]

58 minutes ago, Mill1634 said:

 

take it from a guy a lot smarter than me if you must. 
 

 

Exactly. I plainly see Andrus reaching out with his elbow, moving a bit out of baseline. Thank you. Judgement call. Umpire made it. He was wrong. Andrus is laughing at ump as a sucker. I get all you are saying. I know the rule. They would not have touched anyway. I have eyes and can still see.

[h2oface]

10 hours ago, Tom Froemming said:

 

Donaldson steps into the path of the runner that would have been out at second like he is trying to take a charge on the Basketball court. Stands/moves  right in the basepath, in the runners way, trying to impede him or slow him down. I guess that ump didn't think that was interference or obstruction, because NO CALL. Intentional and malicious, and not the "runner stick my arm out so I touch the defender that isn't in the basepath anyway".

[wsnydes]

8 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

It looked like three infielders running to second to receive the throw from Rogers. 

Seems inefficient?

And yet, the play still wasn't made!  Rather incredible, really.  Even the guys backing the play up failed.

[theBOMisthebomb]

9 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

It looked like three infielders running to second to receive the throw from Rogers. 

Seems inefficient?

I also noticed the two other players backing up the play weren't really in good position to back up the play since they were scrambling to get over there. There are many subtleties to the shift. Not to mention, we have a third baseman turning the double play instead of the shortstop brought in this season for defense. 

[wsnydes]

18 minutes ago, theBOMisthebomb said:

I also noticed the two other players backing up the play weren't really in good position to back up the play since they were scrambling to get over there. There are many subtleties to the shift. Not to mention, we have a third baseman turning the double play instead of the shortstop brought in this season for defense. 

I imagine that plays into the error by Donaldson.  That turn isn't something he's all that familiar with, but that's still a play, that even he would appear to agree with, that should have been made.  He had the time.

Though, judging by how he set himself up for that, he hasn't practiced that enough.

[terrydactyls]

On the bright side, yesterday the Wild beat Las Vegas in OT.  That's one more playoff win than the Twins have in the last 20 years.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Thanks for the replies @wsnydes @theBOMisthebomb

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

If the only player on the left side of the diamond covers second on short infield grounders fielded by the catcher or pitcher, who is responsible for third base: the pitcher, or catcher? The left fielder?

[AceWrigley]

16 hours ago, h2oface said:

Donaldson - just wow. Simmons can't throw now (4 errors so far this year) and Donaldson can't catch an easy throw. That was a double play and out of the top half of the 9th. Instead, that's the loss and the ball game.

Reminds me of a bad Twins team from years ago when after another botched play, the announcer said, "And this team has all the earmarks of a loser." And that team had a lot of rookies with promise and we all knew they wouldn't be good yet. This team we expect to be competitive and win, making watching this crap that much harder to watch.

[TwinsChupacabra]

"It looked like three infielders running to second to receive the throw from Rogers. 

Seems inefficient?"

 

How many Twins does it take to change a light bulb?

[mikelink45]

One game, one play, one rookie - not worth all the angst - this team is such a mess that that only diverts attention from the real problems - Front office errors, coaching and manager errors, veteran errors.  Where are our winning ways?  Our team work is missing.  These are just a bunch of miscellaneous ball players occupying positions, but not taking responsibility for leadership, doing the small things, getting hits and not wild swings, getting ground balls and letting the strikeouts come naturally.  

I am frustrating that Bally Sports blacks out so many games that my MLB package is worthless, but maybe they are doing me a favor.