Game Recap: White Sox 4, Twins 2

[h2oface]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Robles outperformed the odds there......the problem was the starter was finally left in like you all have been BLASTING the manager for not doing.......I'll sit here and wait for everyone to talk about how wrong they were about that.....

Premature to think that, I think. Pineda walked 2. Big deal. Especially since ball 4 to Abreu was actully strike 3, and the umpire blew the call of a great pitch! So bring Robles in with runners on 2nd and third with one out, and you know he will let the runners in. I am amazed he didn't let both in. All it took was one pitch from Robles. Just like has been happening. ONE PITCH! Obviously, even if Pineda had walked the bases loaded, Robles was brought in at least one batter too soon.  Pineda didn't get the chance to end the inning, and no run scored in the 6th on his watch. All this pen does is let inherited runners in. I say let the starter decide the fate. The pen is trash.

[AceWrigley]

Maybe its time for the names in a hat lineup drawing.  

[AceWrigley]

If I'm the manager I'd probably take a baseball bat to the post game food table. If we're going to play like this, nobody eats. Plus, a mad guy smacking food all over the place with a baseball bat is pretty funny.

[insagt1]

2 hours ago, jun said:

The thing is no one has any faith in this bullpen. This is the only option. Pineda and Berrios are way better than anyone there.

What is happening however is that our guys can't get the 3rd strike or 3rd out before allowing a run. Their guys pretty much stop us every time...no matter how many outs or men on base. It defies odds when an opposing pitcher can stop us from scoring a run with no outs and a runner on 2nd 6 out of 7 times. I don't think thats normal. And our run production in innings 7-10 is abysmal. meanwhile our pitchers are giving up runs every game when it matters most. Can't crawl into a guys head...but it sure 'looks' from body language that the Twins collectively have zero confidence right now.

After Keplers surprise HR in the 8th, we followed it with two singles. Somehow once again, nothing resulted.

[cHawk]

18 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Premature to think that, I think. Pineda walked 2. Big deal. Especially since ball 4 to Abreu was actully strike 3, and the umpire blew the call of a great pitch! So bring Robles in with runners on 2nd and third with one out, and you know he will let the runners in. I am amazed he didn't let both in. All it took was one pitch from Robles. Just like has been happening. ONE PITCH! Obviously, even if Pineda had walked the bases loaded, Robles was brought in at least one batter too soon.  Pineda didn't get the chance to end the inning, and no run scored in the 6th on his watch. All this pen does is let inherited runners in. I say let the starter decide the fate. The pen is trash.

I'll go back to run expectancy stuff, because it does matter. The situation that Robles was in had a 1.352 run expectancy. The pitch to Vaughn wasn't even that bad. A good offensive team that is having good ABs at the plate will score at least once every time, against any reliever. The Sox are a good offensive team. We are not, and for this reason exactly.

For a run to not score, the pitching has to be ABSOLUTELY perfect (which you aren't going to get night after night after night) or the offense has to be really, really bad in that scenario. The Twins have been the latter almost every time when they bat.

[D.C Twins]

We are now in pole position for the #1 draft pick!  We GOT this!

let's Go!

[h2oface]

Run expectancy again, eh? How is that working for the Twins in the tenth? The almighty expectancy is not the end all. Especially in baseball.

[bighat]

58 minutes ago, twinbythebay said:

I'm curious about what specifically you'd like the media to do or say, and what you think would change because of it. I think the team and the organization is well aware of how badly this season is going and how frustrated all of the fans are. What answers would satisfy you? I don't think anyone really has any answers at this point.

I dunno - how about they talk to Pohlad and ask if Rocco's on the hot seat? Start at least asking that question. If the Yankees, Dodgers, White Sox, or any other team that was predicted to be a playoff finalist were 12-23, we wouldn't just be hearing whispers, we'd be reading detailed articles about firing the manager daily.

I think readers and fans are ready for some drastic moves. Someone should start the conversation.

[cHawk]

10 minutes ago, h2oface said:

Run expectancy again, eh? How is that working for the Twins in the tenth? The almighty expectancy is not the end all. Especially in baseball.

Well that's the case with Average Joe's team in all aspects of play. If a team is playing sound fundamental baseball, they should score at least one with a runner on second in any given situation. The Twins are not playing sound fundamental baseball, their opponents are. In a situation where 1 run is expected, if the offense scores 0 and the opponent scores 1, the pitching performed as expected. The offense did not perform as expected, much worse infact.

[Old Twins Cap]

I knew, and everyone should know, if the game is close, the Twins are going to lose.

It's sad, but, at this point, going in to the series, it was obvious the Twins were going to get swept.

Over and over again, the Twins are going to lose.  It's who they are.

And, like for so many years in the past, there is no accountability.

Rocco can explain, in perfectly reasonable ways, why they lose.  But they lose.

Again.

And again.

Worst team in baseball, and there's always a reasonable explanation.

That is the problem.

Losing make sense to the Minnesota Twins, in the playoffs, in extra innings, in close games, because that's the culture they have created.

Even with the new CDC guidance on masks, the Twins should wear masks, on the bench, on the field, on the way to the ballpark, when they are naked in front of the mirror, for the rest of the year, and for the rest of the decade, because they are pretending to be a baseball team.

 

[darwin22]

3 hours ago, Musk21 said:

To think we started the season 5-2...

7-21 since then.

Would've been a 6-1 start to season if Colome hadn't blown a 3-run lead in the 9th in our opening game.  Not that anyone really cares, I know, at this point.

[darwin22]

1 hour ago, BD57 said:

Bottom line, 2 runs isn't enough.

The pitching has been bad, the relievers have been bad, the lineup has been bad, Rocco's managed himself into some horrible situations (that infield alignment in Oakland with a lead in extra innings would be "Exhibit A" at the trial) . . . . 

This team is doing next to nothing right beyond showing up for the games on time.

Exactly.  21st game in which this putrid offense has scored 3 runs or less.  Our record sits at 3-18 in those 21 games. Saw this in game thread the other day---can't remember after what loss, but it shouldn't be forgotten as we're now at 35th game of season---21.6% of games.  Twins have not won 1 game this season in which they trailed by MORE THAN 1 RUN.  No grit. No fight.  Very sad.

[lukeduke1980]

The problem seems to be hitting with runners in scoring position so maybe everyone should stop when they get to first.

[VivaBomboRivera!]

At third base stands a runner

A hard slider by his trade

And he carries the reminders

Of every glove that tagged him out

Or rundown, 'til he cried out

In his anger and his shame:

"I am stranded; I'm not scoring!" , so the runner still remains...

Lai la lai! Lai la lai lai, lai la lai

Lai la lai! Lai la lai lai lai la lai lai lala lai!

 

Here's hoping this is bottom.

[twinbythebay]

3 hours ago, bighat said:

I dunno - how about they talk to Pohlad and ask if Rocco's on the hot seat? Start at least asking that question. If the Yankees, Dodgers, White Sox, or any other team that was predicted to be a playoff finalist were 12-23, we wouldn't just be hearing whispers, we'd be reading detailed articles about firing the manager daily.

I think readers and fans are ready for some drastic moves. Someone should start the conversation.

I think we both know how the Pohlads (or anyone else in the Twins org) would answer a question like that. They're not going to throw the manager under the bus in the media, and they're certainly not going to fire the manager because of a bad six week stretch. Any dissatisfaction is going to be handled internally, and I think that would be the case with any MLB club. They've played 35 games, and there are 127 games remaining... I know we're all just frustrated and venting here, but we've got a long way to go and Rocco ain't going anywhere this season.

[rv78]

On pace to go 55-107. So Rocco doesn't get fired now. If they finish at that record or anywhere close to it, he should be fired then. Motivation is on his shoulders and he provides none. Hopefully, if a miraculous turn around doesn't happen the fire sale starts in July for the players that are pretending to be players.

[denarded]

13 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Inconceivable. 

I do not not think that word means what you think it means (especially when applied to 2021 Twins)

[insagt1]

Twins start this season is not that they are in a 'slump'. The losses are all the same. Poor pitching, absolutely no hitting with RISP; no ability whatsoever to overcome deficits; and far too many k's. This has been consistent all season long. Most their wins have been blowouts, which will happen from time to time.

Something has to be changed. The old saw is you can't fire the players so you fire the manager/coach. That may work but OTOH, collectively this team just doesn't 'work' right now. Its broken. And I don't think any of us saw this coming...to the extent it is happening. Too much talent to be this bad. But when the pieces don't fit together, talent can't overcome the problems.

You can throw all the statistics out there on what 'should happen', but baseball still is all about putting runners on and driving them in. And then preventing the other guy from doing the same. Twins can't do either apparently....ergo 12-23 and falling.

[mikelink45]

12 hours ago, rv78 said:

For what it's worth Big Mike threw 96 pitches, not 80-85. Even so, he's BIG and he's been around for a while. There's no reason why he couldn't throw 110 pitches or more. Unless he told Rocco he was tiring, the option to leave him out there or go to the bullpen which has imploded almost every game would give me reason to let him throw until his arm falls off. We all know that happens now-a-days once a pitcher reaches the magical number of 100 pitches or more. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Right now one would have to question Rocco's sanity with his every move to quick hook a starter and go to the bullpen. With the current state of the bullpen I'd be letting the pitchers go 8 or 9 innings everytime out if they aren't imploding like the bullpen. 

From the team's future view - he will be a free agent - use him, get your dollars worth.  Pitchers some how survived the previous decades throwing 9 innings and sometimes more. 

[USAFChief]

8 hours ago, VivaBomboRivera! said:

At third base stands a runner

A hard slider by his trade

And he carries the reminders

Of every glove that tagged him out

Or rundown, 'til he cried out

In his anger and his shame:

"I am stranded; I'm not scoring!" , so the runner still remains...

Lai la lai! Lai la lai lai, lai la lai

Lai la lai! Lai la lai lai lai la lai lai lala lai!

 

Here's hoping this is bottom.

When I left home plate, an anomaly!

I was on first base to score

After dumping to right a flare, 

On the quiet of the basepaths, runnin' scared

Running slow, eeking out some base advancement where so few Twins ever flow

Looking for home plate but alas, it's no go

 

Lai la lie...

 

[wavedog]

12 hours ago, mnfireman said:

35 games, 32 different batting orders. I understand some of this is necessary because of injuries, but I don't see other teams shuffling line-ups as much as the Twins do. A little consistency might let guys get more comfortable at the plate and understand roles better. That, and other than Cruz, Donaldson & Sano (and maybe Buxton when he returns), more guys need to start moving runners over instead of weak pop-ups to the SS.  

I have noticed that as well this year - that other teams seem to have more stable lineups.   It seems the Twins are attempting some analytic lineup model.  Even in past playoff games they may have trotted out a lineup that was different that what was used in the regular season.   I don't know if there might not be greater value in lineup consistency in terms of offensive rhythm and production - getting big inning rallies.  As you mentioned there have been injuries and positive covid tests this year which lead to more changes but guys seem to be moved up and down in the order a good bit more than other teams.    

[wavedog]

One thought I had regarding the 6th inning decision - there were runners on 2nd and 3rd and one out.   Vaughn was up and Collins was on deck.   I was thinking if we should have walked Vaughn to pitch to Collins who is not as good a hitter.  Would also set up the force at any base or double-play but then a walk forces in a run and Pineda just walked 2 people and Robles is know to give up a walk.   Collins might have been pinch-hit for as well but Collins seemed to be struggling so I thought that could have been another choice. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

So I watched all of yesterday's game and my big takeaway was "I regret doing this".

[Brock Beauchamp]

I feel like this inning perfectly represents the 2021 Twins. They get a break, hit a few balls nicely, load the bases, then make the third out on a .640 xBA ball that's nearly a grand slam.

Smell those RBI, boys.

					Statcast Metrics
	Batter	PA	In.	Result	EV (MPH)	LA (Deg.)	Dist (ft.)	Pitch Vel (MPH)	xBA
	Kyle Garlick	31	4	Flyout	100.0	27	390	95.4	.640
	Willians Astudillo	30	4	Strikeout				95.2
	Max Kepler	29	4	Field Error	97.0	-7	15	91.6	.240
	Mitch Garver	28	4	Walk				94.2
	Trevor Larnach	27	4	Double	105.3	17	268	89.2	.570
	Nelson Cruz	26	4	Strikeout				89.1
	Jorge Polanco	25	4	Pop Out	70.6	81	43	94.6

[VivaBomboRivera!]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

When I left home plate, an anomaly!

I was on first base to score...

Asking only the league minimum

I've come looking for a job

But I only get optioned

And a come-on from the groupies in the bus leagues...

I do declare! There were times I swung so badly

That I spent the season there

La la lalalalaa...

[chaderic20]

18 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

How do you spell RELIEF?  Not the Bullpen. 32 inherited runners have scored - subtract that from the SP and add it to the RP - how are the ERAs?  

Robles you do not deserve a clean 0 runs.  Taylor Rogers you killed us with the run you gave up.  

 

I've always thought inherited runners that score should be split between the SP and RP based on which base they were on when the RP came into the game. Runner on third when the RP comes in and he later scores, SP gets .75 earned runs and RP gets .25. Runner on second scores, .5/.5. Runner on first scores, .25/.75.

[chaderic20]

Also, can we get the bullpen usage back as an embedded image in the article? Some of us can't open google docs... 

[Brock Beauchamp]

@chaderic20
	SUN	MON	TUE	WED	THU	TOT
Anderson	0	0	0	54	0	54			Did not pitch
Thielbar	0	0	41	0	0	41			1-20 Pitches
Law	0	0	19	13	0	32			21+ Pitches
Alcala	0	0	12	0	16	28
Rogers	0	0	0	0	20	20
Duffey	0	0	0	16	0	16
Colomé	0	0	0	15	0	15
Robles	0	0	0	0	12	12