Article: Are Gibson, Hicks Destined For Rochester?

[FrodaddyG]

Wouldn't it be better to see the makeup of the 2014 roster together in 2013?

If we're going on the assumption they're all worthwhile pieces, wouldn't it be better to have the bulk of that group together in 2019-2020 for an extra year rather than an extra month of taking lumps this year?

[Steve Lein]

For the 10,000th time, it has nothing to do with being too "early" for the player or their readiness, and everything to do with their monetary compensation down the road. Good lord.

 

I know you have a personal hatred of me, but salary in 5 or 6 years just isn't going to matter to the extent the Twins should be worrying about it more than putting their best team out there day 1. Depending on if the player is "good" or "not good," that will get taken care of on the Twins own terms. As in, they'll sign them to an extension they are comfortable with before those final years ever come up (because he's "good"), or they'll just ride it out and cut their losses because they're not spending an inordinate amount of money on the guy anyway (because he's "not good").

 

Drew Butera is getting more money this year because he's a Super Two, but are we complaining he's overpaid? (no, because he falls into the "not good" player category and we don't really care)

 

Furthermore, are we complaining we didn't end up keeping Liriano? Casilla? ("not good" players)

 

Would we have been pissed if they lost Mauer? Morneau? Cuddyer? Baker? or Span because of this?! ("good" players)

 

Connect the dots. It's not that complicated. Certainly not to the extent you believe when attempting to belittle my opinions on the subject, and is exactly what Phil Mackey is getting at in that chat quoted earlier.

[Han Joelo]

First off, can a site admin maybe fix this thread--it appears in three different places with three different sets of comments. This one is the least easy to find but has the most comments by far.

 

Second, I'm firmly in the camp that you bring the best guys north--sends a message to the players in the org. that if you have our back we'll have yours when the time is right. I mean, do you really want to have a bunch of lesser players on "scholarship?"

 

Third, IMO, the Angels have screwed up royally with Trout so far. They spent enormous amounts of money to contend last year and then repressed their best player to save money? And then the law of unintended consequences took over--in order to make good they traded a bunch of prospects for Greinke and then knee-jerked and signed Hamilton this off-season. Think they would have signed him if they'd had a good or great playoff run? I'm not so sure. And now of course the league minimum re-up. That's probably not as big a deal but bears watching. At any rate, whether it is six years or five years from now, the Angels will be trying to sign Trout for record setting numbers, right as he enters his prime, whilst simultaneously paying gobs of money to Pujols to DH.

 

Finally, as others have stated, Hicks will have Buxton breathing down his neck soon enough. Get his career started already.

 

As for Gibson, if he's ready, give him a spot. Skip a start here and there to extend him as far into the season as possible. Better to be around Andy and Cuellar and Mauer than in Rochester as the ace.

[Shane Wahl]

If we're going on the assumption they're all worthwhile pieces, wouldn't it be better to have the bulk of that group together in 2019-2020 for an extra year rather than an extra month of taking lumps this year?

 

Yes and hopefully there are two WS championships by then!

 

I am really not sure why there is *such* dispute about the benefits of not playing top prospects out of the gate this year, instead letting them develop (in Hicks' case--there CERTAINLY are a few things he can work on at the plate in AAA, and in Gibson's case--his innings limit) for a month or so. If the Twins had won 80 games last year like I predicted (!!!!), then I would be singing a different tune, I think (esp. with regard to Hicks).

 

That said, Cole DeVries and Brandon Boggs/Wilkin Ramirez are decent replacements for a MONTH.

[Shane Wahl]

And the "start-skipping" crowd . . . this is someone coming off a big injury, so I don't know if messing with routine is such a great idea vs. a 50 total innings limit over several starts in Rochester.

[Han Joelo]

If we're going on the assumption they're all worthwhile pieces, wouldn't it be better to have the bulk of that group together in 2019-2020 for an extra year rather than an extra month of taking lumps this year?

 

Since we're talking about 2020, here are my dreams: House paid off. Comfortable salary at a job I love. Two boys half-way to their Mike Trout -like Opening Day debuts at Target Field. Justin Morneau just re-signed to DH for the Twins Thome style. Mauer holding down the fort at second base. Aaron Hicks traded to make room for Buxton, for a bevy a prospects that will form the core of the 2030 team that my boys will both be a part of. Ahh, 2030! Can't wait till two decades from now!

[ashbury]

I don't like the chances this year.

 

Have you found someone who does?

[cmb0252]

I couldn't have said it better Wahl.

 

When did playing well the first two weeks of spring training mean anything? Heck, when did playing well all of spring training ever mean anything? We are all excited to see our young guys but it's spring training!

 

Hicks hasn't played higher than AA balls, Gibson is on a pitch count, and the Twins are most likely going to suck. IMO starting them in the minors doesn't only make sense for the future but for the present. It's spring training!

[snepp]

Have you found someone who does?

 

Dave St. Peter?

[snepp]

I know you have a personal hatred of me,

 

Certainly not to the extent you believe when attempting to belittle my opinions on the subject,

 

 

Settle down, you're not being persecuted here.

[Han Joelo]

The amount of team control is what determines the amount of monetary compensation and when they'll be forced to pay it. Hand in hand, same thing.

 

So, let's say B.J. Upton has a truly stupendous breakout year. Are you saying the Rays (the paragon of well run organizations for so many) would have been smarter to stash him in the minor leagues for a couple of more years, so as to have preserved his cost controlled prime? I have a fuzzy memory of him mashing in the playoffs as an unprimed 23 year old...

 

Please rebut with an argument or examples that go beyond "You are an idiot if you don't see things my way." Here's a couple of lobs which might work out in your favor if you have the time to research. Cano and Ellsbury. Pending free agents. Are the Yanks/Sox better or worse off (or neither) based on how they handled the pre-arb years? I'm truly curious. Could the Yankees put off the looming mega-payday by one more year had they done things differently?

[twinsnorth49]

I feel like I've been here before....http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSk5A1Ps5pKgleZwOFIVfQ5AA7sT05HP4Tn62GfmkzDypthGRPvw

[Top Gun]

You know that Hicks & Gibson could be a reason for more loses than wins in April too.

[FrodaddyG]

Settle down, you're not being persecuted here.

We're going to have to start piling up the Messiahs here shortly, we're getting so overstocked with them.

[Twins Twerp]

I have said this on a few different threads but ill say it again...Mike Trout had one of the best seasons in past 30 years [or so my geek friends tell me (WAR)] and did not break camp with the angels because of service time. It is not just a money thing. It is about one month in the minors versuses one less year of service when a guy is 27-28 years old. Wil myers will start in AAA, Bryce Harper started the year in AAA.

 

The other argument is: are these guys even ready? Hicks has no at bats over AA so sending him to AAA and getting at bats there is what most teams would do.

 

As far as Gibbie goes, he could get roughly 5 starts before being called up. I dont see any harm in 5 milb starts

[Badsmerf]

Han Joelo, BJ Upton OPS'd .915 at 19 years old between AA and AAA. Hicks, OPS'd .735 in low A at 19. Different players, different developments. Also, BJ Upton is a great example of a prospect with an extremely high ceiling that has not lived up to it. He is still a pretty good player, but his career OPS in the minors is .844 and majors is .758. Everyone beating down the door for Hicks needs some perspective on this.

 

He has a chance to be a good player. Everyone that is sold on him and want him in CF for years to come should want another year he doesn't get paid 15 million dollars too then. I don't really expect him to hit very well so my expectations for him are much lower. Still, a good option for CF in the long run since he will play elite defense. These arguments to see him come north are emotional arguments. They make no sense. Baseball is a business, and if I was running the team I'd make sure to be clear to JR that Hicks will not see the MLB until May at the earliest. "Saving a couple million" is a pretty big deal. People with that kind of money make smart decisions with money not emotional ones.

[Twins Twerp]

So, let's say B.J. Upton has a truly stupendous breakout year. Are you saying the Rays (the paragon of well run organizations for so many) would have been smarter to stash him in the minor leagues for a couple of more years, so as to have preserved his cost controlled prime? I have a fuzzy memory of him mashing in the playoffs as an unprimed 23 year old...

 

Please rebut with an argument or examples that go beyond "You are an idiot if you don't see things my way." Here's a couple of lobs which might work out in your favor if you have the time to research. Cano and Ellsbury. Pending free agents. Are the Yanks/Sox better or worse off (or neither) based on how they handled the pre-arb years? I'm truly curious. Could the Yankees put off the looming mega-payday by one more year had they done things differently?

 

Cano and elsbury were brought up in May and June respectively. Soooo...

[shs_59]

One thing for sure though, if Gibson is 3/4 Ths as good as Kris Medlen we will make the playoffs in 2014.

 

Seriously dude is Maddox 2.0. Nearly unhittable.

[darin617]

You can view the page at Twins Daily - Should Twins Bring Gibson and Hicks North?

 

They should be headed to Rochester for a while to keep the ARB clock from starting. Why would you waste service time when the Twins made it clear with their off season moves that this year will be another repeat of last year. Let the poor Pohlad boys save some more money...

[darin617]

I'm torn. I want them in Minneapolis, but as far as we know we won't contend this year. If that's the case, what is the point in starting their clocks early? The later the better. Bring them both up in June unless we truly believe we can contend with this team, which is what I think we all want to believe.

 

Not to be negative, but if the Twins are contending with this team the end of the world must be near.

[darin617]

Have you found someone who does?

 

Gardy & Terry Ryan would be the first that come to mind.

[glunn]

Not to be negative, but if the Twins are contending with this team the end of the world must be near.

 

I shudder to think what you would post if you wanted to be negative.

[darin617]

Cano and elsbury were brought up in May and June respectively. Soooo...

 

So are you telling me that Boston & NYY know how to use the system but people think the Twins don't need to?

[darin617]

One thing for sure though, if Gibson is 3/4 Ths as good as Kris Medlen we will make the playoffs in 2014.

 

Seriously dude is Maddox 2.0. Nearly unhittable.

 

Maddux 2.0? Really, come on man. totally different pitcher and let him do it for more than one season and the you can still never compare the 2.

[Badsmerf]

Glunn, you messed up his posts. He would have had 5 in a row. Reminds me of statfreak. Speaking of statfreak.... Brock, have you seen his IP address pop up here yet? I would love to have him back!

[jimbo92107]

If the Twins send Hicks to AAA, then they should give Joe Benson a real shot at CF, and have Mastrioanni be the fourth outfielder. Only problem then is, who will be the lead-off? Maybe that's why they're trying out Benson in the first slot.

[Kwak]

"Is he ready [for the majors]"? We won't know for at least a year or two--as a major league player. "Control this guy"! If the Twins are going to continue to think like a small market team--they will be trading these guys off by the end of their 5th year anyway. Ryan's departure had a lot to do with retaining Hunter and Santana for '07, when trading them after the '06 season made far more financial sense--and likely would have fetched better returns. I think he (and the executive committee) learned their lesson. There will only be one "Joe Mauer" on the Twins at a time.

[snepp]

Glunn, you messed up his posts. He would have had 5 in a row. Reminds me of statfreak. Speaking of statfreak.... Brock, have you seen his IP address pop up here yet? I would love to have him back!

 

All I want is one good "Season Over!" rant and I'll be happy.

[TheLeviathan]

All I want is one good "Season Over!" rant and I'll be happy.

 

He got under the skin of collection of snarky, thick-skinned jerks. I can't even fathom how the lot around here would react to him.

[DaveW]

He got under the skin of collection of snarky, thick-skinned jerks. I can't even fathom how the lot around here would react to him.

 

"If the Twins come back from 3 games down with 4 to play I will leave this site forever"