Alex Kirilloff Optioned to Alternate Training Site

[Channing1964]

You are correct that they could have kept Rosario if they wanted to, but they didn't want to.  I believe the FO tried to trade him but had no takers. He passed through Waivers unclaimed so pretty much the whole league agreed with the Twins that his price per production wasn't worth it.  That is just the reality of how all FO's see Rosario. Does that mean he is a bad player or won't have a good year or years, no, but it is hard to fault our FO when the rest of league let him pass by.  Yeah eventually the Indians signed him but I am not aware of anyone reporting lot's of teams had interest. If he were this great player shouldn't someone have claimed him or more teams try and sign him?

 

If you could hand out an award for passion, fire and not being afraid of big moments Rosario would win hands down.  He is a good left fielder but not a top 10 left fielder.  Given what we know and how other teams responded it is hard to fault the FO for letting him go.

its hard for me to rate kiroff, Rooker, Cave, Arraez, Garlick, Larnach Celestino, or anyone else you can name as a better outfielder, hitter, or Twin ahead of Eddie Rosario. He was the Heart of the team. Time will tell, but we are gonna miss him.A Lot.

[Dman]

 

its hard for me to rate kiroff, Rooker, Cave, Arraez, Garlick, Larnach Celestino, or anyone else you can name as a better outfielder, hitter, or Twin ahead of Eddie Rosario. He was the Heart of the team. Time will tell, but we are gonna miss him.A Lot.

I can agree none of them have Eddie's personality and it is possible none of them reach his level of production this year. It was a calculated risk taken.

[Major League Ready]

 

You are correct that they could have kept Rosario if they wanted to, but they didn't want to.  I believe the FO tried to trade him but had no takers. He passed through Waivers unclaimed so pretty much the whole league agreed with the Twins that his price per production wasn't worth it.  That is just the reality of how all FO's see Rosario. Does that mean he is a bad player or won't have a good year or years, no, but it is hard to fault our FO when the rest of league let him pass by.  Yeah eventually the Indians signed him but I am not aware of anyone reporting lot's of teams had interest. If he were this great player shouldn't someone have claimed him or more teams try and sign him?

 

If you could hand out an award for passion, fire and not being afraid of big moments Rosario would win hands down.  He is a good left fielder but not a top 10 left fielder.  Given what we know and how other teams responded it is hard to fault the FO for letting him go.

 

This FACT should be the end of any debate. Anyone who would argue the decision to let Rosario go presumes to have a superior understanding of Rosarios value in comparison to every organization in the league. It's not a bad thing that fanaticism elicits some irrational moments but to harp on endlessly in the face of the highlighted reality is absurd.

[Trov]

 

If he keeps hitting .129 in Spring Training he will be a career lond St.Paul Saint. First and foremost I am a Twins fan. I hate it that the Twins, and every other tean is basically dismissing Loyalty to players that have earned it. Now there is nothing about the game that i grew up Loving. The new CBA is looming and we can no longer say we did not do our part to add to the labor agreements failure. I get it that the Pohlads own the team, but to call it the Minnesota Twins means we are all a part if it. Say what you want about it being a business and now analytics form a robotic basis for evaluating the players. Did you ever really watch Kirby Puckett's face when he played? Or Torii's? Or Eddie Rosario's? remember Eduardo Escobar? it may sound dumb but this next strike us gonna kill me. The players are the game. If yoy get a diamond in the rough you cant sell it for Nothing. This FO us nithing special...they are cookie cutters if every single other one. I want to believe we are different but we aren't. Kiriloff wasnt going to make thus team anyways and everybody knows it. He saved their asses by playing like crap. Forget about our tradition it doesnt mean crap any more.

First, Kirilloff will not hit under .200 in St. Paul, if he is even still there when they start up.  I refute the argument though that our FO would have sent him over if he was hitting well.  Of course we will never know because it did not happen.  Only one time has anyone pointed to manipulation of service time under this FO and that was Buxton, but I would argue he did not warrant a call up.  He was doing terrible that season at MLB level and he was not tearing it up in AAA when he was down there to end the season.  To say he should have been called up because he could or you are manipulating service time is a step too far.  Did it work in their favor yes, but at the same time he was not playing at MLB level.

 

I agree the way the FO manages games now is not the same as it used to be.  In part that is because they have learned new ways to try and win.  I think teams would be happy to work on loyalty if they could expect it in return.  Both sides need to take those steps.  How often does a top FA stay with their present team?  There are a few top guys that have, but they were playing in large market team already.  So how often does a top FA, I mean the guys that can break the bank, stay with their home grown team?  

 

For some teams they are priced out of the market, and so they feel they need to manipulate service time to get that 1 more year of team control, or 1 more cheap year depending on how it was manipulated.  I do not put blame on either the owners or the players.  Both side agreed to the rules and both sides use them as best they can.  The issue with the current CBA is that the FO started playing by new rules of how they decided to evaluate older players.  

 

In the older days, late 90's to around 2010, teams used same type of evaluation and would give 30 year old 7 to 10 year deals.  They did this to lock up them for the first few years of the deal knowing it was dead money at end of it.  Also, record deals were being reached each year, even when the players were not the best in baseball but the best on the market.  

 

Well FO started to say why should we do this?  Lets start to limit these to not have bad money going out the door.  They learn ways through the rules to get the most of a player for cheap and then not pay them on the back end.  They also stopped giving out large contracts to lessor players just because they were the top guy that year.  

 

Well this led to players getting upset and now the big blow up is coming.  I do not predict the new CBA will look anything like it used too.  Before 1 year service time manipulation sucked, but player would still get paid, but now that 1 year manipulation could cost him a couple years on a deal and that much more money.  Players want to hit FA when they are 27, not when they are 30.  I would love to see a way to make players want to remain with teams, but a good FO needs to assume they cannot keep them all and plan for the future, as well as the present.  The Rays are masters at this.   

[Channing1964]

First, Kirilloff will not hit under .200 in St. Paul, if he is even still there when they start up.  I refute the argument though that our FO would have sent him over if he was hitting well.  Of course we will never know because it did not happen.  Only one time has anyone pointed to manipulation of service time under this FO and that was Buxton, but I would argue he did not warrant a call up.  He was doing terrible that season at MLB level and he was not tearing it up in AAA when he was down there to end the season.  To say he should have been called up because he could or you are manipulating service time is a step too far.  Did it work in their favor yes, but at the same time he was not playing at MLB level.

 

I agree the way the FO manages games now is not the same as it used to be.  In part that is because they have learned new ways to try and win.  I think teams would be happy to work on loyalty if they could expect it in return.  Both sides need to take those steps.  How often does a top FA stay with their present team?  There are a few top guys that have, but they were playing in large market team already.  So how often does a top FA, I mean the guys that can break the bank, stay with their home grown team?  

 

For some teams they are priced out of the market, and so they feel they need to manipulate service time to get that 1 more year of team control, or 1 more cheap year depending on how it was manipulated.  I do not put blame on either the owners or the players.  Both side agreed to the rules and both sides use them as best they can.  The issue with the current CBA is that the FO started playing by new rules of how they decided to evaluate older players.  

 

In the older days, late 90's to around 2010, teams used same type of evaluation and would give 30 year old 7 to 10 year deals.  They did this to lock up them for the first few years of the deal knowing it was dead money at end of it.  Also, record deals were being reached each year, even when the players were not the best in baseball but the best on the market.  

 

Well FO started to say why should we do this?  Lets start to limit these to not have bad money going out the door.  They learn ways through the rules to get the most of a player for cheap and then not pay them on the back end.  They also stopped giving out large contracts to lessor players just because they were the top guy that year.  

 

Well this led to players getting upset and now the big blow up is coming.  I do not predict the new CBA will look anything like it used too.  Before 1 year service time manipulation sucked, but player would still get paid, but now that 1 year manipulation could cost him a couple years on a deal and that much more money.  Players want to hit FA when they are 27, not when they are 30.  I would love to see a way to make players want to remain with teams, but a good FO needs to assume they cannot keep them all and plan for the future, as well as the present.  The Rays are masters at this.

 

I think you are absolutely right. I just miss the old days. Can you imagine if we had lost Kirby in say 1989(or whenever they signed him to that extension) A lot of people wanted to complain about Mauer's final contract. Not me. It would not have mattered if he were the last man off the bench he would have been worth it because he was US. He did way more to help all those teams than any of us would ever know. He was a great Minnesota Twin. The reason no little kids wanna play ball anymore is because there's no hometown heroes...no one to emulate...to aspire to be like. For me it was Rod Carew, Tony Oliva, Harmon... Jim Perry. Even later...Torii, Mauer, Nathan, Santana, Morneau. I just hope this next CBA looks to make things better, not damage it irreparably. Sorry I did not mean to jack the thread.

[Major League Ready]

 

I think you are absolutely right. I just miss the old days. Can you imagine if we had lost Kirby in say 1989(or whenever they signed him to that extension) A lot of people wanted to complain about Mauer's final contract. Not me. It would not have mattered if he were the last man off the bench he would have been worth it because he was US. He did way more to help all those teams than any of us would ever know. He was a great Minnesota Twin. The reason no little kids wanna play ball anymore is because there's no hometown heroes...no one to emulate...to aspire to be like. For me it was Rod Carew, Tony Oliva, Harmon... Jim Perry. Even later...Torii, Mauer, Nathan, Santana, Morneau. I just hope this next CBA looks to make things better, not damage it irreparably. Sorry I did not mean to jack the thread.

 

I have no problem with your preference for making personnel decisions based on sentiment over substance. That’s your prerogative and I would have absolutely no issue if this was your message but that’s not been your message. Your message has been that the front office is filled with morons because you insist that the best result for the club consists of moves that no other front office would make or in Escobar’s case refuse to make.