The 5 Rule Draft

[Doctor Gast]

If, after 4 minor league seasons they are only at Ft Myers, something may be wrong with the team's system. I may look to trade both or protect only 1.

 

Very good point! I overlooked the Ft. Myers point.

[terrydactyls]

If, after 4 minor league seasons they are only at Ft Myers, something may be wrong with the team's system. I may look to trade both or protect only 1.

 

If you read my posts, you would know. Both, of course I'd have to look at underlying conditions. If you knew me, you'd know I'm not a slave to stats.

Player A is Celestino and Player B is Baddoo. Picking both is a cop out. And the Twins did protect just one - Celestino.

[Doctor Gast]

Player A is Celestino and Player B is Baddoo. Picking both is a cop out. And the Twins did protect just one - Celestino.

It isn't a cop out it's the point of this thread.

[drivlikejehu]

While I wish Baddoo and Wells nothing but the best, if they continue to succeed, this forum will be unusable without blocking a pretty decent chunk of posters. Every thread will include numerous references to them as proof that random internet forum members are smarter at managing an MLB organization than the people that actually have the job.

 

Never mind inconvenient details . . . like the fact that trading mediocre depth for superior talent is something that never happens, zero out of 30 clubs are able to use such a strategy . . . all 30 clubs leave prospects with some degree of upside unprotected, unless their system is terrible . . . Baddoo was ranked by FG as Detroit's #18 prospect before the season, and some other sources had him even lower . . . 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

[old nurse]

 

While I wish Baddoo and Wells nothing but the best, if they continue to succeed, this forum will be unusable without blocking a pretty decent chunk of posters. Every thread will include numerous references to them as proof that random internet forum members are smarter at managing an MLB organization than the people that actually have the job.

 

Never mind inconvenient details . . . like the fact that trading mediocre depth for superior talent is something that never happens, zero out of 30 clubs are able to use such a strategy . . . all 30 clubs leave prospects with some degree of upside unprotected, unless their system is terrible . . . Baddoo was ranked by FG as Detroit's #18 prospect before the season, and some other sources had him even lower . . . 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

You can trade for superior talent with your mediocre prospects. The superior talent though has a price tag the other team doesn’t want to pay, see Miami. 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

 

Player A is Celestino and Player B is Baddoo. Picking both is a cop out. And the Twins did protect just one - Celestino.

Man, i was hoping player A would be Rosario and player B Sano back when...

 

I knew it weren't, but still that woulda been my choice for cherrypicking stats.

 

 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

And as my memory ain't so hot for posts i read months ago, i figured i'd track down previous discussion:
 
http://twinsdaily.com/topic/42713-202021-rule-5-draft/
 
http://twinsdaily.com/topic/44262-twins-lose-multiple-prospects-in-the-2020-rule-5-draft/

 

I may well have missed some.

 

 

[Channing1964]

With the state of Baltimore and Detroit....who really cares? Badoo was prolly never gonna beat out the Fabulous Jake Cave, the multi talented Kyle Garlick, or ever challenge top MLB prospects such as Kiriloff, Rooker, Celestino, or even Broxton. Plus we have ultimate swiss army knife J.T. Riddle waiting in the wings. To be a top front office executive, you can't be afraid to make difficult decisions. I'm not sure if I can recall Wells ever being a threat to make the 40 man either. Badoo is a flash in the pan...we won't hear about him after May 1st. Do not worry fellow Twins Fan, D.F and T.L have got every base covered.

[twinfan]

Just pray he isn't the next Roberto Clemente who was left unprotected by the Dodgers way back when. Rules were different back then with bonus babies (Killebrew) but having Rule 5 players become stars is rare.

[KirbyDome89]

 

While I wish Baddoo and Wells nothing but the best, if they continue to succeed, this forum will be unusable without blocking a pretty decent chunk of posters. Every thread will include numerous references to them as proof that random internet forum members are smarter at managing an MLB organization than the people that actually have the job.

 

Never mind inconvenient details . . . like the fact that trading mediocre depth for superior talent is something that never happens, zero out of 30 clubs are able to use such a strategy . . . all 30 clubs leave prospects with some degree of upside unprotected, unless their system is terrible . . . Baddoo was ranked by FG as Detroit's #18 prospect before the season, and some other sources had him even lower . . . 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

Ignoring comments out of necessity seems like a far less drastic solution than shutting down conversation entirely, which is what an appeal to authority attempts to do. This is after all, a fan forum, designed to encourage fan discussion/interaction. 

[Doctor Gast]

Ignoring comments out of necessity seems like a far less drastic solution than shutting down conversation entirely, which is what an appeal to authority attempts to do. This is after all, a fan forum, designed to encourage fan discussion/interaction.

 

I want to personally thank you for your edifying response!

[Doctor Gast]

 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

 This is not 100% hindsight- I've been advocating this for well over a year and posting it because I could fore see this problem (losing players via rule 5). I posted this thread because I haven`t seen any reaction and this problem will only get worse

 

This isn't fantasy thinking- Using SD as an example, they been using this policy for years. Not only making great draft picks, they have been upgrading their prospect thus later being able to upgrade their  40 man in which they can upgrade their active roster by trading.  W/O creating such a great farm system they could've pulled off these massive trading deals. They haven't swallowed the narrative that's there no trades out there.Yes we don`t have the farm system that SD had or has (that needs to be worked on for years) but we could've easily pulled off at least one (which I'll discuss more in depth later). This the only way a small market can compete with the Evil Empire (large market teams)

 

Very few trades the FO has intiated, most are offerings from others teams, when we  were selling. The only exception that I can remember is the Romo and Dyer trades. The narrative that there is no trades out there is an excuse for not procuring, hating to negociate and over-valuing  big bats/ weak gloves. There have been a great deal of trades out there if you only look. PIT alone had many opportunities for pitching upgades. PIT has a talent for finding pitching but don't know how to develop or coach  them, every pitcher that left there w/ poor stats blossomed else where. They were motivated to trade most of their pitching. Tailon and Musgrove were available and having Sheldon as a contact would've facilitate the transaction. Tailon and especially Musgrove have dominated this spring so far. I've advocated for Musgrove for awhile, he was also offered to us. The problem was that they wanted Larnach, which is a fair trade but understandablly FO didn't want to give him up and they wrote off the trade. The thing is that they shouldn't have given up but counter offered with several lesser valued prospects. SD pursued the trade and closed the deal that included 5 prospects that together didn't equal 1 Larnach. This transaction would not have  involved hard negociations but they chose not to. IMO they over value their big bats/ weak gloves so any fair deals that can be negociated are out right refused. They draft, protect     and hoard this type of player. Their priority needs to change.

 

I've been raised to think for myself. To observe, to look for unbias info or any underlying conditions and make a rational conclusion  and solutions- not to believe everything that I`m told or think inside the box that people want to put me in. I'm trying to be patient with this   front      office because I like the way they develop pitchers and hitters. I created this thread not  to criticize but to help improve this team and come up some solutions.   But drivlikejehu your comment has made me lose hope and patience w/ this FO. I don't see them taking the next step of making shrewd and bold trades to compete in the PS. Now I wish that Levine had taken that job in Philly and pursue Andy Macphail. He wasn't afraid to make necessary trades.

[jun]

Trade Cave for Akil Baddo, trade Colome for Tyler Wells.

[Shaitan]

 

Just pray he isn't the next Roberto Clemente who was left unprotected by the Dodgers way back when. Rules were different back then with bonus babies (Killebrew) but having Rule 5 players become stars is rare.

He's far more likely to be the next Delino DeShields Jr.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

He's far more likely to be the next Delino DeShields Jr.

Would that make him "Delino DeShields III"?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

To rephrase myself, I'd trade 2 or more lesser value players for a greater valued player. Ideally from an excess area for an area of need. Teams do that all the time. That is how I'd help make room and improve the quality of the 40 man.

 

I don't think teams do this all the time. I'd be hard pressed to find this type of thing done consistently. 

 

I also think that there's an assumption that we didn't try and deal Badoo... we don't know. I suspect the FO didn't think he'd be taken, and understandably so, but any time you leave a guy unprotected, you run that risk. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I'd trade 2 or more lesser value players for a greater valued player. Ideally from an excess area for an area of need. Teams do that all the time. That is how I'd help make room and improve the quality of the 40 man.

The only time this happens is when you're trading for a star MLB player.

 

Unless you're the Rockies, who trade a star for basically nothing.

 

PS. Don't be the Rockies.

[gunnarthor]

 

While I wish Baddoo and Wells nothing but the best, if they continue to succeed, this forum will be unusable without blocking a pretty decent chunk of posters. Every thread will include numerous references to them as proof that random internet forum members are smarter at managing an MLB organization than the people that actually have the job.

 

Never mind inconvenient details . . . like the fact that trading mediocre depth for superior talent is something that never happens, zero out of 30 clubs are able to use such a strategy . . . all 30 clubs leave prospects with some degree of upside unprotected, unless their system is terrible . . . Baddoo was ranked by FG as Detroit's #18 prospect before the season, and some other sources had him even lower . . . 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

You mean like how PED Ortiz was brought up every other day for 15 years? Annoying, wasn't it?

[Danchat]

 

While I wish Baddoo and Wells nothing but the best, if they continue to succeed, this forum will be unusable without blocking a pretty decent chunk of posters. Every thread will include numerous references to them as proof that random internet forum members are smarter at managing an MLB organization than the people that actually have the job.

 

Never mind inconvenient details . . . like the fact that trading mediocre depth for superior talent is something that never happens, zero out of 30 clubs are able to use such a strategy . . . all 30 clubs leave prospects with some degree of upside unprotected, unless their system is terrible . . . Baddoo was ranked by FG as Detroit's #18 prospect before the season, and some other sources had him even lower . . . 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

 

Well... I went through the Rule 5 "Protection" thread that included some talk on which prospects should be protected. I counted a single post that said "we should protect Baddoo". 

 

If anyone is claiming that they knew this was coming... let's see the evidence. While there were some concerned he could be picked, nobody expected this outcome.

[old nurse]

 

Well... I went through the Rule 5 "Protection" thread that included some talk on which prospects should be protected. I counted a single post that said "we should protect Baddoo". 

 

If anyone is claiming that they knew this was coming... let's see the evidence. While there were some concerned he could be picked, nobody expected this outcome.

The FO had an idea he could. https://www.mlb.com/news/twins-no-74-pick-akil-baddoo-agree-to-deal-c184202598 They took a chance on roster flexibility and lost a player, The true nonsense of this thread is thinking he will continue to hit this way. I liked the Cael Crawford comp. His OPS was .781 for the Rays. He became a handsomely paid mediocre player.  Eddie Rosario with the same OPS did not. 

 

[Doctor Gast]

Well... I went through the Rule 5 "Protection" thread that included some talk on which prospects should be protected. I counted a single post that said "we should protect Baddoo".

 

If anyone is claiming that they knew this was coming... let's see the evidence. While there were some concerned he could be picked, nobody expected this outcome.

Maybe not many believed that Baddo and Wells could've been selected. But because of teams shedding payroll and not going after FAs, that opens up the rule 5 draft as a source. Twins have capitalized on it for years. This increases the possibility to losing them.

This comes back the point. Were Baddo and Wells worth protecting or not? If so, we need to find a way to do so. I offered my suggestion.

Just not to go around the same tree again. Although, I believe we need more depth in true CFs and pitchers and Baddo and Wells could some day make the team (especially Baddo because he's a LH hitter which opens a platoon opportunity). But some how after we developed them, they don't, they make good trading pieces due to their high demand positions.