Souhan: Being A Twins Fan Requires Patience

[Ultima Ratio]

Lazy, stupid, retarded, dumb, ****: The seminal arrows in a logician's quiver -- Aristotle

[ThePuck]

Lazy, stupid, retarded, dumb, ****: The seminal arrows in a logician's quiver -- Aristotle

 

Pure poetry...by a person thinking the quality of posts/posters have gone down so much since the good old days :-)

Nothing brings up the quality of posts quite like that kind of poetry...

[Ultima Ratio]

Pure poetry...by a person thinking the quality of posts/posters have gone down so much since the good old days :-)

Nothing brings up the quality of posts quite like that kind of poetry...

 

I find this irony as queer as smoking while on a cannula of oxygen.

[TheLeviathan]

Nov 9th MLB trade rumors

 

Thanks....you do realize that quote isn't at all what you've portrayed it to be....right?

[DaveW]

Thanks....you do realize that quote isn't at all what you've portrayed it to be....right?

 

There were numerous other reports out there saying the Twins were shopping Willingham, but were waiting for the right price, just like the numerous reports that said they were shopping Span and waiting for the right price, the reality is there is no huge rush to trade Willingham at this point anyways, the OF just lost 2 of its 3 starting people this off-season so off the bat plenty of rookies (or near rookies) such as Benson, hicks, Parmelee will get there shot in the OF, if the Twins are out of it (most likely) they will def have Willingham back on the block, my question to you is: would you rather have traded him back then for sub value, or waited until his value went up a bit to get rid of him?

 

FWIW: I don't mind them holding onto him heading into the season, if by some small chance the Twins are able to compete Willingham will be a big reason why. I think it was pretty obvious the Twins were rebuilding when they choose to trade both Span and Revere this off-season for players who for the most part won't be able to help in 2013 (the exception being Worley who arguably wasn't the center piece of that trade anyways)

 

Again I will keep faith in Ryan because he has had a solid track record in the past building teams and because the Twins suddenly have at op farm system in baseball along with a decent core of players at the major league level who have some talent (albeit the ones without a lot of talent are pretty bad!)

[DaveW]

Lazy, stupid, retarded, dumb, ****: The seminal arrows in a logician's quiver -- Aristotle

 

LOL who is being the condescending prick now? Instead of playing the holier then now schtick how about you respond to the actual arguments at hand?

[Oldgoat_MN]

Does anyone remember what the article was about? Oh yeah, Souhan.

 

I believe more could have been done. I think more should have been done.

 

The article (remember the article?) is a whitewash. We will certainly cheer for the Twins, but the fans deserved better.

[TheLeviathan]

There were numerous other reports out there saying the Twins were shopping Willingham, but were waiting for the right price, just like the numerous reports that said they were shopping Span and waiting for the right price, the reality is there is no huge rush to trade Willingham at this point anyways,

 

Right, so going back to what I said - we only know it "wasn't the right price" - we have no idea what prices were being offered. The problem with this thinking is that Willingham is only going to get less valuable in all likelihood. He might maintain his value, but it's quite unlikely. A rebuilding team with this many OF options shouldn't be concerned with moving an aging player like Willingham. It's a mistake to not be aggressive about shopping him. I fear we are far, far away from being aggressive about it.

 

If it's so obvious we are rebuilding, why is the OF in the twilight of his career coming off a career year still on this team? That's the mistake being pointed out and you really don't have an answer for that short of "I trust Ryan". That's fine, but that's all it is. It's a valid point to see not moving him as a mistake.

[Mike Sixel]

Easy for Jim to write....he is not a fan. He does not pay for tickets. The Twins had money to spend, and refused to do so. They also refused to do so when Ryan was the GM before. I do not think this is a coincidence. This is who Ryan is. I feel had for Mauer. At least Morneau can leave after this year.

[bird]

Souhan never seems to miss an opportunity to act like a snarky little brat. I doubt he has much conviction about what he wrote. It was probably much more about taking a pot shot at bloggers and us commenters, the noveau fans. Just another exercise in triteness by Souhan for the most part.

 

The thread sort of digressed into a discussion (again) about rebuilding, and whether they're going about it in the "right way". My thought is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I don't think any of us noveau fans believe they're NOT rebuilding.

 

Baseball can't happen soon enough, my friends. We're rehashing three themes constantly:

 

1. Are they rebuilding the right way?

2. Did they lie to us?

3. Are we entitled to more?

 

In his snarky way, I think Souhan was taking his biggest pot shot at those who constantly bitch about the second two points, not the first. As much as I dislike Souhan, I can fully understand this.

 

Let's play ball.

[Brock Beauchamp]

You're being pretty assumptious that the guys you mention would receive maximum value this offseason. All those guys can still be traded.

 

I'm not saying they should be traded but if this is the course the franchise is taking, they should have been publicly available. I understand that trades don't happen overnight but there is plenty of talent to shop on this roster if the team is planning a full rebuild.

 

And if they're not planning a full rebuild, they should have spent some money. That's my issue with this offseason. They're straddling the fence instead of committing to one course of action.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Wow Brock, never thought I'd see you join the ranks of the mouth breathers crew on this site but you just gave it a good shot. Carroll has no trade value and is much better then any internal option, they actively shopped Willingham and didn't get any good offers, I wouldn't be shocked if he was traded later this year and plus, the twins can compete in 2014 when he is still under contract. Perkins is still young and could be a big piece moving forward, unless you wanna go out and overpay for a closer when the Twins do compete again.

 

iMO the only terrible decision made this off season was giving Corrieia the 2nd year. But at least that is only 5 mil

 

Yes, Dave. I'm a "mouth breather" by stating that the team should either try to win (within reason) by spending some money on the free agent market or they should blow up the roster and liquidate players. It wouldn't have taken much to pick up quality FAs. Skip Correia, pick up Saunders and Marcum instead, then pick up a mediocre middle infielder. All of that would have cost a grand total of $15m. I'm not asking for the world. I'm asking that the team not try to shovel crap down our throats and expect us to appreciate the gesture.

 

And I saw absolutely zero evidence that Willingham was shopped this offseason.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Nov 9th MLB trade rumors:

 

The Twins might not receive much more than a No. 4 starter in exchange for Josh Willingham, an AL executive tells Phil Mackey of 1500 ESPN Twin Cities Radio. "There's no doubt Josh has a very good contract, but I really doubt a team would trade a viable starting pitcher for a guy with a strong bat but who is limited defensively," the executive said. "It's a lot easier to find a left-field or DH-type than to trade a good starting pitcher for one and then have to backfill the rotation spot." The 33-year-old Willingham is owed $14MM through 2014 and posted an .890 OPS last season, but another AL executive says Denard Span is a better trade chip for Minnesota.

Read more at

Josh Willingham Rumors: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

 

That was before Span was traded. It's pretty obvious that once Revere and Span were gone, any chance of trading Willingham was off the table (if it wasn't off the table from the get-go). My point is that if the team isn't going to spend even a moderate amount of money on the FA market, the front office should put everyone on the trade block.

 

I don't even mind that Willingham wasn't traded. My point is that they didn't try. It's very possible that nobody want Willingham right now. That's understandable, given his breakout (and probably career) season in 2012. But unless you're going to make a legitimate attempt to build a decent roster, everybody should be available.

[jokin]

Yes, Dave. I'm a "mouth breather" by stating that the team should either try to win (within reason) by spending some money on the free agent market or they should blow up the roster and liquidate players. It wouldn't have taken much to pick up quality FAs. Skip Correia, pick up Saunders and Marcum instead, then pick up a mediocre middle infielder. All of that would have cost a grand total of $15m. I'm not asking for the world. I'm asking that the team not try to shovel crap down our throats and expect us to appreciate the gesture.

 

And I saw absolutely zero evidence that Willingham was shopped this offseason.

 

This somewhat accurately sums up what many of us are saying (between breaths), plus I will add that pretending to "fire" members of the coaching staff, retaining marginal-to-no-talent players year-after-year, and offering Butera anything other than a minor league contract seemed a blatant disregard of the fans.

[ashbury]

It's very possible that nobody want Willingham right now. That's understandable, given his breakout (and probably career) season in 2012.

 

And that he did not play in any of the final 8 games due to a bum shoulder. That's more than just a day-to-day situation, and he might have been DL'ed if it wasn't September. If I'm another team's GM I wait-and-see until mid-March at earliest.