More Proof that the Twins Just Don't Care or Aren't Trying Very Hard

[The Wise One]

Who said anything about proof? ?

 

you did in the title of your rant.

[jokin]

Doumit as trade bait would not happen unless some had a couple of catchers go down early or near the traade deadline. At the trade deadline Hermann would have a half year at AAA.

Others have stated the PCL is a hitters league with smaller parks, so his batting numbers may not translate well to mlb level. That would be a hint why he has been DFA'd twice.

 

 

You also have to look at the DHs in baseball. Doumit is one of the better ones and has potential value at not one, but 2 positions (not the best catcher, I know). The Rays are rumored to have Roberts on the block, and Rodriguez may be expendable as well, and have an iffy DH coming off of injury, that's but one example. If they or someone else is willing to consider a Spring Training trade, given the Twins holes in the infield, shouldn't the Twins be listening now, and be prepared to move seamlessly? If they wait until the deadline? Herrmann may be ready at the break, but then again, he may not. Good to have backup alternatives, yes?

 

Regarding Martinez's hitting, do you read the posts? I got the hint, as I pointed out that his AAA numbers were in the PCL, but they still translate far better than what the Twins currently have behind Doumit and Mauer for 2012. Is there anyone that doubts that Butera couldn't put up those kind of numbers in the PCL?

[jokin]

you did in the title of your rant.

 

Different point than what I believe the poster was arguing against.

 

You can continue to defend what the the club has done in the offseason. I am looking at a club that addressed the most pressing need haphazardly from the rejection pile and the Red Cross casualty list, failed to address glaring problems in the infield and tore itself some new holes in the OF. Since they are rebuilding without admitting it publicly, it makes sense to have a plan in place to continue to improve the club by trading off assets that won't be a part of the finished rebuilt product in whatever year they secretly deem to be when they "really" return to competitiveness- Butera shouldn't be there now, let alone then and if they have any sense at all, Doumit probably won't be there, either. Martinez was acquirable for nothing and could have provided short-term depth to help make the team more stomachable during this bridge time and at least send the message that 9 shades below mediocrity as a hitting catcher is no longer acceptable, the spots should be earned, not deemed.

[jokin]

Seriously. Frankly. (And I do severely dislike Butera's scholarship)

 

Catching was not what made the Twins lose 99 plus 96. (matter of fact C, and LF were the only 2 positions that the Twins had OPS higher than the AL average last season)

 

Bigger. Fish. To Fry.

(and they have not fried them yet.)

So getting a better 5th Catcher for a 96-loss team, would be like putting lipstick on a cement yard ornament pig

 

Don't you see trade-value in Doumit, provided he puts up numbers akin to 2012, to upgrade the team longer-term?

[jokin]

So bring in a 7th question mark, and a 6th catcher on the 40-man? Sounds like excellent usage of roster spots.

 

Obviously, someone, or someones, are expendable, or in Doumit's case, possibly tradeable.

[Twins Twerp]

Are the other 28 teams also not trying? They also passed on claiming this guy. I understand if you do not agree with what the twins do but to headline a forum with "not trying" is absurd. Even philly fans are not this negative.

[FrodaddyG]

Obviously, someone, or someones, are expendable, or in Doumit's case, possibly tradeable.

So your response to "We have too many question marks at catcher!" is "We need to bring in more question marks at catcher!"

[Craig Arko]

You can never have too much catching.

 

They should invite 34 of them to camp.

[FrodaddyG]

Don't you see trade-value in Doumit, provided he puts up numbers akin to 2012, to upgrade the team longer-term?

So where the **** does yet another catcher go until Doumit hypothetically gets traded later this summer? Carry 4 catchers at AAA? Yet again, awesome roster composition.

[jokin]

1.) They paid Butera. Nobody else will take on that money for him. He's a Twin for the season.

2.) Herrmann could fill in as a backup catcher in a pinch. More minors ABs would be optimal, but worse comes to worse, he'd be serviceable in limited, third-catcher ABs.

3.) Are you saying that they should try and trade Doumit NOW? If it happens, it'll be possibly near the trade deadline, and guess who has had another "half a year" in the minors by that point?

 

We're aware that Butera sucks, but the Twins have committed to him, and screaming that they should bring in a marginal-at-best upgrade just for the sake of bring in a marginal-at-best upgrade is pointless.

 

1) As many have pointed out in the discussion of money management, the 700K committed to Butera is chump change. You are correct, no one else will take on that money, you can use him at the major league level or Rochester. That the Twins were willing to re-sign him and give him a raise demonstrates that the Twins aren't trying very hard to send the message about improvements.

 

2) You again answered your own point about the downside and potential pitfalls in calling up and relying on someone too soon. Herrmann would best benefit getting as many PAs and caught games as possible, not riding the Twins bench.

 

3) The Rays are reported to be shopping Ryan Roberts, now. Sean Rodriguez has been demoted to a utility role and the Rays have a young prospect biting at the bit. This is but one team's scenario at bolstering the Twins infield.

[jokin]

You can never have too much catching.

 

They should invite 34 of them to camp.

 

How about we cut the 31 that aren't doing anything now, or project to doing much of anything later?

[FrodaddyG]

3) The Rays are reported to be shopping Ryan Roberts, now. Sean Rodriguez has been demoted to a utility role and the Rays have a young prospect biting at the bit. This is but one team's scenario at bolstering the Twins infield.

Can they wait and find some non-****ty players to trade Doumit for?

[jokin]

So your response to "We have too many question marks at catcher!" is "We need to bring in more question marks at catcher!"

 

Heh-heh. This is your response to my saying that we need to cut catchers and possibly trade an asset, not add more?

[FrodaddyG]

Heh-heh. This is your response to my saying that we need to cut catchers and possibly trade an asset, not add more?

No, this is a response to you saying that bringing in another marginal catcher is a useful move when the team has a glut of identically marginal catchers already in the fold.

[jokin]

Can they wait and find some non-****ty players to trade Doumit for?

 

I hope we can do much better than this! This was but one example. Sadly, the state of the Twins MI is at such low ebb, that guys like this look like rays of sunshine.

[jokin]

No, this is a response to you saying that bringing in another marginal catcher is a useful move when the team has a glut of identically marginal catchers already in the fold.

 

Except that this guy is major league ready and has a superior track record in AAA.... and costs nothing to find out if he's a bust.

[FrodaddyG]

I hope we can do much better than this! This was but one example. Sadly, the state of the Twins MI is at such low ebb, that guys like this look like rays of sunshine.

So, now you throw out a trade of a useful asset for not good players as an example of a move to "upgrade" to the team. Nothing screams "take what I say seriously" quite like that.

[jokin]

So where the **** does yet another catcher go until Doumit hypothetically gets traded later this summer? Carry 4 catchers at AAA? Yet again, awesome roster composition.

 

Yeah, because we can't cut one of these AAA catchers were to Martinez beat him out?

[jokin]

So, now you throw out a trade of a useful asset for not good players as an example of a move to "upgrade" to the team. Nothing screams "take what I say seriously" quite like that.

 

No screaming here. The facts are: Twins MI is terrible going into 2013. Doumit has a limited shelf life of value left in his career. Roberts and Rodriguez would upgrade the Twins..... but I certainly hope they could do better than that in trade.

[FrodaddyG]

No screaming here. The facts are: Twins MI is terrible going into 2013. Doumit has a limited shelf life of value left in his career. Roberts and Martinez would upgrade the Twins..... but I certainly hope they could do better than that in trade.

Between Roberts "being-31-years-old-ness" and Rodriguez' ".607 OPS from last year", which screams "long-term upgrade" to you more?

[glunn]

There is some interesting baseball discussion in this thread. I just wish that we could start it over with a different title, more mutual respect and no personal attacks.

[RodneyKline]

Stupid comment Spirit Vodka...If I said this every time I thought it, I would have as many posts as you do. Amazing whenever a putz behind a computer thinks it is interesting to just say someone else's thread is stupid. If you have a more interesting post then post it, if not stop being a faux bully.

[Guest USAFChief]

No dude your a ****ing troll and a jackass, I have no idea why they haven't banned you by now, you contribute nothing to the site in any sort of meaningful way. Because the Twins didn't sign a 27 year old AAAA catcher, suddenly they "don't care"? The Twins already have plenty of depth at Catcher in Mauer and Doumit. Yes, Butera sucks, we all know that, but we already owe him 1 million this year, now is not the time to cut him, and I am betting Luis Martinez is just not a very good catcher, if he was he certainly would have had more then 100 at bats to his name in the majors.

 

It's one thing to disagree with how the Twins run things, you are simply trolling and throwing **** against a wall.

This, coming from someone who claims that because Butera is owed "1 million this year" the Twins are somehow obligated to keep him on the roster. Sheesh. Great reasoning, that.

[ashbury]

I can't get worked up over a player who had an age-26 OPS of .800 in a PCL hitter's haven. Put Drew Butera in Tucson, he'd hit about the same. And anyway upgrading your third-string catcher is about 25th priority on a last place team, and addressing such a need by dumpster-diving for players every other team has passed on is not what I want the team I root for doing unless they think they have spotted a real "pony in the pile".

[PseudoSABR]

This, coming from someone who claims that because Butera is owed "1 million this year" the Twins are somehow obligated to keep him on the roster. Sheesh. Great reasoning, that.

Well they shouldn't cut Butera and then spend another league minimum on some other player. As a spendthrift, I thought you'd be interested in reducing cost. Cutting Butera and signing another potential major league catcher, doesn't save any money, nor really makes the team any better.

 

The criticism in this thread is baseless. There might be legitimate criticism against the FO's desire to put a winning team on the field in 2013--this sure ain't one of them.

[FrodaddyG]

The criticism in this thread is baseless. There might be legitimate criticism against the FO's desire to put a winning team on the field in 2013--this sure ain't one of them.

But when rebuilding, it's important to start by focusing on the most important building blocks. You know, like the third catcher that 95% of teams don't carry in the first place.

[bird]

Who said anything about proof? Parmellee tore the cover off the ball in his 2011 September call-up from AA and struggled in 2012 (.229/.290/.380). The evidence fairly convincingly suggests that the jump from AA to the majors is rarely a smooth one. Even if Herrmann tears the cover off the ball this spring, are you suggesting that he is somehow odds-on favorite to be on the opening day roster?

 

Um, you said something about proof, jokin. In your usual inflammatory, hateful style. Sincere advice: take this thread to a shrink and work through it with this professional. Do this with an honest mind and a softened heart. For your own sake and for the sake of those you affect.

[beckmt]

Nothing is going to change this year. This is the year to find out what the Twins have and where they need replacements. I expect a great deal of roster turnover this year, trading deadline and maybe some spring training deals. There is no difference except to the blood pressure if the Twins lose 85 games or 99 games. This year is going to be about finding talent. Butera will be gone at the end of it anyway, so live with it.

[DaveW]

This, coming from someone who claims that because Butera is owed "1 million this year" the Twins are somehow obligated to keep him on the roster. Sheesh. Great reasoning, that.

Meh, the numbers were off, for some reason I thought he got 1 mil in arbitration (super 2 etc). They certainly aren't obligated to keep him on the roster, but at this point it's pretty clear they value Butera at least a bit, and he certainly isn't worth cutting (and eating the money) for yet another AAAA catcher. Yes, let's give a guy a contract for 700k then cut him before spring training even begins, just so we can bring in another catcher who most likely will never hack it in the major leagues, oh, by the way, we already have what is most likely the best catching duo in all of baseball in Mauer and Doumit.

[DaveW]

This year is going to be about finding talent. Butera will be gone at the end of it anyway, so live with it.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Either way though, Butera and 3rd catcher is way towards the bottom of the Twins "issues" moving forward.