Mason: Correia expects to eat up innings for the Twins

[nicksaviking]

I say we shut the whole thing down. Sorry TD - LoganJones feels all opinions are meaningless. So....we all just agree to de-bookmark, have a beer, and go our separate ways then? I think that's his point. Nothing else is "rational" to borrow a term.

 

Unless.....you see that he's stick-banging about stick-banging. And if stick-banging is meaningless then his stick banging about the stick-banging meaningless. Problem....solved?

 

Keep it up guys and Bachmann is going to spearpoint another effort to make stick banging illegal according to Minesota's constitiution.

[ThePuck]

No. At this point all you're doing is whining. You aren't in a postion to hold the team to anything. You're angry because you don't like the direction and there's nothing you can do about it. You're certain you have better plans than the Twins, but for a cruel twist of fate you are working at an insurance company rather than the Twins front office.

 

these kind of comments right here...wow...

[ThePuck]

In the last three years COMBINED, Correia's value was less than 5M. And that's a bit distorted when you figure that last year, his contract year, was worth 4M all by itself.

[LoganJones]

these kind of comments right here...wow...

Wow is a word I use to describe grown men whining like little children over a baseball team day in and day out without the slightest bit of self awareness. But, thanks to the kind work of people who showed me how to manage the ignore feature, I don't need to bother with it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Wow is a word I use to describe grown men whining like little children over a baseball team day in and day out without the slightest bit of self awareness. But, thanks to the kind work of people who showed me how to manage the ignore feature, I don't need to bother with it.

 

You new to the Internet?

 

Also, I fail to see the difference between the whiners and those who whine about them.

[ThePuck]

Wow is a word I use to describe grown men whining like little children over a baseball team day in and day out without the slightest bit of self awareness. But, thanks to the kind work of people who showed me how to manage the ignore feature, I don't need to bother with it.

 

self awareness huh? Interesting. You're full of insults. Spend a lot of time insulting people you don't know because of their opinion. What does that say about you? Since, you know, you're apparently self aware.

[S.]

Wow is a word I use to describe grown men whining like little children over a baseball team day in and day out without the slightest bit of self awareness. But, thanks to the kind work of people who showed me how to manage the ignore feature, I don't need to bother with it.

http://i51.tinypic.com/ambdoo.gif

 

Looks to me like you're still bothering with it.

[ThePuck]

You new to the Internet?

 

Also, I fail to see the difference between the whiners and those who whine about them.

 

 

Apparently you need to be self-aware to know the difference :-)

[Nick Nelson]

Defending the signing of a bad pitcher by pointing out that he's slightly less horrible than the worst pitchers on one of the worst staffs in the majors last year, and then calling others irrational, is... odd.

 

Honestly, I think the justifiable frustration with the Correia signing stems mostly from two things: 1) He was the premier free agent pitching acquisition by a team that claimed to be serious about wanting to turn around a horrendous rotation. 2) The extra year. It means this isn't quite as simple as -- in your words -- "if he sucks, he'll get cut." The Twins are now obligated to stick with him past the point where he proves himself a liability because they have a chunk of cash committed to him the following year. See: Nick Blackburn.

[LoganJones]

You new to the Internet?

 

Also, I fail to see the difference between the whiners and those who whine about them.

 

Fair enough. My point is merely that a person like Seth who's been proven to have access and insight to baseball that most of these forum posters suggested that perhaps enough e-ink had been spilled in the name of bemoaning the Correia signing over the past month. The response to that was throwing hands in the air about free speech and censorship. There's no need for it. We're here to talk about baseball, a game, a fun pastime. If that level of ire is fun for you have at it. Also, go to my ignore list, that's all.

[TheLeviathan]

Fair enough. My point is merely that a person like Seth who's been proven to have access and insight to baseball that most of these forum posters suggested that perhaps enough e-ink had been spilled in the name of bemoaning the Correia signing over the past month. The response to that was throwing hands in the air about free speech and censorship. There's no need for it. We're here to talk about baseball, a game, a fun pastime. If that level of ire is fun for you have at it. Also, go to my ignore list, that's all.

 

This sounds like all the awful, inane arguments made by many other posters around here lately, but after they just stepped in a broken container of ooze and mutated into it's purest insanity.

 

Holy crap.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Fair enough. My point is merely that a person like Seth who's been proven to have access and insight to baseball that most of these forum posters suggested that perhaps enough e-ink had been spilled in the name of bemoaning the Correia signing over the past month. The response to that was throwing hands in the air about free speech and censorship. There's no need for it. We're here to talk about baseball, a game, a fun pastime. If that level of ire is fun for you have at it. Also, go to my ignore list, that's all.

 

This is a typical January for a Twins fan. Promises were made, they went unfulfilled, and people who put emotional stock in this franchise are pissed about it. Now we're heading into a new season without much in the way of hope and baseball hasn't actually started so nobody has anything to talk about other than how much they've hated this offseason (and free agent wise, who can blame anyone for being mad?).

 

In about three weeks, the 250 post Correia threads will die down. People will have other things to talk about as on-field play starts and we can get excited about the Hicks and Arcias of the world instead of bemoaning the awful Correia signing (which wouldn't even draw much ire if Ryan had gone and also picked up someone who is legitimately good at the game of baseball).

[ashbury]

No, it doesn't. I've never once suggested guys like Sanchez or Grienke wouldn't have been even better for the rotation.

 

Never? You had said the following, less than 30 minutes earlier:

 

If the team has a functioning offense that can put up similar numbers to last year, Correia will put the team in a postion to win a very similar percentage of games Sanchez will for the Tigers, at much less cost.

 

Similar wins for less cost. How is this *not* saying Sanchez *wouldn't* have been better?

[TheLeviathan]

Never? You had said the following, less than 30 minutes earlier:

 

If the team has a functioning offense that can put up similar numbers to last year, Correia will put the team in a postion to win a very similar percentage of games Sanchez will for the Tigers, at much less cost.

 

Similar wins for less cost. How is this *not* saying Sanchez *wouldn't* have been better?

 

Dude...now you're on the ignore list too! What are you thinking?

[FrodaddyG]

Dude...now you're on the ignore list too! What are you thinking?

If a tree posts on the internet, but everyone is on ignore, does it make a sound?

[ThePuck]

Dude...now you're on the ignore list too! What are you thinking?

 

Would stink to have an ignore list consisting of everyone who disagrees with you....it'd get rather boring...but I guess it'd make you feel better about your own opinions...

[snepp]

Would someone do me a favor and tell me what Puck said, I've got him on ignore.

 

 

[ashbury]

Dude...now you're on the ignore list too! What are you thinking?

 

After I hit "Post" I remembered I had meant to add "I realize I may be replying to a troll," but then was glad I had not, since when is it ever wise to knowingly reply to a troll? I'll pretend I didn't realize, though it implies I'm not too bright. Wait, if I'm saying this, it's in hopes you will know I'm not actually stupid. Where is that Cancel bu-

[ashbury]

Would someone do me a favor and tell me what Puck said, I've got him on ignore.

 

Sorry. I would, but I'm ignoring you.

[Mike Sixel]

Can we see who has ignored us?

[LoganJones]

Defending the signing of a bad pitcher by pointing out that he's slightly less horrible than the worst pitchers on one of the worst staffs in the majors last year, and then calling others irrational, is... odd.

 

Honestly, I think the justifiable frustration with the Correia signing stems mostly from two things: 1) He was the premier free agent pitching acquisition by a team that claimed to be serious about wanting to turn around a horrendous rotation. 2) The extra year. It means this isn't quite as simple as -- in your words -- "if he sucks, he'll get cut." The Twins are now obligated to stick with him past the point where he proves himself a liability because they have a chunk of cash committed to him the following year. See: Nick Blackburn.

 

If You think that 8% in a rate stat like ERA+ is 'slightly less', then I wonder if you really have been thinking about it in terms of baseball. Imagine if the Tigers had received that slight of a difference in their run differential last year? They got the 88 wins they were expected to have based on surrendering 670 runs. Instead they surrender 723. A measly 8% more runs, right? Well that pushes their win expectancy to 81 wins, assuming their offense stays the same. Their Team ERA+ was 112. So we'll be charitable and say that the crazy high number of unerned runs doesn't increase with that worse pitching, and only increase the number of earned runs allowed 8 percent. 718 runs. Tigers are now 82 and 80. Obviously the Os can talk about beating Pythagorean records, but it's right a lot more than it's not. Let's be crazy and give the Twins an 8% reduction in earned runs last year. The win total isn't awe inspiring, but it is 73. Obviously, Correia's contribution to that would be 1/5 and you'd like to shoot for more, but just holding your breath and saying it not any good at all, is just not correct.

 

It's been established that he wasn't a super desirable signing. Making that point a month ago is not irrational, still banging on about it day after day like it will do any good is plain insanity. They needed stability, their scouting department looked at the things they look at and valued the guy at 5 mil. He obviously had other offers and they felt that going 2 years wasn't crazy or a huge waste of cash. His signing did not preclude the signing of actual better players. They still have plenty of flexibility to add other people. They acquired Worley, they signed Pelfrey. They didn't sign Jackson, Marcum or Baker. These are all guys who various people had hoped they would. There is no chance they signing of Correia is the reason they didn't move on any of the other guys. Focusing on him like he's the reason they're not going to win next year is, yes, totally irrational.

[lightfoot789]

i'm in agreement with the twins geek... The correia bashing should stop now. We all know we don't like the signing, particularly the second year, but he is signed, so move on. Let's hope that he can find a way to eat 180 or so innings and have an era of 4.50 or so. It is possible. Other low-k guys have managed to have good seasons, so why not hope for that rather than continuing to bash the same deal. I mean, it's been over a month now.

 

amen

[ThePuck]

What's this thread about again? Correia, right? We can't talk about him, or our opinions on him or his abilities (one ability in question, his ability to eat 180+ innings with us...of course, some expanded it and wondered what results would come of it if he did go 180+ innings with us)

 

So what should we talk about everyone?

 

Who is gonna win the Super Bowl?

[ashbury]

It's been established that he wasn't a super desirable signing. Making that point a month ago is not irrational, still banging on about it day after day like it will do any good is plain insanity.

 

I'm sure the stick-banging about Correia is inappropriate in the threads where the subject is why Nick Punto is an abysmal hitter. But when the thread title is "Mason: Correia expects to eat a bowl of di^H^H^H^H^H^H^H up innings for the Twins", what else do you really expect?

[snepp]

Focusing on him like he's the reason they're not going to win next year is, yes, totally irrational.

 

Not only did you knock that poor strawman down, you doused it in gasoline and lit it on fire.

[LoganJones]

I'm sure the stick-banging about Correia is inappropriate in the threads where the subject is why Nick Punto is an abysmal hitter. But when the thread title is "Mason: Correia expects to eat a bowl of di^H^H^H^H^H^H^H up innings for the Twins", what else do you really expect?

I expect that eventually there will be some people who are wiling to discuss other aspects of this guy than just his de facto status as pariah.

[FrodaddyG]

Not only did you knock that poor strawman down, you doused it in gasoline and lit it on fire.

[ashbury]

I expect that eventually there will be some people who are wiling to discuss other aspects of this guy than just his de facto status as pariah.

 

Kevin Correia has seen some tragedy in his life: Jerry Crasnick article . Losing a brother at a young age puts things in perspective.

[jokin]

 

It's been established that he wasn't a super desirable signing. Making that point a month ago is not irrational, still banging on about it day after day like it will do any good is plain insanity. They needed stability, their scouting department looked at the things they look at and valued the guy at 5 mil. He obviously had other offers and they felt that going 2 years wasn't crazy or a huge waste of cash. His signing did not preclude the signing of actual better players. They still have plenty of flexibility to add other people. They acquired Worley, they signed Pelfrey. They didn't sign Jackson, Marcum or Baker. These are all guys who various people had hoped they would. There is no chance they signing of Correia is the reason they didn't move on any of the other guys. Focusing on him like he's the reason they're not going to win next year is, yes, totally irrational.

 

Now I think I'm getting it. Putting the pieces together, LJ, who self-admittedly ignores everyone of those whose presentation of facts for the reasons this is a bad deal, still finds time to criticize the "irrationality" of their documented dissent from the The Twins Way.

 

LoganJones evidently is the Internet BoBo-Apologist for that unnamed "StatGuy" in the Twins basement that TR pledges that he always has run the numbers for him before they pull the trigger on each offer.

 

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing....and if you don't like Logan's version of The Truth, you're a stick-banging whack-job.

[ashbury]

I'm in agreement with the Twins Geek... the Correia bashing should stop now.

 

This coming from a Correia-apologist dating back almost a year now:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/archived-game-threads/635-spring-training-game-32-3-31-vs-pittsburgh.html#post6576

 

"Valencia double off the wall. Safe to say that Kevin Correia isn't exactly at the top of his game today, like he normally is."

 

I keed, I keed.