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White Sox Sign Hendriks; Twins Fans Wait (Patiently?)


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Let’s look at 2019 production rank on the 2019 team in the order you mentioned.

 

Gonzales – 9th among position players in WAR / 14th in OPS. 

Rosario – 11th in WAR / 9th in OPS

Adrianza – 13th in WAR / 13th in OPS

Cruz – 2nd in WAR / 1st in OPS

 

Gonzales / Rosario are exactly the type of players that should be moved if you want to get better. I sure hope we can come up with a better performing utility guy for what Gonzales and probably have enough left over to sign Clippard. No brainer.

 

Eddie Rosario is an average MLB player. Average players don’t hurt but they don’t make a true contender. Kirilloff / Larnach & Rooker are all capable of delivery a higher wRC+ or OPS than Rosario has produced since the 2nd half of 2018. I would definitely take Kirilloff or even Rooker + whatever we get with the $10M saved over Rosario. Kirilloff + La Stella + Clippard or equivalent is far more valuable than Rosario which is why he is not here.

 

Adrianza is a solid bench player but he can certainly be replaced and probably improved upon. Cruz is the only real difference maker. As I mentioned in the post that incensed you to the point of dropping the F bomb, we added Donaldson and Maeda since the 2019 team was so successful. With Donaldson and Maeda, the 2021 team certainly has the capacity to be as good or better. It’s also not over with Cruz. He could very well be here for 2021.

 

You can't just ignore the Donaldson amd Maeda add. Adrianza and Gonzales are easily replaced and Rosario has not been a difference maker since the 2nd half of 2018. Could he return to that form. Perhaps, but he looks incapable of adapting. His approach is horrid and he is never going to be great without better plate discipline. If invested reasonably well, the money saved of Gonzales and Rosario will only add to the ceiling provided by that core from 2019. If they do resign Cruz and spend the money saved, the 2021 has a higher ceiling than the 2019 team.

i get your argument, but if you were going to cut Rosario loose why didnt you use the money to sign Cruz right away? Why are they waiting around? From what i saw of Rooker and Kiriloff last year do you really think they are ready to supplant Cruz, and Rosario's production? Who is our starting left fielder now? Arraez? Dont make me laugh. Lewis isn't ready Larnach isn't ready. I would argue that Kiriloff and Rooker aren't either. To sign Simmons and to say that solves the utility problem is ridiculous. As it sits now we have some combo of Buxton, Kepler(when they arent hurt) and Cave and Wade in the outfield. Also if Cruz doesn't come back then who is the dh? Our rotation and bullpen is weak, we are too right handed now, and you are looking at two rookie starters in the lineup. (Dh and lf) This team is weaker no doubt. Dont fool yourself into thinking otherwise. It is a disaster waiting to happen if Donaldson's and Simmons' injury history lately rears their ugly heads.
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i get your argument, but if you were going to cut Rosario loose why didnt you use the money to sign Cruz right away? Why are they waiting around? From what i saw of Rooker and Kiriloff last year do you really think they are ready to supplant Cruz, and Rosario's production? Who is our starting left fielder now? Arraez? Dont make me laugh. Lewis isn't ready Larnach isn't ready. I would argue that Kiriloff and Rooker aren't either. To sign Simmons and to say that solves the utility problem is ridiculous. As it sits now we have some combo of Buxton, Kepler(when they arent hurt) and Cave and Wade in the outfield. Also if Cruz doesn't come back then who is the dh? Our rotation and bullpen is weak, we are too right handed now, and you are looking at two rookie starters in the lineup. (Dh and lf) This team is weaker no doubt. Dont fool yourself into thinking otherwise. It is a disaster waiting to happen if Donaldson's and Simmons' injury history lately rears their ugly heads.

 

Why do so many fans think any FO can just sign a guy if that’s what they want to do? Cruz is not signing until the DH for both leagues is completely dead. Constructing a roster is also a very fluid. I am sure they have been working multiple scenarios. The available budget and priorities change with every move or failure to sign someone they covet. Saying why don’t they just sign him is grossly simplistic take.

 

Rooker had a 933 OPS at AAA. He has performed better and at a higher level than any of our other prospects. He also performed in his brief stint at the ML level. Fans like shiny objects. If he had been a top pick posters here would be lobbying for him. He has earned his shot. How many people saw Arais getting here as soon as he did and performing as well as he has performed? Signing a LF when you have 3 top prospects needing an opportunity would be exceptionally poor roster management IMO. I have no idea what they will do specifically but it would make sense they are going to use LF to give multiple guys an opportunity.

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Why do so many fans think any FO can just sign a guy if that’s what they want to do? Cruz is not signing until the DH for both leagues is completely dead. Constructing a roster is also a very fluid. I am sure they have been working multiple scenarios. The available budget and priorities change with every move or failure to sign someone they covet. Saying why don’t they just sign him is grossly simplistic take.

 

Rooker had a 933 OPS at AAA. He has performed better and at a higher level than any of our other prospects. He also performed in his brief stint at the ML level. Fans like shiny objects. If he had been a top pick posters here would be lobbying for him. He has earned his shot. How many people saw Arais getting here as soon as he did and performing as well as he has performed? Signing a LF when you have 3 top prospects needing an opportunity would be exceptionally poor roster management IMO. I have no idea what they will do specifically but it would make sense they are going to use LF to give multiple guys an opportunity.

nobody will ever convince me it was a better decision to just cut Rosario loose unless you have a prospect like Joe Mauer knocking on the door...none of those dudes are THAT good
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nobody will ever convince me it was a better decision to just cut Rosario loose unless you have a prospect like Joe Mauer knocking on the door...none of those dudes are THAT good

Rosario isn’t that good, either. There’s a reason every team passed on him and he remains unsigned today.
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Time will tell...we dont need to debate it now...If it were me i wouldnt want people leaving here with a bad taste in their mouths like Rosario has, like Lynn had, and just like Berrios and Buxton are probably going to have. Im tired of seeing our home grown guys thtive elsewhere because we are too cheap to pay them. Just because you can evaluate a binch of obscure statistical numbers doesnt make anyone a pro scout. A lot of these guys are winners with a lot of heart. Rosario wouldnt be the first one we let go. It's the way we do it that bothers me. As fans we expect players to be loyal to our team, how can we expect that when our FO and owners treat the players like livestock or a bunch of robots. The owners have to share the blame for the sad state of Major League Baseball today.

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Time will tell...we dont need to debate it now...If it were me i wouldnt want people leaving here with a bad taste in their mouths like Rosario has, like Lynn had, and just like Berrios and Buxton are probably going to have. Im tired of seeing our home grown guys thtive elsewhere because we are too cheap to pay them. Just because you can evaluate a binch of obscure statistical numbers doesnt make anyone a pro scout. A lot of these guys are winners with a lot of heart. Rosario wouldnt be the first one we let go. It's the way we do it that bothers me. As fans we expect players to be loyal to our team, how can we expect that when our FO and owners treat the players like livestock or a bunch of robots. The owners have to share the blame for the sad state of Major League Baseball today.

Rosario has nearly 3000 MLB plate appearances, I don't believe we need more time to draw the conclusion that he's an adequate MLB starter but nothing more than that. He's also nearing or at the decline phase while the Twins have several very good corner outfielders in the high minors, any of which could outperform Rosario as soon as this season. The Twins also paid him $14m to play for them, why are they obligated to continue doing so? I've seen plenty of teams do a player wrong but waiving a guy instead of going to arbitration isn't one of them. They even placed Eddie on outright waivers so any team could claim him at his arbitration price tag.

 

And your second example is Lance Lynn... what did the Twins do to him? They gave him money when other teams wouldn't, that's what they did. The fact Lynn was mad because no other team offered him more money is not the Twins' fault, and certainly not an indicator of fault.

 

Berrios has no legit complaint as far as I'm aware. He's the one who routinely talks down a possible extension, which is his right. He has faith in himself and good for him, I hope it works out.

 

Buxton is the sole example that has any legitimacy and I hope the Twins find a way to repair that relationship, if it's still bad, which I don't know because I haven't heard anything about it in well over a year.

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As I am sure you know everything. I personally thought of you first when i heard Eddie is now going to take his 30 homers and 100 rbis a year to Cleveland. I am not going to hesitate to tell you "i told you so" when he mashes Twins pitching 19 times a year for the next 5 years. Meanwhile we get to watch some combination of Wade, Cave, Kiriloff, Rooker, or some as yet unknown entity scouted out by the AMAZING front office. I get everything everyone says about Rosario's faults. What I dont understand is why am i seemingly the only one that appreciated what he brought to this team. IMHO the way the Twins let him go was totally bush league. If you dont think he has a chip on his shoulder you are watching a different game. Everyone is going to get to find out the hard way. While we watch Cave kick the ball around and the rookies striggle to hit .200. Be careful what you wish for...Now you will get to see it. Up close and personally. 19 times a year. I am sure Rosario will save his best for us.

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Rosario is not a bad player. I think their are two aspects of his value that you are not acknowledging even though they have been mentioned several times. One, the equation the FO office uses is not Eddie Rosario vs Rooker or Kirilloff or whomever. It's Eddie Rosario vs his replacement and $10M to spend on another asset. For example, one of Rooker / Kirilloff / Larnach / Cave + Simmons >>>>> Rosario. It's surprising you are at odds with the FO if you don't accept this premise.

 

Two, Rosario has had one stretch where he was a great player. That wwas the last half of 2017 through the first half of 2018. The league adjusted and since then Rosario has produced 2.2 WAR an OPS of 760 and a wRC+ of 97. He has also been a poor defender.

 

These are hard facts not a manipulation of statistics. You are valuing him based on one stretch. The rest of his career he has been a very average player. The undisputable recent data suggests he has been very average for quite sometime now. Could he find the best version of himself again. Sure! However, he has had plenty of time to adapt and the evidence is quite convincing that he can't adapt or is unwilling to adapt. Regardless, based on his performance over the past 2 1/2 seasons, replacing him with a prospect and using the money for a player like Simmons has far greater value to team performance.

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As I am sure you know everything. I personally thought of you first when i heard Eddie is now going to take his 30 homers and 100 rbis a year to Cleveland. I am not going to hesitate to tell you "i told you so" when he mashes Twins pitching 19 times a year for the next 5 years. Meanwhile we get to watch some combination of Wade, Cave, Kiriloff, Rooker, or some as yet unknown entity scouted out by the AMAZING front office. I get everything everyone says about Rosario's faults. What I dont understand is why am i seemingly the only one that appreciated what he brought to this team. IMHO the way the Twins let him go was totally bush league. If you dont think he has a chip on his shoulder you are watching a different game. Everyone is going to get to find out the hard way. While we watch Cave kick the ball around and the rookies striggle to hit .200. Be careful what you wish for...Now you will get to see it. Up close and personally. 19 times a year. I am sure Rosario will save his best for us.

Since you seem to know everything about me, you surely know that I’m actually quite a fan of Rosario but I’m also smart enough to realize that paying for mediocrity at a position of excess is not something successful mid-market teams do on a regular basis, as it’s generally poor use of limited resources.

 

I have no desire to see Rosario leave the team but using Rooker/Kirilloff/etc in his position and utilizing that additional $7.5m to acquire another player at a position of need likely means the Twins are a better team than they are with Rosario for $8m.

 

PS. Eddie Rosario has all of one 30/100 season in his career so yeah, okay.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Since you seem to know everything about me, you surely know that I’m actually quite a fan of Rosario but I’m also smart enough to realize that paying for mediocrity at a position of excess is not something successful mid-market teams do on a regular basis, as it’s generally poor use of limited resources.

 

I have no desire to see Rosario leave the team but using Rooker/Kirilloff/etc in his position and utilizing that additional $7.5m to acquire another player at a position of need likely means the Twins are a better team than they are with Rosario for $8m.

PS. Eddie Rosario has all of one 30/100 season in his career so yeah, okay.

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