2021 Off-Season Thread

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 3/15/2021 at 10:50 PM, Mike Sixel said:

I hope you are right......they need at least 3 new starters, more like 5. That doesn't even count their depth issues.

 

Both sides of the ball or offensive line?  If you mean both sides I'm guessing we agree:

 

Guard

Tackle/Guard (Depending on Cleveland)

3 technique DT

Pass Rushing DE

Safety

 

Not in that order, but those seem like the holes to fill IMO.  I'm hoping some of the picks they made like Lynch and Dye are key roleplayers, but you're right that they lack depth at LB, Safety, OL, WR, and QB. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 3/15/2021 at 11:05 PM, TheLeviathan said:

Both sides of the ball or offensive line?  If you mean both sides I'm guessing we agree:

 

Guard

Tackle/Guard (Depending on Cleveland)

3 technique DT

Pass Rushing DE

Safety

 

Not in that order, but those seem like the holes to fill IMO.  I'm hoping some of the picks they made like Lynch and Dye are key roleplayers, but you're right that they lack depth at LB, Safety, OL, WR, and QB. 

 

Yup.......it will be a struggle. I'm not worried about backup QB. No backup they get is good enough to win with the rest of this roster......not without some kind of miracle fix to the DL. Even then......

[TheLeviathan]

  On 3/15/2021 at 11:12 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Yup.......it will be a struggle. I'm not worried about backup QB. No backup they get is good enough to win with the rest of this roster......not without some kind of miracle fix to the DL. Even then......

Agreed but I would prefer some kind of upside holding the clipboard.

[TheLeviathan]

So much for Lawson....off to the Jets.

[Vanimal46]

 

Umm... 2 nose tackles? Oh boy. Is Pierce slimming down to 3T?

[Mike Sixel]

  On 3/16/2021 at 3:06 AM, Vanimal46 said:

https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/1371654327790604289?s=21

 

Umm... 2 nose tackles? Oh boy. Is Pierce slimming down to 3T?

I'm not worried about position..... he's 100000x better than what they had. They also signed a LB....so, no excuses for the defense. He's a genius.... prove it.

[Vanimal46]

  On 3/16/2021 at 3:55 AM, Mike Sixel said:

I'm not worried about position..... he's 100000x better than what they had. They also signed a LB....so, no excuses for the defense. He's a genius.... prove it.

I am worried about position. They signed this guy to be their 3T and in the last 32 games he had 7 sacks and 19 QB pressures. So... yay? He’s better than Shamar Stephen.

[TheLeviathan]

I don't love that signing either but he is an upgrade at least. They have whiffed on all their targets.

[nicksaviking]

Looks like Tomlinson has played all over the DL. In 2018 he was listed as primarily a DE even.

 

I mean he started 16 games that year and had zero sacks, but he looks pretty versatile!

 

Going off his numbers, he looks like he might be a tier above Shemar Stephan and Jaleel Johnson, which still doesn't sound like starter material to me. But he's probably a better player than his statistics suggest?

[nicksaviking]

I'd have no clue how to research it, but I'd be very interested in an article or study that analyzed how teams with coaches who appeared to be on the hot seat did with free agents.

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 3/16/2021 at 2:08 PM, nicksaviking said:

Looks like Tomlinson has played all over the DL. In 2018 he was listed as primarily a DE even.

 

I mean he started 16 games that year and had zero sacks, but he looks pretty versatile!

 

Going off his numbers, he looks like he might be a tier above Shemar Stephan and Jaleel Johnson, which still doesn't sound like starter material to me. But he's probably a better player than his statistics suggest?

 

  On 3/16/2021 at 2:08 PM, nicksaviking said:

Looks like Tomlinson has played all over the DL. In 2018 he was listed as primarily a DE even.

 

I mean he started 16 games that year and had zero sacks, but he looks pretty versatile!

 

Going off his numbers, he looks like he might be a tier above Shemar Stephan and Jaleel Johnson, which still doesn't sound like starter material to me. But he's probably a better player than his statistics suggest?

 

His pressure rate is solid and he's very good against the run.  But he's a run defense player, not a pass rush player, which isn't all bad considering how bad we were against the run last year.

 

I'm just really sick of no pressure up the middle.  Maybe Tomlinson and Pierce will surprise on that front, but I'm not real happy with it at the outset.

[Danchat]

I don't know if Tomlinson is a good position is going to be a fit at 3 technique, but he is a beastly run stopper and a passable pass rusher. He played DE and NT in the Giants' 3-4 defense, so there will be a transition. He'll be a huge upgrade on run defense, and small upgrade as a pass rusher. $11M a year is fine for a guy of his talent, but with so little cap room, I would have preferred the money would be spent elsewhere. 

 

A big factor in this signing is that the 3 tech draft class is pretty terrible. There might not even be a single pass-rushing DT drafted in the first round, maybe Christian Barmore. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 3/16/2021 at 3:08 PM, Danchat said:

I don't know if Tomlinson is a good position is going to be a fit at 3 technique, but he is a beastly run stopper and a passable pass rusher. He played DE and NT in the Giants' 3-4 defense, so there will be a transition. He'll be a huge upgrade on run defense, and small upgrade as a pass rusher. $11M a year is fine for a guy of his talent, but with so little cap room, I would have preferred the money would be spent elsewhere. 

 

A big factor in this signing is that the 3 tech draft class is pretty terrible. There might not even be a single pass-rushing DT drafted in the first round, maybe Christian Barmore. 

 

DT is incredibly weak in this draft.  Whereas OL is actually pretty strong.

 

I hope that's the thinking.

[Mike Sixel]

I think you are going to be very happy with this signing..... and are undervaluing what he'll bring.

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 3/16/2021 at 3:50 PM, Mike Sixel said:

I think you are going to be very happy with this signing..... and are undervaluing what he'll bring.

 

Yeah, I could be for sure.  He's a good player and being stout up front against the run is crucial to how Zimmer plays defense.

 

I just hope he transitions to that new technique seamlessly and creates push.  I guess I just hoped for more with the cap space we had.

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 3/16/2021 at 4:15 PM, TheLeviathan said:

Yeah, I could be for sure.  He's a good player and being stout up front against the run is crucial to how Zimmer plays defense.

 

I just hope he transitions to that new technique seamlessly and creates push.  I guess I just hoped for more with the cap space we had.

 

My guess is a S is also signed (or brought back) and they signed a backup LB.....I think the money is going to D, and the draft to O (good luck Kirk)....

[nicksaviking]

 

  On 3/16/2021 at 3:08 PM, TheLeviathan said:

His pressure rate is solid and he's very good against the run.  But he's a run defense player, not a pass rush player, which isn't all bad considering how bad we were against the run last year.

 

I'm just really sick of no pressure up the middle.  Maybe Tomlinson and Pierce will surprise on that front, but I'm not real happy with it at the outset.

 

Yeah it's really hard to tell even with advanced stats. It could be an Anthony Barr situation where his true abilities weren't showcased because that wasn't what was asked of him. It's possible the scheme asked him to plug holes instead of pressuring the QB. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 3/16/2021 at 4:27 PM, nicksaviking said:

Yeah it's really hard to tell even with advanced stats. It could be an Anthony Barr situation where his true abilities weren't showcased because that wasn't what was asked of him. It's possible the scheme asked him to plug holes instead of pressuring the QB. 

 

My worry is that we were sold a lot of the same reasoning with Barr and with Stephon.  In the end we didn't utilize either player in the way they claimed they would to make the payoff worth it.

[gunnarthor]

We were so bad against the run last year so I'm happy with this signing. I've complained we've misused Barr for years now so ...

 

 

[Danchat]

Stephen released, no tender offered to Odenigbo, so he's a FA now. I'm surprised they didn't even give Ifeadi the smallest tender - he's rated out as an average DE and has had decent pressure rates. He's a lot better than the likes of Weatherly and Holmes in my eyes.

[nicksaviking]

Outside of a draft pick, is Wonnum getting the DE spot opposite Hunter (assuming Hunter is still here......)? I can't see anyway to justify giving Holmes that many reps again.

 

And Weatherly is just for depth right? I mean they learned their lesson about former DL who were just depth players, who left in free agency to start for another team, were terrible for that other team and then re-signed with the Vikings right? Weatherly was worse for Carolina than Shamar Stephen was for Seattle.

[nicksaviking]

 

I mean of course they would.

 

I don't specifically have a problem with Alexander himself, but geez, can this team just let go? Needing this familiarity, regardless of the talent level, just stinks of desperation. Please, just get new blood. Players, coaches and front office.

[Vanimal46]

It’s easier to become a nuclear physicist than it is to master the Zimmer scheme. It’s so exotic that simpletons like us can’t imagine the possibilities.

[Danchat]

And here's the second big splash of free agency:

 

 

I'm still forming my opinion on this one, but let's just say I'm not ecstatic paying a CB this much money coming off a rough year... and it'll be his 11th year in the NFL.

[Mike Sixel]

10 million for a guy that was bad last year.... hope they are right.

 

Good luck Kirk....

[Danchat]

It's actually $8M with $2M in incentives ($1M with 95% playing time in increments, $1M if he gets All-Pro). So it's not as bad as I thought. I'm just not confident Zimmer can fix a CB after how many CBs we've bungled. He better improve like Newman did here.

[gunnarthor]

I'm a little surprised. I thought the young guys really improved as the season wore on. Let them develop.

[nicksaviking]

That's like the rest of their cap space, what is going on here? Is Peterson still better than Gladney and Dantzler? Those are two of the three returning defensive starters that I was actually looking forward to seeing again next year.

 

And restructuring Thielan to make it happen? You've got to be kidding me. Stop kicking the can on veteran salaries. There's next to no chance that paying a 32 or 33-year old WR will actually look like a good idea in a year or two.

 

I'm very disappointed. No one is hiding the fact that they are sacrificing the future with longshot moves to try to save their jobs anymore. The Wilfs need to put an end to this.

[LewFordLives]

It seems odd that they would spend limited resources on a middling CB when they have such a big hole at safety.

[Vanimal46]

  On 3/18/2021 at 2:53 PM, LewFordLives said:

It seems odd that they would spend limited resources on a middling CB when they have such a big hole at safety.

And 2 huge holes on the OL. All signs indicate they are going OL at 14 overall, but that’s not enough. It will be the definition of insanity if we go another season without fully addressing that position group.