2021 Off-Season Thread

[nicksaviking]

 

I love the way they work that offense there.  If he's still available in a year it'd be a perfect hire.

 

Just throwing it out there, but Zimmer seems to have always gotten a vote of confidence after the team's poor seasons, but not this one. Kubiak is gone, the DB coach is gone. Zim's specialty defense stinks and the offense while good, is not meeting it's potential. 

 

If hypothetically the Vikings wanted Bienemy, but retaining Zimmer was their 2nd choice, this situation we have now is still how it would look until at least after the Super Bowl.

 

Conspiracy theory stuff for sure, just thought I'd share the crazy thought that just popped into my head.

[Mike Sixel]

PFF MIN Vikings

@PFF_Vikings

Vikings team pass block grade and rank since 2014:

2014: 72.4 (23rd)
2015: 67.9 (28th)
2016: 64.7 (30th)
2017: 71.9 (17th)
2018: 63.6 (27th)
2019: 63.0 (27th)
2020: 55.5 (29th)

 

Seriously. If I was the owner, I'd fire the FO and coaches at this point.....and people blame Cousins....

[nicksaviking]

 

PFF MIN Vikings

@PFF_Vikings

Vikings team pass block grade and rank since 2014:

2014: 72.4 (23rd)
2015: 67.9 (28th)
2016: 64.7 (30th)
2017: 71.9 (17th)
2018: 63.6 (27th)
2019: 63.0 (27th)
2020: 55.5 (29th)

 

Seriously. If I was the owner, I'd fire the FO and coaches at this point.....and people blame Cousins....

 

Yeah, and I bet prior to that year, the Vikings were a top ten pass blocking team more years than they were not since the team was formed. This franchise had Pro Bowlers and HOFers on pretty much every roster since the franchise formed. 

 

Haven't even had a Pro Bowl O Lineman since 2012. And most years, with all the drop outs, the Pro Bowl is pretty easy to get in to.

 

Edit: I just looked it up, the team either had a Pro Bowler or future HOFer on the O Line in every season but six until Spielman took over. It would be four seasons if Matt Birk were to go into the HOF.

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

PFF MIN Vikings

@PFF_Vikings

Vikings team pass block grade and rank since 2014:

2014: 72.4 (23rd)
2015: 67.9 (28th)
2016: 64.7 (30th)
2017: 71.9 (17th)
2018: 63.6 (27th)
2019: 63.0 (27th)
2020: 55.5 (29th)

 

Seriously. If I was the owner, I'd fire the FO and coaches at this point.....and people blame Cousins....

Honestly I'm surprised a bit by that number.  I'm not arguing it or even arguing that the line was good, but it didn't feel that bad.  Not compared to, say, what the Bengals were going through.  Among others.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Honestly I'm surprised a bit by that number.  I'm not arguing it or even arguing that the line was good, but it didn't feel that bad.  Not compared to, say, what the Bengals were going through.  Among others.

 

The exact numbers may be off, but not the direction.....or general ranking.....maybe they were only the 25th worst

[TheLeviathan]

 

The exact numbers may be off, but not the direction.....or general ranking.....maybe they were only the 25th worst

 

Heh.  I would've put them more in the middle of the pack.  Maybe my perception is off, but I certainly thought they were better protecting as a group this year than the last few years.  Dozier stunk and O'Neill took a small step back, but the others were all improved by a decent margin.

 

[Vanimal46]

Normally I could care less about podcast interviews with current athletes because they’re nothing but a cliche factory. However, Kyle Rudolph was on Unrestriced, a new podcast that Ben Leber started. And it was anything but cliche. He’s been self aware for a while about his role on the team vs. his contract. He’s at a crossroads because he truly wants to be a significant contributor on the Vikings’ first Super Bowl title, but the Vikings want him to be more of a blocking TE. If he were 34 he would cut his salary down to 2 million and be a hybrid mentor/player. But he’s only 31 and thinks he has another 2-3 good years back in his old role of primary receiver.

 

At the end of the day I think he’ll be gone, and you can kind of tell he knows it. Maybe there will be a reunion when he’s in the Jason Witten stage of his career.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Normally I could care less about podcast interviews with current athletes because they’re nothing but a cliche factory. However, Kyle Rudolph was on Unrestriced, a new podcast that Ben Leber started. And it was anything but cliche. He’s been self aware for a while about his role on the team vs. his contract. He’s at a crossroads because he truly wants to be a significant contributor on the Vikings’ first Super Bowl title, but the Vikings want him to be more of a blocking TE. If he were 34 he would cut his salary down to 2 million and be a hybrid mentor/player. But he’s only 31 and thinks he has another 2-3 good years back in his old role of primary receiver.

At the end of the day I think he’ll be gone, and you can kind of tell he knows it. Maybe there will be a reunion when he’s in the Jason Witten stage of his career.

 

Just a player admitting the coaches are not playing to his strengths......

[howeda7]

 

The QB market is going to be fascinating this offseason. We’re seeing the end of an era with Brees and Rivers retiring. Big Ben shouldn’t be far behind... He’s cooked like 2016-2018 Phil Hughes. It looks like McVay is getting tired of Goff, Shanahan is tired of Jimmy G, Denver hasn’t had a decent QB in a decade. Not to mention the possibility Deshaun Watson is traded.

From my eye there’s more available QB opportunity than QB talent available.

It might seem like a decade since Denver had a QB, but a decade ago they had Tim Tebow. Manning only retired 5 years ago.

[Vanimal46]

It might seem like a decade since Denver had a QB, but a decade ago they had Tim Tebow. Manning only retired 5 years ago.

Yeah I forgot about Peyton’s 50 TD year. NFL fans like to joke that Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were the worst QBs to win a Super Bowl. But 2015 Peyton Manning should get more recognition... He was cooked to a crisp that year.

[howeda7]

 

Yeah I forgot about Peyton’s 50 TD year. NFL fans like to joke that Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were the worst QBs to win a Super Bowl. But 2015 Peyton Manning should get more recognition... He was cooked to a crisp that year.

He could still make a play when needed. Not so much in the Super Bowl, but to beat Brady/Ben in the play-offs.

[Vanimal46]

 

I’m looking forward to facing Goff twice a year. He’s gonna be exposed big time in Detroit.

[nicksaviking]

 

I’m looking forward to facing Goff twice a year. He’s gonna be exposed big time in Detroit.

 

If Detroit was smart, they'll solely look at the Stafford trade as a means to acquire all those draft picks, and Goff's chance of being the starter rests solely on his ability to out perform whatever rookie they draft or veteran they bring in. His salary and his status as a starter should in ho way be linked.

 

Good thing Detroit is anything but smart! 

[nicksaviking]

But while Goff seems like a pretty big dope, Stafford always seemed like he's been overlooked. Long term, wow, the Rams really aren't going to be able to build up their team, but now that Stafford is for the first time in his career in an forward thinking and inventive system, with multiple offensive weapons and a great defense, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in MVP talks next year.

[TheLeviathan]

I expect that Goff is a placeholder for them that they cut next year when the dead cap is only 15M.

 

So I bet they take a QB at 7, start Goff, and then cut ties after 2021.  Then they have four first round picks the next two years to build around that rookie.

[Mike Sixel]

Great trade for Detroit. Great trade.

[Vanimal46]

Pretty crazy that McVay will now go 7 years in a row without a 1st round pick. His last one was Goff.

 

If Stafford brings back two 1s (most likely in the 20-30 range) and a 3 plus a bad contract, what is Watson worth? Four 1s? And I want Spielman to call the 49ers every day to get a similar package for Kirk ASAP.

[nicksaviking]

Pretty crazy that McVay will now go 7 years in a row without a 1st round pick. His last one was Goff.

If Stafford brings back two 1s (most likely in the 20-30 range) and a 3 plus a bad contract, what is Watson worth? Four 1s? And I want Spielman to call the 49ers every day to get a similar package for Kirk ASAP.

I’m all for moving Cousins, but I think half of the value Detroit got was for taking Goff and his negative value. I assume in this scenario the Vikings take back Garoppolo in addition to the picks?

[Vanimal46]

I’m all for moving Cousins, but I think half of the value Detroit got was for taking Goff and his negative value. I assume in this scenario the Vikings take back Garoppolo in addition to the picks?

Correct. I see that as a comparable trade to Stafford. Would that be enough to get out of Kirk’s guaranteed $45 million in 2022? Jimmy G could be cut with zero issues after 2021.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-garoppolo/3001/

[Danchat]

 

Correct. I see that as a comparable trade to Stafford. Would that be enough to get out of Kirk’s guaranteed $45 million in 2022? Jimmy G could be cut with zero issues after 2021.

https://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-garoppolo/3001/

They can cut Jimmy now and only lose $2.8M. Rumor has it that San Fran is trying to trade him but finding no takers, so he might be getting cut. I think the Patriots might go after him once he hits the FA market, as they were close to moving on from Brady before ultimately trading Jimmy instead.

[Vanimal46]

They can cut Jimmy now and only lose $2.8M. Rumor has it that San Fran is trying to trade him but finding no takers, so he might be getting cut. I think the Patriots might go after him once he hits the FA market, as they were close to moving on from Brady before ultimately trading Jimmy instead.

That would be a reunion I’d be interested in seeing. You’re correct, it wouldn’t be hard for San Fran to move on from Jimmy G now. He’s a meh QB but still worthwhile to hang onto in the meantime until they address it via trade or the draft.

 

Also, in an alternate universe where a trade between MN and SF happens, I expect us to keep Jimmy G around through 2021 as the bridge QB.

[DocBauer]

While I remain a rabid Vikings fan, I will fully admit I've been a "bad" fan in 2020...and disappeared from these conversations a couple months ago...because of disappointment, frustration, and a lack of Vikings games in the Omaha market. I watched parts of the few games available, watched victories on You Tube replays, and still read all that I could from various websites. Found myself cringing on some websites when names and positions were wrong, but still read because at least opinions came from those who saw more games than I was privy to. Including the fact that the You Tube replays don't, obviously, show the whole game.

 

And I appreciate all the comments I've read here and liked a bunch of them. But rather than quote or copy and paste, I'm going to just attempt to "tackle" different aspects of 2020 and moving forward as well as the discussions posted here.

 

The #1 thing I want to address is the elephant in the room, Cousins. His contract is a bit nuts! I get it. Brezinski has pulled rabbits out of his hat over and over again and done a tremendous job of doing so. But like the poor magician in Frosty the Snowman, that rabbit magic disappears at some point. But the bitch is the same as its always been; the QB gets more blame than be should, and more accolades than be should. YES, ABSOLUTELY, there are amazing and transcendental QB such as Montana and Brady and others! I watched Tarkenton and Kramer as a Vikings fan. I saw in just a few seasons what Cullpepper and Moon did, along with a plethora of QB for other teams in my 50+ years. Just as a Vikings fan, I've seen Wilson and Johnson have amazing years, and one win a Super Bowl with another team and wonder "why not us"? I've even seen former hated rival Favre lead the Vikes for ONE YEAR that SHOULD have been a ride to the SB but....just going to go through all that "what if" crap.

 

But numbers don't lie. At least not completely. Despite lousy to questionable OL play, Diggs and Thielen put up huge numbers and made the Pro-Bowl, FWIW. Rudolph was still productive. Jefferson came in as ROOKIE and broke records. And Mannion was throwing him the ball. Oh no, wait, no it wasn't, it was still Cousins!

 

Is Cousins overpaid? Yes. But so is every starting QB the last few years not on a rookie contract. Sorry, but they are ALL over-paid because it's still a team game. His career numbers are quality. Playing in Washington and under the mjs-direction of Snyder, he was still solid. His solid play brought him to the Vikings. Again, look at his overall numbers and the numbers of his receivers since he's been here. Now factor 2 or 3 different OF coorindators. Then factor something we all know to be true, his OL has been marginal at best.

 

Cousins is not the problem, and I am no fanatic or apologist for him. The problem is a decent line and a system that has at least some consistency.

 

IF the team wants to trade him, or work out a further extension for cap space, I've read reports that I don't fully understand regarding "vacant" years, IIRC. I would interpret that as zero $ extension or some sort of extended future payment.

 

Regardless, look at production and tell me he is the problem?

[DocBauer]

What went right in 2020? And I mean, besides Jefferson.

 

1] Cleveland showed he could actually play. Now, is he a G or a T? Draft or FA

Addition, wouldn't you think he should be on the left side no matter what considering his past experience and skills?

 

2] Despite the Hill experiment going downhill and all the negative plays and question marks about Hughes being a potential washout...which we all hope doesn't happen...there was a TON of opportunity for a group of CB to learn and grow. Do we see results next year with maybe a nice mid round selection to a# to the mix?

 

3] Did we see so much growth with Wilson to realize that Barr is either not the answer or has been under-utilized? Honestly at this point, I'd keep Wilson.

[nicksaviking]

I agree that Cousins isn't the problem, but I don't think he's a Super Bowl winning QB unless he has an elite team around him. If I had to point to one specific thing that I think will prevent him from being that guy, it's that he's just not very good at managing a 2 minute offense. The best QBs in the league can march the team down the field 80 yards with less than a minute left, but Cousins would need a Hail Mary to do it. The coaching isn't good in this area either and does him on favors, but Cousins isn't quick enough to get to the the line, read the defense and hike the ball. His reads take waaaaaaay too long. Rogers, Brady, Wilson, they get the next play off so much quicker. I'd guess Mahomes does too, but he never plays from behind.

 

He also isn't good enough or confident enough to make those tight window throws down the field on the sidelines to stop the clock. If they want to go sideline, it's always a quick out that only gets them a few meaningless yards, or else it's something over the middle where the defense is giving them free reign to run down the clock. 

 

By not being able to do these things, I don't think he's a guy who can put the team on his back and carry them to a championship. So while he's fine and he's probably not over paid in the QB hierarchy, my only wish for this team is to win it all, so I'd prefer they keep trying to find a QB who is undoubtedly elite, even if the one we have isn't far from the cut.

[DocBauer]

For whatever reason I've read recently that there are expectations for the NFL CAP to be $195-200M. If true, it means they are maintaining pretty much status quo. Still brings up a Barr situation. Don't want to diss on the guy, but tell me what he brings exactly for his $?

 

Re-work or let go.

 

Pray to NFL gods Spielman will trust in his scouts and coaches and pick a couple OL in the 3-5 round who can play. He and they seem to do a good job with early and late rounds. Draft the best DL you can at 14, and then focus on OL,DL, S, maybe another WR in the mid or late rounds.

[Mike Sixel]

Pretty sure we just witnessed the importance of OL and DL play.....

[nicksaviking]

 

Pretty sure we just witnessed the importance of OL and DL play.....

 

Then the Vikings must be making progress. They kicked Mike Remmers to the curb a year ago!

[Vanimal46]

Maybe teams around the league will realize one day that Mike Remmers isn’t a NFL caliber lineman. Even as a backup. We learned that lesson 3 years ago.

 

Overall, pretty boring Super Bowl. If I was watching that game by myself, I would have turned it off before halftime.

[Vanimal46]

The Vikes also announced the safe, predictable hire of Klint Kubiak for OC. Thanks to his dad dragging his feet with retirement so the Vikings missed out of the first wave of coach hirings.

[nicksaviking]

 

The Vikes also announced the safe, predictable hire of Klint Kubiak for OC. Thanks to his dad dragging his feet with retirement so the Vikings missed out of the first wave of coach hirings.

 

I bet this is Zimmer's last year here. They'll hire a new young hotshot OC as head coach for 2022.

 

His name will be Klint Kubiak.

 

Also, why did his parents spell Clint with a K? And what is his middle name. I really only want to know that answer if it begins with any of the other 25 letters of the alphabet.