2021 Off-Season Thread

[Mike Sixel]

Picking a returner in round 4? Uhhhh.

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah....what I read on the RB is not good for our scheme. Ridiculous testing numbers and high character though.

[TheLeviathan]

The Vikes are prioritizing speed and athletes over needs today. Cant say I disagree with that tactic

[TheLeviathan]

Tight-End/Punter is a new one, but my god can the guy bomb kicks.

 

He's probably a future nothing, but what a crazy skill set.

[DocBauer]

I think Spielman and the Vikings had a very good draft last season. I think they may have done just as well, if not better, here with fewer picks.

 

First kudos to Spielman for making a smart gamble to trade down in round 1. Kudos also for not getting "cute" and trading up and down for the sake of doing so. The team needed talented bodies and he knew, and announced, that there was a "sweet spot" of player depth in the 3rd and 4th rounds and kept the Vikings there. I DO think the trade down shouldn't have included the 4th round pick, OR, should have come with a bonus 6th rounder, but I'm not going to quibble.

 

Being an expert at being an amateur GM, I would have done a few things differently, but I just can't argue with these results.

 

BREAKDOWN:

 

#1] Darrisaw is primed to be a STUD LT for years. He has everything you want and need, despite being a rookie who will still need to develop. Cleveland should now play LG, where he SHOULD HAVE BEEN last year.

 

#2] How good could Mond be? I don't know. The jury is out. And it will be out for a couple of years. He is talented, experienced, and has improved his game/numbers every year. If he never develops in to a quality stud starting QB, he is ALREADY the best backup option we've had in years. And there IS potential there.

 

#3] I confess I knew ZERO about Surratt, despite by normal pre-draft routine, until this pick. And then I dug and read and watched and was reminded how smarter the professionals are then me. He is a 2yr LB convert who displays speed, athleticism, pop and power and instincts combined with PRODUCTION. Everything says he is only beginning to tap in to his potential. And he gets at least a year to further his development. I have become a quick convert of "who" to "wow".

 

#4] Davis, I hope, will be 100% healthy and ready to go. He should start at RG day 1 unless something holds him back. Guy is a STUD and probably would have been a 2nd round pick coming off 2019.

 

#5] Jones and Robinson are EXACTLY what the Vikings are looking for at DE. They are both long, athletic and have decent speed/quickness to be developed over the next year or two, along with Wonnum and maybe a healthy Willekes, not a bad athlete at all but who may need a practice squad year after missing last season.

 

#5] The Vikingsm I hoped, would draft a reserve RB with speed and ST ability, they did that with Kene Nwangu from Iowa State. Not sure this would be my guy or the round, but productive as a reserve RB with a nice build and TREMENDOUS speed and crazy KO return numbers. He's replacing a decent #3 RB of similar frame, but nowhere close to the same speed, who was also a "time share" RB in college. It's hard to find this kind of speed and potential on the FA market. We might have drafted him a round too early. But I'm not going to complain.

 

#6] This draft class was filled with solid safety options, though nobody really special. While I would have liked a "proven" safety from that group of prospects, Spielman, the scouts, and Zimmer saw Bynum as better than the other options. His ability to play CB, his intelligence and experience and Zimmer's perspective? I'm giving this one to the staff.

 

#7] WR Smith-marquette, this is the one pick where I think the Vikings got "too cute" with a pick. Kid has great speed and quickness. Despite playing in a deliberate and run heavy offense, he was a dynamic threat. Being a Husker fan, I've seen, unfortunately, what he can do on the field when given a chance. His production numbers don't suck. He is an ATHLETE with quickness and speed. He has potential with good coaching in an NFL offense to grow. They liked what they saw on film last year scouting Stanley. I just woukd have gone a different direction. Hopefully I will be proven wrong.

 

#8] When the Vikings drafted Conklin a couple years ago I thought they had a really nice developmental project. When I saw glimpses in the 2019 preseason I knew it was true. Really disappointed he wasn't used that year. But they FINALLY began to use him in 2020. And they OBVIOUSLY like small school Dillon. And if you've seen his limited action you can see why.

 

The Vikings have a history through various staffs and FO, of finding and developing quality TE. This Davidson kid in the 5th round is an absolute flier who has no business being on a 2021 roster. But this kid is also 6' 7" and runs a 4.6 40 with great hands and is a former basketball player. He DOMINATED division 2 with his ability and over 20 yards per catch as a TE.

 

Tell me another 5th round or later TE you'd like to see on the PS to get quality coaching and bulk up about 10lbs while learning to run routes better and sink your hips better to block? Whew! A lot to ask! But I've seen the numbers and watched the tape and this COULD be a steal with some work.

 

Sorry, I LOVE the TE position and always have. But in the modern day NFL, how do you find stud TE unless you look for them and develop them?

 

#9] Despite this draft being a "down" year, reportedly for DT, did the Vikings maybe get the steal of the draft in Jaylen Layman? OK, maybe he's not quite as tall or long as you'd like, but his production and ability and projection had him as at least a 2nd rounder if he came out last year. But he opted out for 2020 and then had an overweight and poor pro day prior to this draft. So he slides to the 6th round despite his talent and previous production and prospectus?

 

This could be the best pick the Vikings made. With a year to learn and get himself in shape, much less developing under Patterson, we COULD have a 3 technique DT we need, though he has to fight Lynch and Watts.

 

Other than drafting a backup RB/ST and similar WR too high, maybe, how can you not love the potential of this draft? Spielan pretty much hit every mark.

[DocBauer]

Tight-End/Punter is a new one, but my god can the guy

 

He's probably a future nothing, but what a crazy skill set.

Haven't seen any video as to his punting. Nice to know be can. Vikes don't suck at TE with their top two. They obviously like Dillon after 2yrs of development. I like what I've seen too. And this kid is in no way ready to play NFL football from 2 levels down and missing last season entirely. But MAN he looks like a kid you want to develop for a year!

[Mike Sixel]

Apparently the Vikings tried to trade up for Fields before the Bears did....interesting....

[TheLeviathan]

So the two biggest issues on this roster right now are doubts about the kicking game and pass rush correct?

 

I actually like where the line is at for the first time in a long time.  Or at least I have reason to have optimism.

[Vanimal46]

So the two biggest issues on this roster right now are doubts about the kicking game and pass rush correct?

 

I actually like where the line is at for the first time in a long time. Or at least I have reason to have optimism.

I think so... As long as “continuity” doesn’t come into play again and Dozier finds his way to the starting lineup. I feel good about Davis and Darrisaw starting day 1 taking their lumps, so we gel together by December.

 

A veteran WR for depth, veteran Edge, and kicker is all that’s left to sign before week 1.

[Danchat]

I'd like to post my final thoughts on the draft class, based on my board and scouting reports. Time for some arbitrary draft grades!

 

LT Darrisaw - A+

Trading down and landing one of the best LTs in the class that is a great scheme fit is a best case scenario for the Vikings. Left tackles are hard to find, and they are expensive. He was my 11th best prospect in the whole class.

 

QB Mond - B

Finally, Spielman goes for a QB outside of the 1st or 7th round. I like the forward-thinking approach to this pick despite not addressing a need (for a starting position). I have confidence Mond will become one of the best backup QBs in the league in due time.

 

OLB Surratt - D

If this pick were to be the true replacement to Anthony Barr, I would be on board. However, Surratt is an old prospect who's still learning how to play linebacker, and he profiles as an Eric Wilson replacement. Having a strong nickel LB is a nice niche to fill, but you don't spend 3rd rounders on someone who might develop into that.

 

G Davis - A

Finally, I think Spielman has drafted a pure guard who will become a quality NFL starter. Unlike Samia, who was a blatant reach in the 4th round, Davis is a strong guard who moves well and has put some good tape. Injuries will be his primary obstacle to becoming a quality guard.

 

DE Jones II - B

I wanted the Vikings to move up for a DE, but I do like Jones II as a 3rd rounder. He's a decent athlete with decent numbers at Pitt, and another project for Andre Patterson. You would hope his floor is as a 3rd DE.

 

HB Nwangwu - F

I am not interested in spending 4th round picks on special teamers. Nwangwu is a superb athlete, but that's it. Kick returning is seldom a factor in football games these days, and he's even returned a punt. The Vikings rarely use our 3rd/4th RBs. We spent a 3rd on Mattison, and he mostly collects dust for a job. This is a waste of draft capital.

 

CB/S Camryn Bynum - C

This is a hard pick to evaluate Rick himself announced him as a safety. His Pro Day numbers suggest he's too slow to play CB, so he may end up as a slot CB or play safety. He's not a reach, but also not an exciting prospect when there were better safeties on the board.

 

DE Janarius Robinson - D

Yet another toolsy DE pick, Robinson was a mediocre player at Florida State. Sure, Hunter and Wonnum were raw and toolsy when they were drafted, but I have Robinson marked below them when they were initially drafted.

 

WR Ihmir Smith-Marsette - D+

I had 10 WRs ranked above him who were on my board, so I wasn't super happy about this one. ISM is fast and not undersized, and from what I've read, he's not a special teams-only player. He might be a one trick pony as a deep ball receiver... but that's not bad, since neither Beebe nor Bisi provide that skillset.

 

TE Zach Davidson - C

I didn't have Davidson as a draftable player, but I can get on board selecting a guy with a high ceiling with our penultimate pick. 4.62 speed at 6'6" 245 lbs is a nice combo, and he kicked butt at Division II. Being able to punt and long snap are nice as an emergency backup, but I'd be 100% focused on developing him to play TE. He probably doesn't pan out, but he will be special if he does.

 

DT Jaylen Twyman - B+

The Vikings needed to add competition for the 3T spot with James Lynch disappointing in practice, so they add Twyman. He's got the size of a 3 tech, but the speed of a nose tackle and the strength of one too. I don't know if his odd build can play in the NFL, but he dominated in 2019 before opting out. Unlike some of the earlier picks, I can see Twyman carving a role for himself as a DT coming out on passing downs, but could hold up against the ground game.

UDFAs - Landing K Riley Patterson, one of the top 3 kickers in the draft class, is a big win. I expect him to win the kicking job. Adding punter and long snapper competition is smart as well.

 

 

Final Grade: B+

The Vikings won me over by attacking the O-line. The round 1-3 picks were mostly good, which should buoy the final grade. Sure, they got cute with some of the Day 3 selections, but that means little since Day 3 picks rarely pan out in the first place. If prospect development goes well, the 2020 and 2021 draft classes should provide a strong foundation for this team.

[Mike Sixel]

I think so... As long as “continuity” doesn’t come into play again and Dozier finds his way to the starting lineup. I feel good about Davis and Darrisaw starting day 1 taking their lumps, so we gel together by December.

 

A veteran WR for depth, veteran Edge, and kicker is all that’s left to sign before week 1.

If Davis is healthy, and Dozier starts, fire the whole coaching staff.

[DocBauer]

I'd like to post my final thoughts on the draft class, based on my board and scouting reports.

 

Final Grade: B+

The Vikings won me over by attacking the O-line. The round 1-3 picks were mostly good, which should buoy the final grade. Sure, they got cute with some of the Day 3 selections, but that means little since Day 3 picks rarely pan out in the first place. If prospect development goes well, the 2020 and 2021 draft classes should provide a strong foundation for this team.

Hey Dan, love your analysis and agree with you just about everywhere. But think we are going to differs little bit here and there. Not saying either of us are right or wrong, time will tell, just saying we differ a bit on initial thoughts.

 

Surratt: I'm going to admit he wasn't a guy I knew about, or checked out, until AFTER his selection. He was a fast-riser who some saw as early as a potential 2nd rounder. Why? Athleticism and projectability. The game is so built these days on speed and that athletic potential that he has that Andre David kind of "potential". Only 2yrs at LB and real potential, I'm higher on him than you after watching tape and reading about him.

 

Jones/Robinson: Basically agree with your grades. I like Jones better because of what he's done. But FL State still gets athletes, though they haven't done much with them lately. No clue how good Robinson could be, potentially, but he's an awfully talented prospect to grab where they did to work with and develop. I think both these kids got the Patterson "seal of approval" for kids he wants to work with.

 

Bynum: Maybe I'm just an optimist, and safety depth looked deep and there were guys I really liked, but I'm going to trust Zimmer on this pick. I love an experienced, intelligent, team captain CB being selected to play safety. I can't help but feel this kid is a young Newman-like player Zim wants to transition to safety early. I'm encouraged.

 

**aside: I keep seeing Zimmer and his staff looking at the SAFETY portion of the board and just nodding to one another and nodding in agreement and picking Bynum over the other safeties on the board and making the pick.

 

ISM: I think they got "cute" here and may have made a mistake. Look, I think WR is one of the hardest positions to predict. I think history has born this out. Recent Vikings history supports this, not to mention the NFL at large. There were guys available here I liked better. Period. But there is no doubt this kid has quickness, speed and even some "jumps" to be developed after coming out of a conservative offense. But I've watched his play enough over the past couple of years to give him a solid "C" at this point. He has to develop his routes and route tree better to be anything special, much less good, but there is something to build on.

 

IF he was drafted only with ST ability in mind, it was a bad pick.

 

Nwangwu: Not sure I fully get this pick, but it's not an "F" for me. Every report had him picked a round later. Obviously the Vikings felt he could help and were worried he might not be available if they waited. As a ST player, not sure you could do much better, draft wise. I WANTED them to draft a speedy RB to work with as a ST'er to be a quality #3/4 RB who could bring something different to the offense when used. He produced as a reserve behind a quality starting RB. He produced as a KR on ST. He has a physical build and amazing speed. He has "dangerous" potential when used right and developed.

 

Sorry, no way can I can grade him an "F" based on potential and ability. He's at least a "C" for me on potential.

 

Just my thoughts.

[gunnarthor]

The more I read about Davis, the more I love that pick. I think the line should be pretty good and could be an asset. I'm still worried about the coaching philosophy on offense and how it might affect Cook in the long run but the pieces are there to be a top 5 offense.

 

The pass rush is a concern. Maybe some coaching changes and a healthy Barr fix things. I like the competition for the other end position but I'm not sure any of them are going to become the next Hunter or Griffin. We do seem better against the run, which was my biggest worry.

 

Special teams will, as always, cut out our hearts during the season in some magnificent way. 

[Mike Sixel]

It's amazing to me there aren't 32 humans that can be a successful NFL kicker given the population of the world.....

[nicksaviking]

If it's alright with the court, I'd like to hold onto a bit of excitement about Nwangwu.

 

He's kind of receiver-sized and shaped. Any chance the Vikings plan on converting a freak athlete, but underachieving back to a WR? Like the Chiefs did with Tyreek Hill?

 

[gunnarthor]

 

If it's alright with the court, I'd like to hold onto a bit of excitement about Nwangwu.

 

He's kind of receiver-sized and shaped. Any chance the Vikings plan on converting a freak athlete, but underachieving back to a WR? Like the Chiefs did with Tyreek Hill?

The offense already has some considerable weapons. The head coach seems to want to run a Big 10, 1950s-style, offense. This is the biggest question mark, to me, regarding the offense. If the new OC is actually allowed to throw the ball, play at a fast pace, put pressure on the opposing team instead of going ball-control in the first quarter, maybe your hopes are justified. But we have a lot of wait and see ahead of us. 

[nicksaviking]

 

The offense already has some considerable weapons. The head coach seems to want to run a Big 10, 1950s-style, offense. This is the biggest question mark, to me, regarding the offense. If the new OC is actually allowed to throw the ball, play at a fast pace, put pressure on the opposing team instead of going ball-control in the first quarter, maybe your hopes are justified. But we have a lot of wait and see ahead of us. 

 

Yeah, any hope I'd have for Nwangwu would solely be based on the unknown plans of Kubiak the Younger.

 

[DocBauer]

If it's alright with the court, I'd like to hold onto a bit of excitement about Nwangwu.

 

He's kind of receiver-sized and shaped. Any chance the Vikings plan on converting a freak athlete, but underachieving back to a WR? Like the Chiefs did with Tyreek Hill?

Forgetting the fact he was supposed to be picked a round later than he was, it seems the FO not only liked him but felt he might not be available when they selected next. All reports say speed, size, strength, etc. Mediocre pass blocking skills, but what else would you expect for most rookies? (Exactly the player I wanted a round later, FWIW). He was never used as a receiver at Iowa State, but being trusted as a return man, I'd like to think his hands are decent and he could learn to be an option.

 

But he was drafted as a dangerous KR and 3rd string RB who can EXPLODE if given a hole to run through. In other words, he's a more flash and dangerous version of Boone. Combined with the underrated Abdullah, isn't this at least interesting? But he is absolutely a RB.

[Vanimal46]

Danchat, whenever you see this and able to dissect, I’d love to learn what they discovered.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-investigating-the-steals-and-reaches-in-the-2021-nfl-draft

[Danchat]

 

Danchat, whenever you see this and able to dissect, I’d love to learn what they discovered.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-investigating-the-steals-and-reaches-in-the-2021-nfl-draft

Their main point:

 

"A reach is often a reach, but a steal is rarely a steal"

 

Examples like WR D.K. Metcalf are rare, usually when a prospect falls far, there is a good reason why. 

 

Top "Steals" from this year's class:

 

LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah

ED Azeez Ojulari

G Trey Smith

QB Justin Fields

DT Daviyon Nixon

 

Top "Reaches" from this year's class:

 

QB Trey Lance

L/G Alex Leatherwood

DE Payton Turner

DT Dayo Odeyingo

ED Malcolm Koonce

 

 

It's a very short article, and that's about it. I thought Darrisaw might make the Steals list, but I think PFF likes him too much and he wasn't that much of a steal.

[Vanimal46]

Their main point:

 

"A reach is often a reach, but a steal is rarely a steal"

 

Examples like WR D.K. Metcalf are rare, usually when a prospect falls far, there is a good reason why.

 

Top "Steals" from this year's class:

 

LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah

ED Azeez Ojulari

G Trey Smith

QB Justin Fields

DT Daviyon Nixon

 

Top "Reaches" from this year's class:

 

QB Trey Lance

L/G Alex Leatherwood

DE Payton Turner

DT Dayo Odeyingo

ED Malcolm Koonce

 

 

It's a very short article, and that's about it. I thought Darrisaw might make the Steals list, but I think PFF likes him too much and he wasn't that much of a steal.

Much appreciated Dan! Shoot, I thought it was a long analysis. Arif Hasan and others I respect pumped it up on Twitter.

[DocBauer]

So the Vikings should have enough $ to sign their draft choices and rookie FA and gain almost another $8M after June 1st the play with and their roster is short the 90 man limit. They are now linked to possible FA additions Ryan Kerrigan/DE and Dede Westbrook/WR. Reportedly, they have reached out to both. There have also been continued rumors regarding Everson Griffen having a potential return.

This is the NFL and the Vikings are in a re-tool and not a re-build mode. And despite talent on hand and a couple of seemingly excellent draft years back to back, there remains room to add and improve the roster.

My thoughts:

WR Dede Westbrook: It all comes down to his knee. Except for some splash as a rookie where Beebe looked like a downsized but interesting version of his father, I just haven't seen anything to make me believe he has a future. Frankly,  I've been disappointed and have wondered why he's still around. IMO, Johnson has far out played him. I don't know how to fully predict Johnson's value. It seems he's produced when used as a fill-in starter, but has done little as a 3rd WR. Is that on him, or how he's used in this offense and the play calling? But it seems to me he's done far more than Beebe. Despite watching the career of recent draftee ISM, and understanding his production and athleticism and production, I'm not certain his potential, especially as a rookie. I know we saw ZERO from Osborn as a rookie. There may be some potential there but he's on the fringe right now.

I'd grab Westbrook in a heartbeat if his knee checked out. All the more for being re-united with his previous coach.

DE Ryan Kerrigan: He's not the player he once was. But he seems to have some gas in the tank. And he absolutely has experience, something lacking at DE other than Hunter, and Weatherly to a degree. He might even surprise on a second chance situation with a defense and DL that seems to have the other 3 parts in place. And he probably comes relatively cheap.

My question is simply this; despite experience and tangible qualities, does he really improve the team and production vs what is on board? 

Weatherly is OK, never should have left, and is now trying to come "home". But he was a solid rotation player previously. Wonnum flashed at times, and he and Jones and Robinson are exactly the kind of young athletes the Vikings and Patterson love to work with and develop. Forgotten is 2020 draftee  Willekes who missed last season with injury and might have to settle for the PS, but despite lacking great length has decent speed, strength, a big motor, and still runs around 4.7 and can do back flips to prove his athletic ability and was a proven producer in college. 

Again, the NFL is about now. But with the talent on hand, thinking about NOW as well as tomorrow, does Kerrigan offer enough experience and production to earn even an easy to swallow contract vs letting loose and developing all the young talent on the roster?

Personally, I'm 100% on Westbrook if healthy.

I'm 50/50 on Kerrigan, much less the "I'm not sure he's stable" Griffen". 

[nicksaviking]

I'm not really interested in filling the #3 WR spot because I don't think Cousins will ever really look that way.  I'd be more interested in seeing the rookies they just drafted get those very few reps. I'm more than happy finding more talent to help on the DL though.

 

[Mike Sixel]

23 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm not really interested in filling the #3 WR spot because I don't think Cousins will ever really look that way.  I'd be more interested in seeing the rookies they just drafted get those very few reps. I'm more than happy finding more talent to help on the DL though.

 

This.

[Vanimal46]

Concur with @Mike Sixel and @nicksaviking about the 3rd WR. DeDe Westbrook’s fate here will look pretty similar to Tajae Sharpe. 
 

Veteran DE, potentially veteran OL to push one of Dozier/Samia/Udoh off roster, and kicker is what I’d spend the rest of the cap space on. 

[TheLeviathan]

If the contract is right I don't mind Westbrook.  Mostly because if Thielen gets hurt again, our depth is a serious problem behind the top two.  But of the available money, I much prefer it goes into the pass rush if possible.

[Vanimal46]

Melvin Ingram is still a free agent too. I think I would prefer him over Kerrigan to be honest. And he should be pretty cheap to sign now at this point. 

[Mike Sixel]

When do the fake games start? Not. Soon. Enough. Given this "baseball" team.

[Vanimal46]

What was your favorite Mike Hughes moment? He was traded to Kansas City. All it took was swapping KC’s 6th for MN’s 7th. 

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

What was your favorite Mike Hughes moment? He was traded to Kansas City. All it took was swapping KC’s 6th for MN’s 7th. 

The earlier of two 6th rounders....so, like a normal 5th given next year's draft. Not much in return, but whatever. They weren't keeping him.