J.J. Hardy

[jokin]

I think most people agree with this, at what point do you move on and stop bitching about it?

 

Maybe when the apologists stop the 20/20 hindsight apolgetics?

[CDog]

(Hardy publicly criticized the Twins medical staff for extending his injury woes- along with the hitting philosophies).

 

Just couldn't resist trying to sneak that lie past everyone? I find it hard to believe someone who claims to know so much missed article after article on pretty much every source possible where Hardy went out of his way to credit Vavra with turning around his career. If it was something that somehow got past you, googling "Hardy Vavra" will result in a whole mess of links for you.

[ThePuck]

Just couldn't resist trying to sneak that lie past everyone? I find it hard to believe someone who claims to know so much missed article after article on pretty much every source possible where Hardy went out of his way to credit Vavra with turning around his career. If it was something that somehow got past you, googling "Hardy Vavra" will result in a whole mess of links for you.

 

Ex-Brewer Hardy beginning to feel at home with Orioles

[Willihammer]

[CDog]

Ex-Brewer Hardy beginning to feel at home with Orioles

 

And the very next day (I think), Hardy went out of his way to go to the media and correct what he had meant. And as I said...go ahead and google "Hardy Vavra" for one article after another in every major place that covers the Twins where he was apologetic for what had come out being misconstrued.

 

You're above backing up the lying, I'm pretty sure.

[ThePuck]

And the very next day (I think), Hardy went out of his way to go to the media and correct what he had meant. And as I said...go ahead and google "Hardy Vavra" for one article after another in every major place that covers the Twins where he was apologetic for what had come out being misconstrued.

 

You're above backing up the lying, I'm pretty sure.

 

One wonders if, after making his comments, he felt bad and did the political thing. He didn't deny what he had said. Those quotes were accurate. He did later say Vavra helped him with his swing, no doubt, but he said what he said and that's where people are getting the idea that they messed up his approach. I'm not sure that means I'm backing up lying in so much as I'm saying it's possible Hardy did the politcal thing to cover what he had said.

 

I mean, why is one quote accurate, but the next one not or vice versa. Depends on which side of the argument one is on...which side one wants to believe. We don't know which side is true.

 

Now, the other side:

 

SARASOTA, FLA. -- After a long talk with Twins hitting coach Joe Vavra near the batting cage today, Orioles shortstop J.J. Hardy clarified his recent comments about the difference between the team’s hitting philosophies.

 

Hardy had said Rod Carew pulled him aside after his first round of batting practice with the Twins and told him to start using the whole field. He said the Orioles told him to go back to pulling the ball the way he did during his best years with the Brewers.

 

After hitting six home runs for the Twins in 2010, Hardy hit a career-high 30 homers last year for the Orioles.

“I was talking to Joe about it right now," Hardy said, "and I said, ‘Listen, I hope nothing’s ever come out where I said anything bad or come out like it’s bad.’ Because like we were talking about -- 2010 was a year we were trying to bounce back from 2009, where I had a terrible swing and we worked with a lot of mechanical stuff, and once we kind of knocked that out in 2010, I come here [to the Orioles], and I think I would have done something similar [in 2011] compared to last year if I was still in Minnesota."

 

He sounds a bit confused there, doncha think? He SEEMS to be back-pedaling and not doing a good job.

[Guest USAFChief]

I think most people agree with this, at what point do you move on and stop bitching about it?

 

I'll stop bitching about history when people stop trying to rewrite it.

[twinsnorth49]

Maybe when the apologists stop the 20/20 hindsight apolgetics?

 

You're referring to the one guy in this thread who even used that phrase?

[jokin]

And the very next day (I think), Hardy went out of his way to go to the media and correct what he had meant. And as I said...go ahead and google "Hardy Vavra" for one article after another in every major place that covers the Twins where he was apologetic for what had come out being misconstrued.

 

You're above backing up the lying, I'm pretty sure.

 

Incredible, that someone of your level of sophistication doesn't see the standard-operating-procedure, damage-control-CYA involved in this whole affair. You seriously don't think Hardy's agent was on the phone with him the second he came out with his initial comments?

[CDog]

I mean, why is one quote accurate, but the next one not or vice versa. Depends on which side of the argument one is on...which side one wants to believe. We don't know which side is true.

 

Because of when and how things happened, you can get a pretty good idea. FIRST a member of the media seeks out Hardy for an interview to do a story. That story comes out, and immediately Hardy then SEEKS OUT someone mentioned in the story AND SEEKS OUT media to go out of his way to clarify and correct how things came off in the original story. Do you suppose he did that because...I can't even think of a good reason unless it was because he felt so bad about giving the wrong impression the first time around.

[ThePuck]

Because of when and how things happened, you can get a pretty good idea. FIRST a member of the media seeks out Hardy for an interview to do a story. That story comes out, and immediately Hardy then SEEKS OUT someone mentioned in the story AND SEEKS OUT media to go out of his way to clarify and correct how things came off in the original story. Do you suppose he did that because...I can't even think of a good reason unless it was because he felt so bad about giving the wrong impression the first time around.

 

It was after meeting Vavra face to face when the two teams played each other.

 

You know, I'm not on either side of this argument, I'm just saying I understand both sides of it. Both sides have legitimate stuff to fall back on in their argument. I presented both right here. I don't think either side should say the other is blatantly lying. It's all up for interpretation.

[mnfanforlife]

I was ecstatic when we traded for him and royally ticked off when he was traded away. No hindsight for me. And Hardy was trade before Nishi signed. And it was Gardy who specifically said he wanted speed.

 

Hardy had an OPS over .800 in the 2nd half and had the best UZR/150 for starting shortstops.

 

Yeah, getting a power hitting, slick fielding shortstop for the train wreck that is Carlos Gomez was a savvy move...And an equally unsavvy move by dumping him for Hoey (whoey?)

[mnfanforlife]

What Hardy said about the Twins' hitting approach is dead accurate....David Ortiz was always being asked to drop singles into LF for the Twins. No doubt Vavra worked on Hardy's swing and probably helped JJ have a huge 2012. This was just a situation where JJ was candid (too candid) with a member of the media, and it got slightly out-of-hand.

[nokomismod]

One of the things that bugs with this PED era is you never are really sure when someone's numbers are legit. Ortiz leaves here, becomes a healthy and very productive player. Hardy goes from injury prone and 6 HR to being healthy and hitting 30 per year. My point is not that he started a new dietary approach, but I hate that I wonder if he did.

[one_eyed_jack]

I don't understand the compulsion to dwell on this move. I don't know whether it's some kind of an emotional attachment to JJ Hardy or an addiction to the feeling of self-satisfaction of being able to say "I told you so", but seriously, it's 2013. The contemporary relevance of moves made in 2010 ended a while ago. Ramos for Capps was a dumb move too, and also labeled as such by many people as soon as it was made. But there hasn't been anywhere near the amont incessant whining over that like there's been for the Hardy trade.

 

It's not like this move alone doomed the past 2 seasons. You know what you get if you take the 2011 and 2012 Twins and add JJ Hardy?

 

2 bad baseball teams. Hardy would have made them a little less crappy, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that we would have been playing meaningful baseball in September but for the decison to trade him.

 

Time to move on.

[twinsnorth49]

I don't understand the compulsion to dwell on this move. I don't know whether it's some kind of an emotional attachment to JJ Hardy or an addiction to the feeling of self-satisfaction of being able to say "I told you so",

 

That part, right there.....and then piling on.

 

But you'll be admonished for opening the dead dove as well. http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/1087.gif

[Guest USAFChief]

I don't understand the compulsion to dwell on this move. ... The contemporary relevance of moves made in 2010 ended a while ago.

 

The "contemporary relevance" lives on as "who will be playing SS for the Twins in 2013."

[Kwak]

One of the things that bugs with this PED era is you never are really sure when someone's numbers are legit. Ortiz leaves here, becomes a healthy and very productive player. Hardy goes from injury prone and 6 HR to being healthy and hitting 30 per year. My point is not that he started a new dietary approach, but I hate that I wonder if he did.

A filthy comment--you as much accused Hardy of using PEDs because he hit 30HRs and didn't get injured. Ortiz?, Fenway has The Wall in LF to turn routine flies into hits, and Manny Ramirez batting behind him that makes it really undesirable for a team to walk Ortiz. reading Hardy's comment in Feb '12 states the the Twins "point-out" when a player "rolls over" a pitch into a ground out. Somehow I suspect that Boston was more "restrained" in their comments. Recall that Ortiz was basically fired despite hitting 20 HRs.

[twinsnorth49]

The "contemporary relevance" lives on as "who will be playing SS for the Twins in 2013."

 

It would be him? Surely we would have flipped him for a player to be bitched about later any how.

[Boom Boom]

One of the things that bugs with this PED era is you never are really sure when someone's numbers are legit. Ortiz leaves here, becomes a healthy and very productive player. Hardy goes from injury prone and 6 HR to being healthy and hitting 30 per year. My point is not that he started a new dietary approach, but I hate that I wonder if he did.

 

 

Don't believe that guys only use PEDs after they've left the Twins. Papi may well have been on the juice before he left.

 

If Hardy was juicing in this era of testing he probably would have been caught.

[DelawareTwinsFan]

While we're at it, Bad Bill Smith trades, Bartlett, Garza and hard throwing minor leaguer for Delmon Young, Harris and centerfielder who I can't remember. Then Young to Tigers for Oliveros and some bad minor league pitcher. So, Bartlett, Garza, somebody for Oliveros an somebody. Bad, you betcha.