Mackey: Twins Likely Done Making Significant Moves this Year

[old nurse]

If it's anything like your "evidence" my flaws can rest easy.

 

I don't think mine is a controversial position at all. I'm not bad-mouthing Ryan's abilities or calling for his head. I'm not calling the offseason a failure. I'm merely suggesting that what Ryan said pre-offseason is not merely fodder for naive souls who wish to believe the best. Many die-hard Twins fans believed his words were a genuine attempt to communicate expectations. His feet should be held to that fire, whatever reason there may be for the failure to live up to them.

I believe I said your ideas have flaws, not controversy.

[TheLeviathan]

I believe I said your ideas have flaws, not controversy.

 

I fail to see how there is a flaw in that, it's using his words and comparing them to the results and finding plenty of room for criticism.

[old nurse]

I fail to see how there is a flaw in that, it's using his words and comparing them to the results and finding plenty of room for criticism.

 

Ryan failed to sign a significant healthy front line starter. I think most would agree on that. Where you start on something, what you think the situation is with available information you have, and what it turns out in the end is not always the same. Why the starting pitching free agent situation with the Twins came to be that way it went would have many factors. Ryan was hopeful at the start of the free agent period and expressed an optimistic statement. He made one statement in the middle of the process about not being able to give money away. There may be no simple answer that you are looking for as to what happened in between. Much more than just Ryan was involved. There never will be any proof as to the thought processes behind the decisions made as the discussions of the process and negotiations are kept internal.

One statement is viable to you that he made at the start of the process in regards to signing players. The statement that Ryan made "Sometimes you can't give money away" means absolutely nothing to you. Why would you make a statement like that? Is it a statement of frustration? Is it a bald face lie? It is not a black and white statement but it clearly should reflect something happened in the process of negotiations with players and agents. I could speculate that he offered someone like Guthrie, Blanton or McCarthy more money than they got elsewhere. I hope he wasn't talking about Feldman. After that statement in regards to not being able to give away money is when they went bargain shopping.

 

It is hard to have hope after the last two seasons. I guess I would rather have hope dashed once again than just being miserable from the start.

[glunn]

None of us have enough information to accurately evaluate Ryan's performance. We will never know about all of the offers that may (or may not) have been made. But the low payroll bothers me. If the Twins spend more later in the year, I will feel like they are being fairer to the fans in terms of their commitment to giving us a quality product.

[snepp]

None of us have enough information to accurately evaluate Ryan's performance. We will never know about all of the offers that may (or may not) have been made.

 

No, we'll never know for certain, but it's a pretty safe bet given the complete lack of rumors and reports surrounding the team concerning quality starting pitching, that they either didn't try very hard, or at all.

 

If a concerted effort had been there, chances are we would have heard something, anything.

[Highabove]

Media members such as Darrin Wolfson, have stated that the Twins have made very few Free Agent offers.

[Guest USAFChief]

Personally, I don't need to factor in all the speculation offered up as "plausible reasons" for Ryan's miserable failure of an offseason.

 

Results count. I'll judge by those.

[ThePuck]

Personally, I don't need to factor in all the speculation offered up as "plausible reasons" for Ryan's miserable failure of an offseason.

 

Results count. I'll judge by those.

 

There will always be excuse to defend the FOs lack of ability.

 

-If we have a season like 2010, no need to 'waste money' because we won 94 games and ran away with the division. Those guys are surely good enough to repeat, no need to worry about improving a good club. Injuries NEVER happen.

 

-If we have seasons like we've had the last two, well, no one wants to come here, so we can't give the money away. You can't pay good players to come here cause we're so bad.

 

-Before that, it was bad revenue from the Metrodome.

 

Wha will be the excuse when we finish with a winning record in 2-3 three years and it turns out we STILL don't go get quality FAs to help?

 

The defenders have their bases covered...just insert new excuse...

[old nurse]

Media members such as Darrin Wolfson, have stated that the Twins have made very few Free Agent offers.

 

There were very few quality free agents so therefore there would be only a few offers. Takes two to negotiate.

[nicksaviking]

Personally, I don't need to factor in all the speculation offered up as "plausible reasons" for Ryan's miserable failure of an offseason.

 

Results count. I'll judge by those.

 

Exactly. Because even if the Twins made better offers to free agents but were spurned (however unlikely) it's on Ryan and the front office to find out why and remedy the issues these free agents have with the organization.

[Rosterman]

Media members such as Darrin Wolfson, have stated that the Twins have made very few Free Agent offers.

 

 

You make an offer. Two years for $10 million. The Player goes "humm, I want a third year" "Or, how about $11.5 million" or he thinks "That's reasonable, more than anyone else has thrown at me at the moment, I can live with that" and, bingo. You make a decision on an offer, or wait for another one and hope you can come back to the previous one. Like buying a house. You blow the seller out of the market, or your agent comes back and says other parties are interested and about to make an offer (you do, the other agents quickly tell their people on the bubble to make an offer). You have a certain window to accept or reject.

 

I think we are seeing some guys who wanted a third year now having to revisit offers for two years or even one year (Saunders, Marcum, possibly). At some point, rather than 2 years at $15, they will start asking about one-year at $7-9 million. It will be interesting to see how this market ends up. Waiting too long can sometimes hurt as much as being the first (Baker, Feldman) out of the chute, although I think Baker and Feldman were both treated fairly.

 

You have one-shot to make your offer. You can's tell the player, "hey, would like to sign you for somewhere between $4 and $8 million. It's arbitration on a grander scale with more people in the mix.

[nicksaviking]

There were very few quality free agents so therefore there would be only a few offers. Takes two to negotiate.

 

There were nearly 2 dozen starting pitchers better than Kevin Correia and Mike Pelfrey the Twins could have made offers to.

[old nurse]

There will always be excuse to defend the FOs lack of ability.

 

-If we have a season like 2010, no need to 'waste money' because we won 94 games and ran away with the division. Those guys are surely good enough to repeat, no need to worry about improving a good club. Injuries NEVER happen.

 

-If we have seasons like we've had the last two, well, no one wants to come here, so we can't give the money away. You can't pay good players to come here cause we're so bad.

 

-Before that, it was bad revenue from the Metrodome.

 

Wha will be the excuse when we finish with a winning record in 2-3 three years and it turns out we STILL don't go get quality FAs to help?

 

The defenders have their bases covered...just insert new excuse...

 

What free agent pitcher was available after the 2010 season. You never answer. You wanted Brad Penny?

[ThePuck]

What free agent pitcher was available after the 2010 season. You never answer. You wanted Brad Penny?

 

Did I say 'in 2010', or did I say 'if we have a season like 2010.' It's just a scenario put out there.

 

Is 2010 the only time we've had where we won the division and did nothing to address deficiencies? No. I could have used most any of our division winning teams and made the same point. 2010 just happened to be the first time it happened at TF.

 

And don't think for a second I go out of my way to avoid answering your questions as if you've ever asked me something that stumped me or hurt my argument. Most of the time I just ignore you cause of the way you talk to people.

[johnnydakota]

So when the season is over will we see that we had a payroll of 70/73 million for 2013?

[johnnydakota]

Ryan should be congratulated for cutting the payroll by 30 million dollars. It only took him a year to do so.

by the end of 2013 payroll will be closer to 73 million , so he shaved 40 million from payrollin 2 years and another 20 million next year

[old nurse]

Did I say 'in 2010', or did I say 'if we have a season like 2010.' It's just a scenario put out there.

 

Is 2010 the only time we've had where we won the division and did nothing to address deficiencies? No. I could have used most any of our division winning teams and made the same point. 2010 just happened to be the first time it happened at TF.

 

And don't think for a second I go out of my way to avoid answering your questions as if you've ever asked me something that stumped me or hurt my argument. Most of the time I just ignore you cause of the way you talk to people.

Just a scenario. You threw out a scenario like 2010. In your scenario, when I questioned you about it the hypothesis you continue to avoid. I hold you to account for a statement and you don't like it. That is talking to people badly?

[ThePuck]

Just a scenario. You threw out a scenario like 2010. In your scenario, when I questioned you about it the hypothesis you continue to avoid. I hold you to account for a statement and you don't like it. That is talking to people badly?

 

Holy carp. How many times do I have to say I wasn't referring to how you were talking to ME in your response to my post where I gave the scenario? 4, maybe 5 more times? Do you have comprehension issues? Where did I say you were talking badly to me in that post? I was talking, in general, that you have quite a history in insulting people around here but you have issues when people do the same to you. I was not saying you did it to me in your response to my scenario post. Get it now. Is it clear?

 

I'm not avoiding anything. 2010 was just a scenario. A season where we won. Cause, you know, that's the only time decent pitchers would want to sign with a club. If you need to have names, how about Kuroda, Harang,...Westbrook.

 

So, now, why is it okay for you to insult people, but you call foul when someone insults you?

[twinsnorth49]

Holy carp. How many times do I have to say I wasn't referring to how you were talking to ME in your response to my post where I gave the scenario? 4, maybe 5 more times? Do you have comprehension issues? Where did I say you were talking badly to me in that post? I was talking, in general, that you have quite a history in insulting people around here but you have issues when people do the same to you. I was not saying you did it to me in your response to my scenario post. Get it now. Is it clear?

 

I'm not avoiding anything. 2010 was just a scenario. A season where we won. Cause, you know, that's the only time decent pitchers would want to sign with a club. If you need to have names, how about Kuroda, Harang,...Westbrook.

 

So, now, why is it okay for you to insult people, but you call foul when someone insults you?

 

Speaking of talking poorly to people....

[ThePuck]

Speaking of talking poorly to people....

 

Yeah, because of the way he went insulting me time and time again when I first started posting here regularly (and continues to do) and with the way he talks to others consistently, he reaps what he sews. And then he complains when people dare give him some of his own medicine. If you notice, I don't talk to anyone else that way.

[snepp]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5216/5426407405_66f4d8e2ff_z.jpg

 

 

Damned nurses and their sewing.

[ThePuck]

That was hilarious sneep!

[old nurse]

Holy carp. How many times do I have to say I wasn't referring to how you were talking to ME in your response to my post where I gave the scenario? 4, maybe 5 more times? Do you have comprehension issues? Where did I say you were talking badly to me in that post? I was talking, in general, that you have quite a history in insulting people around here but you have issues when people do the same to you. I was not saying you did it to me in your response to my scenario post. Get it now. Is it clear?

 

I'm not avoiding anything. 2010 was just a scenario. A season where we won. Cause, you know, that's the only time decent pitchers would want to sign with a club. If you need to have names, how about Kuroda, Harang,...Westbrook.

 

So, now, why is it okay for you to insult people, but you call foul when someone insults you?

 

The Twins or most any team can not compete for a pitcher the Yankees want, Harang had 2 poor years in San Diego, Westbrook was never going to leave the Cardinals, If you feel insulted that I question the plausiblity and the reality of what you post, so be it. That is far different than character assassinations.

[dmafret]

I like both Johnson and Marcum also. I hope we are still talking to other players.

[dmafret]

Correia is pretty shaky but Pelfrey, if healthy, could be a real good #3 starter.

[ThePuck]

Correia is pretty shaky but Pelfrey, if healthy, could be a real good #3 starter.

 

 

I see you have an SR-71 picture...seems to have been taken from the boom pit. I was stationed at the home of the SR-71, Beale AFB, on my first assignment. I won an incentive flight to watch an in-flight refueling of the SR-71. I laid in the boom pit when it was getting refueled.

 

It was awesome!

[jimbo92107]

Too many people seem to be missing the point of baseball. It's a game that allows you to apply pressure in endless ways, yet people strive to limit those ways with far too much hidebound tradition. It's a constant struggle between conformity and creativity. Every now and then we get a glimpse of the possibilities when we see guys like Bryce Harper and R.A. Dickey. These are guys that find ways to apply pressure to the opposition with their minds or with something unusual.

 

I love watching Sam Deduno's crazy fastball. I love watching Cole DeVries walk a tightrope with every batter, and even how Pedro Florimon struggles to find a successful approach to hitting. Every now and then you see it: Just before a pitch, the batter suddenly knows where it's going to be; an infielder takes a step to his left. They think they know what's about to happen. The drama of baseball lies in that twilight zone between pure guessing and knowing for sure. It's ballistic poker. Every player is looking for physical signs, tells, analyzing the game situation, and using that semi-knowledge to find an edge, to apply pressure. Watching that happen is absolutely glorious.

 

I don't care if the Twins sign some heavyweight outsiders or simply develop their team from within. Actually, that's not true; I'd rather see the young guys come up and figure out the game while I watch. It's the purest form of fandom - I'd rather see my team rise to greatness by drafting talented players and teaching them to win than by simply breaking out the owner's checkbook and buying a championship, like the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Rangers, etc. That's why I'd like to see the Twins bring back Nick Punto - not as a player, but as a coach at a minor league level where he can get players thinking about the many ways to apply pressure. That's where the real game is played, between the ears.