Not to add more doom and gloom

[denarded]

This is interesting and sort of concerning. Article snippet comes from the incomparable Jayson Stark of The Athletic (Which is must read site regardless of sport):

 

• Finally, this was a year in which the Twins had the best September record in their league (16-8) — and still got swept. If you don’t count teams that lost in the one-game wild-card game format, they’re only the fourth team in the 21st century to have the best record in their league from Sept. 1 on and still get swept in their first-round series. See if you notice a theme here.

2020 TWINS (16-8) — Swept by Astros (WCS)

2016 RED SOX (19-10) — Swept by Indians (ALDS)

2010 TWINS (18-12) — Swept by Yankees (ALDS)

2009 TWINS (21-12) — Swept by Yankees (ALDS)

 

Small sample size (21 years) but very stark facts.

[Number3]

Result...18 game playoff losing streak. I think getting swept is the only way to accomplish that. It must be the uniform because they were totally different teams on both sides.

[Danchat]

Momentum hasn’t seemed to be a factor in playoff success. Heck, the Yankees limped into the playoffs this year, and now they’re tearing it up. Weird.

[ToddlerHarmon]

You might look at this and think the Twins were injury free and rolling as a team those years.

 

But maybe they were fighting for their division lives, playing teams that had packed it in, and piling up injuries in the last weeks of the season. That sounds more familiar, doesn't it?

 

And it indicates that they may not have been the league's best, nor at their own best, when playoffs arrived. Which is beyond familiar, it's burned into our skulls

[IndianaTwin]

 

This is interesting and sort of concerning. Article snippet comes from the incomparable Jayson Stark of The Athletic (Which is must read site regardless of sport):

 

...

 

Small sample size (21 years) but very stark facts.

 

I see what you did there...

[denarded]

 

I see what you did there...

Thanks for catching. Not my best moment, but boy do I love reading Stark (and Posnanski)

[notoriousgod71]

But on the plus side, it's only been 18 years exactly since the Twins last won a postseason series.

[Number3]

I totally discount this year. Good year to get in some real game practice. 2021 is the unknown and not just for MLB. One thing 2020 has done is to marginalize sports at all levels. I am willing to bet that the Twins' players and staff are content to have this season over and get home to family and friends. The Yankees, Tampa, or Maybe Dodgers or Braves would have been lurking anyway.

[Dodecahedron]

MLB likes to finish up the season with divisional games to potentially have good September matchups.

 

I imagine all of you have noticed that the AL Central tends to have the worst teams in the AL.

[Number3]

Part of the doom part is that teams like Tampa, Oakland, and even those wascally Yankees keep coming up with players that no one ever heard of and remain very competitive. In the mean time the Twins seem to have number one picks that go no where or sign FAs that stay on the IL. That is why 2021 has to be a year of reckoning for this franchise. If a 2021 reload doesn't pan out, it will probably be another rebuild in 2022.

[USAFChief]

I totally discount this year. Good year to get in some real game practice. 2021 is the unknown and not just for MLB. One thing 2020 has done is to marginalize sports at all levels. I am willing to bet that the Twins' players and staff are content to have this season over and get home to family and friends. The Yankees, Tampa, or Maybe Dodgers or Braves would have been lurking anyway.

I would disagree with every word of this post.

 

But "(these good teams) would have been lurking anyway"??

 

Wow.

[theBOMisthebomb]

I totally discount this year. Good year to get in some real game practice. 2021 is the unknown and not just for MLB. One thing 2020 has done is to marginalize sports at all levels. I am willing to bet that the Twins' players and staff are content to have this season over and get home to family and friends. The Yankees, Tampa, or Maybe Dodgers or Braves would have been lurking anyway.

If what you saying is true for any prominent member of the Twins organization then I want my 2021 season ticket money refunded. If this organization isn't beyond packing it in at the sight of another team then why bother following this club?

[insagt1]

I'm not a Yankee fan...in fact I dislike them immensely...but I have to think MLB is praying for a Yankee-Dodger World Series. Can you imagine the TV ratings if the WS is between the A's and Marlins..or the Rays and Marlins....3 teams that sit at the bottom of attendance every year and have no fans or national interest outside of their own cities (if that) The NHL Finals featured two teams that generated very little interest outside the participating citys (Tampa and Dallas) NBA has LeBron, but does anyone care about the Miami Heat anymore? (or the NBA for that matter)

Baseball needs a marquee matchup and sadly the Yanks provide that.

Now...I will go wash my mouth out with soap and sit in the naughty chair.

[jkcarew]

But on the plus side, it's only been 18 years exactly since the Twins last won a postseason series.

Hey! We’ve only averaged one postseason loss per year during this stretch!!

 

And they said this thread would be doom and gloom!

[Beemo]

You're forgetting the games the Twins lost before before their 18 game losing streak. The Twins also have a 4-1 series loss to the Angels and a 3-1 series loss to the Yankees for a grand total of 25 post-season losses since their last series win. That's 1.39 post-season losses per year! There's your doom and gloom.

 

On the other hand, the Yankees have lost 56 post-season games in that same 18 years. What a losing bunch of losers!

[Nine of twelve]

 

You're forgetting the games the Twins lost before before their 18 game losing streak. The Twins also have a 4-1 series loss to the Angels and a 3-1 series loss to the Yankees for a grand total of 25 post-season losses since their last series win. That's 1.39 post-season losses per year! There's your doom and gloom.

 

On the other hand, the Yankees have lost 56 post-season games in that same 18 years. What a losing bunch of losers!

Almost correct. The losses to the Angels were in the 2002 postseason and we are now in the 2020 postseason. That makes 19 postseasons, so it's actually 1.32 postseason losses per year.

[Number3]

 

If what you saying is true for any prominent member of the Twins organization then I want my 2021 season ticket money refunded. If this organization isn't beyond packing it in at the sight of another team then why bother following this club?

Excuse me for my opinion. Whoever wins the 2020 World Series will celebrate at the Rangers park, go to the clubhouse, take their masks off, have some champagne, and head for home asap to join those who already have. The victory will be quickly lost in the annals of MLB history and the only talk will be for the prospects of 2021. If you want to say that Miguel Sano would rather be playing Tampa instead of at home in the DR, go ahead. Only his friends there know the real answer.

[Thegrin]

It makes no difference. What happened in the 2020 playoffs will make no difference when the 2021 playoffs are played.  What does make a difference is what the players think about it. If they feel the weight of the Twins Fans on them, then they will probably fail again. But they probably won't.  They will look at next years challenge as a new challenge and will pitch catch & bat accordingly.  All those past results should have no impact on the players and they should have no impact on us.  Lets enjoy this years World Series and look forward to 2021. 

[Dodecahedron]

 

I totally discount this year. Good year to get in some real game practice. 

 

When future fans look at WS wins, it won't dawn on most of them that this was a shortened season unless they dive in and look deeper; even then they probably won't care as they won't understand the true nature of what we are going through. When people talk about the Twins losing streak in the playoffs, there won't be an asterisk because of the pandemic.

 

In sports, the only thing that exists is the now. The Twins can't practice for next year, next year will be a different team. There will be different players, different coaches, different schedules, and different challenges to face.  

 

The Twins talked a lot over the course of the season about wanting the 2020 AL Central Championship banner to hang in the stadium. They got that. For whatever reason, they had nothing else left in the tank, but that banner is still real and it still counts. Sure we can be disappointed, but the Twins did more this year than practice and there are a lot of recent years where a division championship was a pipe dream.

Apart from being lame against the White Sox and Royals, the Twins did a lot of damage to a lot of teams this year! Teams missed the playoffs or were seeded worse because the Twins laid waste to the two Central divisions. Going 24-7 at home...wow! We will never see that again in our lifetimes.

[USAFChief]

Excuse me for my opinion. Whoever wins the 2020 World Series will celebrate at the Rangers park, go to the clubhouse, take their masks off, have some champagne, and head for home asap to join those who already have. The victory will be quickly lost in the annals of MLB history and the only talk will be for the prospects of 2021. If you want to say that Miguel Sano would rather be playing Tampa instead of at home in the DR, go ahead. Only his friends there know the real answer.

Whoever wins the 2020 WS will be justifiably proud of, and thrilled with, the victory. Just as previous teams were.

 

The victory will mean as much as previous and future WS wins in "the annals" of history.

 

Fans will justifiably feel pain at not being able to attend in person, but few if any will be less happy hoisting the flag next spring.

[Nine of twelve]

 

Whoever wins the 2020 WS will be justifiably proud of, and thrilled with, the victory. Just as previous teams were.

The victory will mean as much as previous and future WS wins in "the annals" of history.

Fans will justifiably feel pain at not being able to attend in person, but few if any will be less happy hoisting the flag next spring.

I disagree with your second paragraph. You present it as fact but it's not, and even as an opinion it's far from universally-held.

[USAFChief]

I disagree with your second paragraph. You present it as fact but it's not, and even as an opinion it's far from universally-held.

Fair enough.

 

Check back in 10 years, I guess.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Excuse me for my opinion. Whoever wins the 2020 World Series will celebrate at the Rangers park, go to the clubhouse, take their masks off, have some champagne, and head for home asap to join those who already have. The victory will be quickly lost in the annals of MLB history and the only talk will be for the prospects of 2021.

The 2020 World Series champ will be "lost" in history? I'm guessing every reference source will list the 2020 champ between the 2019 and 2021 champs, with no asterisk.

 

The fact that the games were played on a neutral site, or that the winning players didn't soak the clubhouse in champagne, seems far more likely to be "lost" in history than the team that actually won the championship.

 

That's not to say we won't remember the odd circumstances of 2020. But the champion will likely be considered legitimate (especially if the sub-.500 Astros are hopefully eliminated in the ALCS ). Few notable players opted out. The regular season was shorter but the expanded playoffs gave every decent team a fair shot at the title, and only mild "upsets" have occurred so far.

 

Our best comp is probably the strike year of 1981. They played a few more games in the regular season (between 103-111) but their playoff format was considerably more unfair: the Reds and Cardinals actually had the best overall winning percentages in their respective divisions but weren't included in the expanded postseason! The Dodgers finished 4 games behind the Reds overall and wouldn't have qualified for a "normal" postseason at the time -- but in the "annals of history" that has become trivia and hasn't really lessened the significance of the Dodgers WS title at all.

[nicksaviking]

 

Whoever wins the 2020 WS will be justifiably proud of, and thrilled with, the victory. Just as previous teams were.

The victory will mean as much as previous and future WS wins in "the annals" of history.

Fans will justifiably feel pain at not being able to attend in person, but few if any will be less happy hoisting the flag next spring.

 

Plenty of people don't like the Dodgers, Atlanta and most definitely the Astros. I'm sure if any of them win plenty of people (maybe me included!) will discount their win merely out of spite. 

 

But if it had been my Twins, I'd be damned if I didn't fight back against anyone arguing that this year didn't count. It counted, and the playoff field was expanded, meaning the post season was even tougher than usual. I've never heard anyone discount the unusual seasons of 1981 or 1995. The NFL played with scabs for the first part of the 1987 season. If the Vikings hadn't lost in the NFC Championship game people around here certainly would be referring to that as a Super Bowl year.

[Dodecahedron]

 

The fact that the games were played on a neutral site, or that the winning players didn't soak the clubhouse in champagne, seems far more likely to be "lost" in history than the team that actually won the championship.

 

Yep. Future generations will look at the championship lists and playoff results. 

 

Heck, even in 3-4 years most of us will have forgotten the specifics of the year, much less our children.....

[Nine of twelve]

 

 

The fact that the games were played on a neutral site, or that the winning players didn't soak the clubhouse in champagne, seems far more likely to be "lost" in history than the team that actually won the championship.

 

 

Yep. Future generations will look at the championship lists and playoff results. 

 

Heck, even in 3-4 years most of us will have forgotten the specifics of the year, much less our children.....

I doubt it. For example, I know who lost the 1919 World Series and why, only because of the highly unusual circumstances surrounding it. I don't remember who won.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I doubt it. For example, I know who lost the 1919 World Series and why, only because of the highly unusual circumstances surrounding it. I don't remember who won.

I'm not sure this is a meaningful example. Most people probably don't know off the top of their head who won the 1916 World Series either, or 1931, etc. Doesn't mean the 1916 or 1931 champs are any less legitimate than other years. It's just a generic memory effect which applies to everything (although probably less so to the modern game, as compared to 100 years ago, due to media, video, marketing, expansion and league/franchise stability, etc.).

 

1919 and now 2017 may be the only less-than-legitimate WS champs in the general public's eye for obvious reasons (and I suspect 2017's illegitimacy may still fade with time). Beyond that, I guess baseball historians might discount the WW2 years, when many players could not participate due to military service. But as of now, there are no cheating allegations about 2020, and very few notable players opted out of competition this year. The weird circumstances of 2020 everywhere will be remembered in the public consciousness, but it seems doubtful that the legitimacy of its baseball WS champ will be viewed the same as a cheating scandal or world war.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If the Astros win this year -- well, it would be complicated by the whole 2017 thing -- but I could see that club and its 29-31 regular season record lumped into discussions with the 1987 Twins and 2006 Cardinals as fluke / undeserving champs based on regular season record. But probably not forgotten (and certainly not as illegitimate as 1919).

 

 

But the other 3 clubs are all generally considered among the best in baseball, not only in 2020 but also 2019 and likely 2021 and beyond too. I think the lasting general public perception of one of those teams winning the title in 2020 will be pretty normal.

[Nine of twelve]

 

I'm not sure this is a meaningful example. Most people probably don't know off the top of their head who won the 1916 World Series either, or 1931, etc. Doesn't mean the 1916 or 1931 champs are any less legitimate than other years. It's just a generic memory effect which applies to everything (although probably less so to the modern game, as compared to 100 years ago, due to media, video, marketing, expansion and league/franchise stability, etc.).

 

1919 and now 2017 may be the only less-than-legitimate WS champs in the general public's eye for obvious reasons (and I suspect 2017's illegitimacy may still fade with time). Beyond that, I guess baseball historians might discount the WW2 years, when many players could not participate due to military service. But as of now, there are no cheating allegations about 2020, and very few notable players opted out of competition this year. The weird circumstances of 2020 everywhere will be remembered in the public consciousness, but it seems doubtful that the legitimacy of its baseball WS champ will be viewed the same as a cheating scandal or world war.

I'm not saying that the 2020 World Champion is less legitimate than the World Champion of any other year. I'm simply saying that the circumstances surrounding the 2020 postseason are very unusual and therefore very memorable.

[Thegrin]

in 89 & 91 the Twins won the WS.  All other years are ho-hum.