Same Old Story: Another Abject Postseason Failure

[jun]

 

As a 40 year+ Twins fan, this loss---not that we could forget "the streak" as freaking Karl Ravich had to remind the national audience what seemed like every 10 minutes----just blends in with all the others since 2004.  Don't get me wrong, I'm thoroughly p*ssed off at a multitude of things, but will save that RANT for another day.  

 

So, turning the page to 2021------what else can we do-----I agree with a few other posts that its time for Falvey-Levine/Pohlads to take a step back and rebuild this roster.  Looking at current roster, the following players are all UFA's and imo they should ALL be allowed to leave/shown the door:

C: Avila

UT: Adrianza

UT:  M. Gonzalez

 

Those 3 combined salary in 2020 was:  $14.85mill.  Those $$ can be better reallocated in several areas 

 

In addition, the following Pitchers should be shown the door "asap"

1. Odorizzi

2. Bailey

3. Hill

4. T. May* (tough call)--I could be convinced to bring him back, but prefer the upside of Stashak and Alcala

 

Although not a UFA, there is NO WAY to justify bringing Romo back on a $5 mill club option/$250K buyout.  NO WAY this should happen for a 38-year old RP with 1 pitch.

 

Also--1 more cut-------Jake Cave. Although Cave won't cost much (paid $587.5K this season), Falvey has got a RH bat 4th OFer that can hit LH's.  I would try to sign UFA Kevin Pillar. Pillar is 31-year old veteran.  Pillar was productive this season between Red Sox and Rockies hitting .288 with 6 HRs and 26 RBI.  Pillar was even better vs. LH pitching hitting .342 (76ABs) with a .969 OPS.

 

Now, with those cuts-we can start to restructure the roster for next year with the intent of challenging for a playoff spot & building for the future:

 

Catcher:  2

Mitch Garver:  Arb 1 eligible. Made $620K this season.  Won't see much of anything in way of a raise.  After his dreadful season, he has to earn the #1 slot back

Ryan Jeffers:  Under team control.  Solid defensively and bat showed some thump

 

INFIELD: 5

1B:  Sano; Signed for 2021 at $11.0mill.  Not going anywhere.  Possible DH if mgmt doesn't resign Cruz.

2B:  Arraez:  Under TC for 2021; made league min (596K in 2020). Must improve his speed and range and find a way to stay healthy next year. Only played in 33 of 60 games this season.

SS:  Polanco; signed for a reasonable $4.33m next year.  Huge regression in his offense this season.  

3B:  Donaldson:  35 years old next year and due $21.0m per year over next 3 seasons.  Key to our offense even at his age. Only 28 games played and not as productive as hoped, but Twins were a much better team with him in lineup and defensively at 3B.

UTILITY INFIELDER:   Need to find via trade or in free agency.  Possible cheap alternative could be Travis Blankenhorn. Got a cup of coffee from alternate site this year, but hit .277 in 471 plate appearances last season with 19 HRs and 54 RBI in 108 games

DH:   Nelson Cruz-UFA for 2021.  I really can't believe Falvey will allow him to leave during FA.  His market will be limited if NL returns to NO DH rule next season, which I can see MLBPA pushing for in offseason.  If that's the case, even for a 41-year old--Twins have to at minimum make a reasonable 2-year offer---$30mill.  I know a high expenditure, but worth it with the numbers he's put up the last 2 years.

 

If you're keeping track-------Twins have $36.33 mill obligated for trio of Sano, Polanco and Donaldson.  Add another $15mill for Cruz, $600K (league minimum) for Jeffers & Arraez, maybe $1 mill for Garver in arbitration and $3m for a veteran utility infielder acquired in FA---that takes payroll to right at $56-57mill for 7 roster spots.  

 

OF

Rosario:  Made nearly $8m this season and due a raise in arbitration.  UFA in 2022.  Time to TRADE Rosario for a RH bat/ Corner OF or a closer/RP.  

Buxton:   Arb 3 eligible; Made $3.075 mill this season.  He will be back. I'd project raise in area around $4mill

Kepler:   Signed for $6.5mill next season and through 2023.  Must improve his bat next season and find a way to stay in the lineup, preferably in a lower slot.

4th OFer:   Already covered, but I think Pillar should be a major target in free agency. Veteran leader, which this team needs!!  Played for $4.25m in 2020.

Corner OFer*---If Rosario is traded:  I got to think Kiriloff's promotion to playoff roster is a signal mgmt is counting on him next season.  

 

So, if you add the OF payroll together for Kepler, Buxton, Kirilloff and Pillar(?) that add another $17mill to above players for a total payout of $74mill.

 

Moving onto our Pitching.  13 slots/ 5 starters/ 8 RPs

SP1:  Maeda; signed for $3.125 per season through 2023.  What a bargain!

SP2:  Berrios:  Arb 2 eligible. Made $4.025 this season.  In line for a large contract from Twins mgmt.  Not sure if Berrios will accept as he's due to hit the FA market in 2023.  I assume he gets a nice raise in the area of $6mill for next year

SP 3:  Pineda:  Signed for $10m for 2021

SP4:   Randy Dobnak; Cheap SP alternative that was Twins best pitcher from opening day through later part of August.  Under team control for 2021 in area of $600K

SP5:      FREE AGENT or TRADE MARKET.  

 

Add the top 4 SPs to previous monies and payroll is at/close to $94 mill.

 

BULLPEN:  8 slots

Tyler Clippard:  UFA, but a RP that I believe Falvey should try to resign. Made $2.75m this season and I think he'd resign for 1 year for $3.25m

Matt Wisler:  Arb 2 eligible and should be offered.  Made $725K as UFA signee in offseason.  Should be able resign him for $1.25m

Cody Stashak:  Under team control.  Will be back in 2021 at/around league min/$600K

Jorge Alcala:  Same as Stashak. Showed flashes this season. Only 26. Back for league minimum-$600K

Tyler Duffey:  IMO our best and most consistent RP in 2020. Arb. 2 eligible and should be offered.  Made $1.2 mill in 2020.  See a raise to around $3.0 for 2021

Taylor Rogers:  Although Rogers clearly regressed this season, his contract likely brings him back, but not necessarily in closer role for 2021.  Rogers is Arb 3 eligible after making $4.45 mill this year.  I project a salary of $5.5 for next season.

 

Add those 6 RPs to other roster slots and you see a payroll in the area of $105 mill for 23 of our 25 man roster for 2021.

 

Twins total payroll for 2019 was $125mill.  So, the way I figure--Falvey and mgmt have $20-25 mill to spend on 3 free agents/trade acquisitions-----1SP and 2 solid RPs with 1 of those RPs being a hard throwing closer with experience and a past track record of success.

 

I havent forgot about the following 3 hitters that all could play vital roles next season:

Brent Rooker

Trevor Larnach

Royce Lewis

 

With the lost 2020 season--playing regular games I see all 3 starting the season in minors; Lewis at AA and Larnach and Rooker back in AAA at Rochester.  

I would not mind seeing Hill to replace Dobnak in the rotation next year and I certainly hope May can be brought back. Twins need to add at least one maybe two good bullpen arms (lefty preferred).

[howeda7]

Like Gardy, Rocco is a pretty good regular season manager, but he's an even worse post season manager. I don't think we will ever win a post season series with him as manager. I know it won't happen, but I'd be fine moving on.

 

FWIW, even given that they were underdogs in the vast majority of the games, the odds of losing these 18 games in a row is approximate 1 in 20,000. It's truly unbelievable. 

[howeda7]

As for the FA's: Letting Odorizi go is a no brainer. Gonzalez as well. My feeling on Cruz has shifted. I think we are seeing the beginning of what will likely be a swift decline from him. His last month reminds me of Jim Thome 2011. There is certainly no way I'd give him a 2-year deal. i know he's our clubhouse leader and all, but really, where has that gotten us? I'd try to keep May and Clippard if he's cheap. 

 

I'd assume 130 million is going to be about the maximum payroll can go next year given the uncertainties. 

 

2B Arreaz

CF Buxton

RF Kepler

3B Donaldson

LF Kierloff

DH Rooker

SS Polanco

1B Sano

C Jeffers

 

Bench:

Garver

Adrianza

Wade

Astudillo

 

Starters:

Trevor Bauer

Maeda

Berrios

Pineda

Dobnak

 

Bullpen:

Duffy

May

Rodgers

Clippard

Stashak

Alcala

Thielbar

Lefty FA

 

 

[jun]

 

Twins 2021:

Hitters

C-Jeffers/Garver

1B-someone who can hit

2B-Arraez

3B-Donaldson

SS-Lewis

LF-Larnach

CF-someone who can stay healthy

RF-Kirilloff

DH-Cruz

Bench-Polanco, Rooker, Wade, Blankenhorn

GoodBye- Avila, Astudillo, Sano, Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Adrianza, Cave, Marwin.

Pitchers

SP-Maeda, Berrios, Pineda, Balazovic, add 1

RP-Clippard, Wisler, Alcala, add 3 Hill possible resign for a long relief role.

I've seen enough of May, Stashak, Duffey, Rogers and Romo. Not impressed with Dobnak. Let's move forward, not sideways.  

I would give May, Stashak and Duffey another chance. I don't want to see Romo and Dobnak. 1B-somone who can hit, that would be Rooker. I might give Buxton another chance since he was hit by a pitch, it's at least uncontrollable this time. I also suggest to send Duffey and Rocco out for vacation as soon as the regular season ends.

[cardsfan]

I never read about any of your minor league pitchers coming up to make an impact. As I pointed out last year there were many awful teams that lost 89 or more that you hit over 200 HRs off of their pitching and less off of the better teams. This wasn't an anomaly.

 

You need a better model for pitching as thinking Homer Bailey, Rich Hill and Odorizzi was going to dominate good teams.

 

You should look at Maeda's second half numbers as he becomes a reliever.

 

Where's the minor league pitching prospects? Good pitching stops good hitting is the old cliche.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

I think Polanco can be fixed. He seemed to have some pretty obvious mechanical issues when hitting left-handed, and I think if attended to, he could be back to his usual self in 2021. Kepler is simply an enigma and I'm tired of Sano. 

Polanco is enigmatic as well. His defense was remarkable improved, yet that left-handed batting thing, ouch.

[jun]

 

I started watching this team while I was a teenager in 2002, after I'd moved to Minnesota the summer before high school and had nothing else to do. They went to the ALCS that year and had no real business being there and they captured my imagination. I am now in my mid-30s and I have been following them ever since. Grown up, in the middle of a career, I have children, a house. My life progresses and yet this Twins team does not. While everything changes around me all the time, there is one thing I can count on. The Twins will be a disappointment. They will make you wonder why you spend all your time and energy on it. But, same as every other damn year, I will watch it again the next. The seasons will pass, sun will rise and set, tides will roll in and out, and the Twins will still suck. See you all next spring.

Well just like you, I started to pay attention to Twins as soon as I came to USA and then moved to Duluth for college around winter time in 1991. I then moved back NY a few years later and I have been a Twins fan ever since.

[D.C Twins]

Inexcusable to pull the SPs after 5 innings with 75-90 pitches thrown (with a run or less given up.)

 

Just-BAT-S-CRAZY!  The second and third order effects with bullpen use and outcomes were entirely predictable.

 

Happy with manager and FO overall, but they need to seriously reevaluate the difference between regular season and post season strategy.

[jun]

 

As for the FA's: Letting Odorizi go is a no brainer. Gonzalez as well. My feeling on Cruz has shifted. I think we are seeing the beginning of what will likely be a swift decline from him. His last month reminds me of Jim Thome 2011. There is certainly no way I'd give him a 2-year deal. i know he's our clubhouse leader and all, but really, where has that gotten us? I'd try to keep May and Clippard if he's cheap. 

 

I'd assume 130 million is going to be about the maximum payroll can go next year given the uncertainties. 

 

2B Arreaz

CF Buxton

RF Kepler

3B Donaldson

LF Kierloff

DH Rooker

SS Polanco

1B Sano

C Jeffers

 

Bench:

Garver

Adrianza

Wade

Astudillo

 

Starters:

Trevor Bauer

Maeda

Berrios

Pineda

Dobnak

 

Bullpen:

Duffy

May

Rodgers

Clippard

Stashak

Alcala

Thielbar

Lefty FA

I would let Rooker start at 1B. Cruz has to be brought back even if it's a two-year deal. Sano needs to earn to start at 1B or he can ride the bench. Adrianza and Astudillo need to be let go or demoted. Garver needs to improve or he should be demoted. I have a lot more faith in Rich Hill than Dobnak. Rogers and Thielbar should be reevaluated. Wisler should be brought back instead of Thielbar. Rogers need to improve and I would like to see two more effective lefties in the bullpen.

[Aichiman]

It's 100%, on the manager.  Unless Baldelli is fired, I want nothing to do with the Twins.  At least I remember '87 and '91.  They can't take that away from me!

 

[Fritzderkat]

And thus they are known as the Twinks..

[jun]

All Twins hitters should watch tonight's game (Yankees vs Indians) and take notes. See how those Yankees hitters take care of their business. It feels like all their hitters are either Arraez or Cruz and they can get runs across at will.

[jimbo92107]

Weird season in the middle of a weird year. I hope not to read about any TD people getting a bad case of the virus. I hope the Twins players manage to stay reasonably healthy this off-season. Looks like the Twins have a solid new catcher in Jeffers, and a pitching staff that looks promising. 

 

Take care, everybody. 

Jimbo

[h2oface]

 

All Twins hitters should watch tonight's game (Yankees vs Indians) and take notes. See how those Yankees hitters take care of their business. It feels like all their hitters are either Arraez or Cruz and they can get runs across at will.

 

I was amazed at how they would stay alive in the 9th, and definitely not be taking a close pitch with 2 strikes, but they adjusted their swings, and not just to make contact, but to put it in play in a place to have a chance to sneak through the infield... and they did. Impessive. And Sanchez just wanted a fly ball for a sac fly, and did it. Very Impressive. 

[IndianaTwin]

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. What was our record without Buxton and Donaldson this year? Certainly not bad enough to cause two consecutive lifeless losses at home, as the favored team, with a favored starting pitching matchup. Odds are, a healthy Buxton and Donaldson would have joined the malaise; at best, they may have occasionally reached base only to be stranded by their teammates.

 

And it's not like other clubs aren't missing players. Houston was missing Yordan Alvarez, Justin Verlander, and Roberto Osuna.

 

Since you asked...

 

(all including playoffs)

With Donaldson, 17-8 (.680)

Without Donaldson, 19-18 (.514)

 

With Buxton, 22-14 (.611)

Without Buxton, 14-12 (.538)

 

It’s impossible to know what things would have been like, but a lot of us noticed the different feel the team had when they were back from injury. You describe “malaise” of the last two days, and I think that’s a good description. But I don’t think they have that malaise with them present. If they do, Donaldson is one of the guys in the dugout most likely to address It. 

 

It’s even more impossible to know that specific things would have been different, but here’s a few things that come to mind: 

*The lineup is simply longer with Donaldson and Buxton in it. On Wednesday, a guy made his MLB debut with the bases loaded in the first. If they’re healthy, Kiriloff isn’t up in that situation.

*On Tuesday, they got Greinke to 30 pitches in the first inning, without one of their most patient hitters in the lineup. Wednesday, they got Urquidy to 26 in the first, again without the patient Donaldson. 

*A couple of specific defensive plays come to mind where Marwin wasn’t able to make the tough play at third and Donaldson has a much better likelihood of making it. Tuesday’s was particularly crucial, when he didn’t make the play on what would have been the third out of the seventh inning. Springer followed with the RBI single. It also cost Duffey a few pitches, so he might have gotten more of the 8th.

*Wednesday’s play didn’t lead to a run in the top of the fifth, but if Berrios gets out with one fewer batter, he’s more likely to get the sixth.

*We don’t know who would have replaced Rosario, but with Marwin and Kiriloff on the bench, perhaps Cave isn’t flailing at ball four with the tieing run on base.  

 

We don’t know how things would have played out. And yes, the Astros were missing players, but it also makes a difference to have weeks to prepare for missing pieces, rather than days as in the case of Donaldson and Berrios. And yes, they still needed to figure out how to get hits.

 

But I think it’s definitely a different series with those two available and healthy. 

[Platoon]

 

Initially, I was going to refrain from saying anything since I didn't want to knee jerk any thoughts. A few hours later, I feel calm enough and compelled to be able to speak/write calmly.

Just understand, while ever the optimist, I am PO'd, disappointed, frustrated and borderline embarrassed. But calm now, lol.

1] Baldelli has done a great job thus far, even if I disagree with him on occasion. Calls for him to be replaced are emotional and misguided at best. That being said, I believe he pulled Maeda and Berrios too early. It's the playoffs! You play for NOW and not tomorrow. You may love and trust your pen, but when you have a pair of quality SP doing their job, you trust in them first and shorten the game. Absolutely do not agree with removing Jeffers in game 1. Made zero sense then and makes ZERO sense now.

2] The starting pitching did not lose these games. Maeda and Berrios were GOOD, and had mkre in the tank, IMO. And while there was some crumbling of the pen, to be sure, I don't feel the pen really lost these games. (Mkre on that to come). Despite some less than stellar moments late in the year, the Twins had one of the best pens around this season. Time and again they performed including bullpen games when injuries affected the rotation.

There remains room for improvement, and there will be a couple new faces via trade, FA or promotion of young arms. And yes, I want May back. You don't just walk away from arms like that with mostly good results, especially when you see another level oh so close for them to reach.

Just being calm, I'm excited as can be that the rotation in 2021 begins with Maeda and Berrios and Pineda. The Twins then need a healthy Odorizzi back for next season, OR, an equivalent Oddorizi/Maeda FA signing or trade acquisition. May seem easier said than done, but they've already done it. Honestly, might be best to bank on Oddo, a known quantity. They then need a decent, smart move similar to Pineda, Hill or Bailey type to compete with Dobnak and prospects.

The pitching was good in 2020 and mostly good in these 2 vastly disappointing games. There is room to continue to grow and get even better. But again, I don't think pitching lost this series.

That brings us to the #1 problem with this frustrating and embarrassing early exit:

3] The offense/lineup needs to be re-worked. The problem is, who and how? Offense was remarkably down all across MLB this season. The Twins were absolutely not the only team to see nosedive in overall performance as a team, or from individuals. Honestly, do Garver, Kepler and Polanco, etc, need to be given up on and jettisoned because of a crazy, weird, mixed up season? If true, then there will be a TON of guys across baseball moved or given walking papers based solely on this crazy year. Sorry folks, it isn't happening. There will be a whole lot of "re-sets" for all teams in 2021.

Power is king in MLB, but it always has been. We all know this. There are a lot of ways to score runs and there still are today despite the changes in the game. But even 20/30/40 years ago, power has always been productive, proven and coveted. Maybe more so in the post season when you face top pitching and stringing together a series of hits to score becomes futile at times.

But there is a major difference between having POWER while also having the ability to HIT a ball somewhere and even make CONTACT. I can't and won't single out any player on this roster. Nor will I point an easy finger towards the hitting coaches. There is an ancient expression that goes: "those who live by the sword die by the sword". Unfortunately...covid, short ramp up, injuries, adjustments by the opposition, or bad luck for bad seasons for multiple players...the Twins didn't HIT well this season, especially when it mattered most.

How many times did a batter, a batter with power even, fail to get a runner in with something as simple as a sac fly? I get a SO is better than a double play. But dang it, sometimes putting the ball in play is much better than a SO or an infield/foul pop up!

With no blame pointed at any individual, the offense has been the most disappointing part of 2020 and this disappointing/frustrating early exit.

Is Arraez the only HITTER on the team as currently constructed? I'd like to think not when I look at the talent on hand, and past production. And maybe we can dismiss a lot of poor BA and OB to this whole crazy season. Or maybe the FO and coaching staff need to re-evaluate a few spots here and there and find a change or two that can provide more balance.

As for me, I am ecstatic there was baseball in 2020 and I enjoyed the hell out of watching my Twins have another great season, despite an ugly finish. They have won back to back banners and have a window of opportunity that still appears wide open when I look at the roster and what is coming up! And I will be kept a little bit warmer when winter hits due to the Hot Stove and impending 2021 ST.

Your point about power is well stated. Power isn’t trying to jerk every pitch towards your pull side over the fence. See Dozier, Brian. Yes, if you get a nice cookie early in the count go for it. If not, that’s where discipline comes in. Sometimes later in the count you simply must concede the advantage to the pitcher, and go with what he throws you. But since power has become so over emphasized in baseball today, hitters are still trying to pull that 1-2 slider off the corner down the line. The outcome is predictable. Guys like Cruz and Miguel Cabrera have figured this out. The Sano’s of the world may never get a handle on it. I do think the emphasis on hitting the ball in the air has compounded the problem. Players are human, and they start to hit a few HR’s and it becomes a narcotic. The temptation to think you can do it with regularity becomes hard to resist. If I am a pitcher, the guy I want to see come up late in the game with men on base is one of these wannabe power guys with 20 HR’s, all 50’ from the foul pole. He’s as good as money in my bank. 

[bighat]

Gotta love Rocco resting Byron Buxton in an elimination game, because he "is not felling 100 percent". 

 

The previous day Buxton got a hit and an SB in Game 1. Not feeling 100%??? Huh? At this point in the season, is anyone 100%?

 

Like seriously. "Not feeling 100%"? It's an elimination playoff game, Rocco.

[Huskertwin]

Gotta save those innings on the starting pitchers, so they'll be ready to go for next season!

Geez Baldelli, it's the playoffs - keep those good starting pitchers with low pitch counts in the game!

[Huskertwin]

 

 The shift in certain scenarios led to runs being scored, when runs are a premium in playoffs.  Kudos to weak seeing eye singles, but they should have been outs and no damage.

It drives me crazy when you shift 3 players to the pull side (like with Bregman up) and then pitch the ball to the outside edge, which he easily hit to the spot where the 2nd baseman would normally be. The over shifts take away from a pitchers ability to pitch effectively. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Inexcusable to pull the SPs after 5 innings with 75-90 pitches thrown (with a run or less given up.)

 

Just-BAT-S-CRAZY! The second and third order effects with bullpen use and outcomes were entirely predictable.

 

I wish it were that simple, but the Astros did the same thing with pulling their starting pitchers, and they swept us. Yankees did it in our ALDS last year and swept us too.

[Cody Pirkl]

 

I agree with some of the above, and maybe taking a step back and retooling a bit.  

Rosario is probably gone, they need to make a decision between Garver and Jeffers (I prefer Jeffers), Gonzales will probably go to a club that is closer to winning, and knows how, same with Cruz if the Twins cannot retain him.

Pitching, would like to see them resign Hill, and maybe extend Pineda.  See what they can do with Berrios and if nothing shop him.

Twins need to find leaders in the clubhouse, seem to be lacking except for a couple of veterans.  Should be an interesting offseason.

Rosario gone: Definitely. If they started Kirilloff in that game, there's no way they don't trust him to play opening day, and he's much cheaper and quite possibly better.

 

Garver and Jeffers: I don't think much needs to be figured out. They'll probably split time and if Garver rebounds even a little bit they probably combine for one of the better tandems of catchers in baseball

 

Marwin: I think you have it backwards on Marwin. He barely eclipsed replacement level and was one of the worst regular hitters in all of baseball. He was the slowest runner on the team and that includes Cruz. Marwin looks absolutely cooked at 31 and quite possibly may not even get a major league deal with a bad team.

 

Cruz: Probably gone if he wants two years

 

Pitching: Would love to re sign Hill. Probably won't extend Pineda. The only reason they re signed him in the first place was how cheap he was from his extension. Berrios is going to hit the open market, that's a fact. I think I remember them offering him Aaron Nola money and he wanted more which is an absolute joke. They definitely won't trade him though.

[rdehring]

Considering the subject, Nick, I really don't want to say it was a great post. But the fact is you nailed it. I had moved on to 2021 after Tuesday's loss that shouldn't have been. 

 

I see lots of talk above about 2021, but no one has mentioned the ugly truth. Yes, this team needs lots of changes to get over that last hurdle. But planning for 2021 is going to be almost impossible for the people that will be doing it.

 

There are many questions the FO and owner will be facing. Will there be a normal 2021 spring training and season? If there is a 162 game season, will there be fans in the stands? And if so, how many? Will there be any progress towards a new CBA during the season? Or will baseball come to a halt after next year's post season? Considering the players unwillingness to give a nickel on their per game compensation during a pandemic, it sure seems like a strong possibility. And on a related note, will there be a minor league season? If not, baseball may have lost an entire group of players who were well into their development and won't be there to replace aging veterans over the coming years.

 

And none of the above questions has much to do with any decisions about filling out a 2021 roster. But with that uncertainty, I don't see the Twins (or most teams) spending like normal. I will be surprised if lots of players don't end up on one year contracts for a lot less than they want. Likewise, I will be surprised if the Twins 2021 opening day payroll, assuming there is an opening day, is much over $100,000,000. And with Donaldson making $21,000,000, that doesn't leave room for any big free agent contracts.

 

[blindeke]

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. What was our record without Buxton and Donaldson this year? Certainly not bad enough to cause two consecutive lifeless losses at home, as the favored team, with a favored starting pitching matchup. Odds are, a healthy Buxton and Donaldson would have joined the malaise; at best, they may have occasionally reached base only to be stranded by their teammates.

 

And it's not like other clubs aren't missing players. Houston was missing Yordan Alvarez, Justin Verlander, and Roberto Osuna.

 

Without those two guys they were a .500 team. When both were healthy, they were great.

 

I think Buxton and Donaldson take our defense from mediocre to very good, both infield and outfield. And when healthy, they were both mashing. Buxton healthy is a force, helmet flying off, running like crazy, hitting HRs all over the place, beating out singles and doubles. Donaldson is our 2nd best hitter when he's not hurt. 

 

That game against the Reds really screwed the team.

[mikelink45]

 

A manager who can't get his team psyched up for the playoffs just adds to the misery of 18 straight playoff series. Pitiful baseball as usual. Very embarassing to be a fan of this team as I've been since Oliva's rookie year.

If I can compare across sports - Bud Grant was a great in season coach - but every year that we were in the Superbowl (4) we looked pathetic.  Lacking energy while teams like KC were flying high.  Bud wanted an even keel like Rocco, but in the big games we need the emotion of Puckett, Hrbek, Morris, Gladden.  I saw no emotions the last half season because we were not playing for the division lead (which the WS handed us) and that lack of emotion and drive carried over into the playoffs. Look at Miami in the NBA - they do not belong in the championship game, but our old friend Jimmy Butler willed them in. 

[peterb18]

 

What Rocco will say: “These guys BATTLED. We played them TOUGH and are looking forward to building on this next year. I am so PROUD of these guys.”

What Rocco should say: "That wasn't good enough and that's not acceptable. Changes our coming and the guys that are ALLOWED to hang around better figure this the **** out or they won't be here anymore. **** the Yankees. Go Marlins."

Too much of a country club atmosphere with this team starting in spring training. Historically in any sport teams and players need some discipline and toughness. And Rocco hasn’t proven that he’s a game manager yet. 

[theBOMisthebomb]

Romo wasn't terrible in game one. Two bloopers then Polanco makes a Little League error. No earned runs and he should have been out of the inning with no damage.

[insagt1]

From my baseball-less perch in Rochester, NY, I wish you all a safe off-season and look forward to more Twins baseball, hopefully, in 2021. And we hope to be able to resume play in AAA, to help develop the next crop of Twins going forward. It was a tough season for sure.

I enjoyed reading everyone's feelings and opinions as well as being able to vent a bit about yet another failed post season. i appreciate that for the most part, the folks here respected each others thoughts, agree or disagree, without making the poster feel like they didn't belong.

 

I'll make a comment about one thing I felt about game one: Romo has to not walk in the go-ahead run...no matter what transpired before. His job was to throw strikes and let his teammates back him up. In that capacity, Romo failed badly.

Other than that, you all have made good observations about what caused us to crash and burn. From the way the Yankees took apart the Indians pitching staff, including the almost sure thing Cy Young winner,we probably wouldn't have had a chance against them anyway.

 

As to who I'd like to see represent the AL in World Series....anyone but the Yankees! So again everyone....stay well. Already looking forward to 2021.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Without those two guys they were a .500 team. When both were healthy, they were great.

We played a below .500 team this week. And we were swept, at home, while looking completely and thoroughly lifeless.

 

 

I think Buxton and Donaldson take our defense from mediocre to very good, both infield and outfield. And when healthy, they were both mashing. Buxton healthy is a force, helmet flying off, running like crazy, hitting HRs all over the place, beating out singles and doubles. Donaldson is our 2nd best hitter when he's not hurt. 

I know Marwin misplayed a ball or two at third yesterday, but I don't think it factored in any scoring. Our outfield play was fine.

 

Nothing against Buxton and Donaldson, all things equal of course I would rather have them in the lineup than not given the alternatives. But I really doubt their presence would have made much difference vs the Astros this week. Neither is immune to slumps themselves -- notice that Buxton was 0-11 with 7 Ks in his last 11 PAs *before* the HBP vs the Reds, and Donaldson was 4-for-30 in his last two postseasons. And they and their replacements still reached base 4 times in these two Astros games.

 

Small sample size, but after losing the White Sox series, Kepler and Rosario were actually our two most productive hitters the rest of the season -- not Buxton and Donaldson. How did that work out in the playoffs? Those two were 0-for-12. Arraez had a fantastic return vs the Reds, then was 0-for-6 against the Astros.

 

For a normal team, with normal performances, it seems perfectly rational to consider the effects of missing players. But a team hitting .109/.246/.145 (.392 OPS) across two games, favored at home, doesn't tell me they were two bats of Buxton and Donaldson caliber short on doing meaningfully better.

[USAFChief]

We played a below .500 team this week. And we were swept, at home, while looking completely and thoroughly lifeless.

 

 

I know Marwin misplayed a ball or two at third yesterday, but I don't think it factored in any scoring. Our outfield play was fine.

 

Nothing against Buxton and Donaldson, all things equal of course I would rather have them in the lineup than not given the alternatives. But I really doubt their presence would have made much difference vs the Astros this week. Neither is immune to slumps themselves -- notice that Buxton was 0-11 with 7 Ks in his last 11 PAs *before* the HBP vs the Reds, and Donaldson was 4-for-30 in his last two postseasons. And they and their replacements still reached base 4 times in these two Astros games.

 

Small sample size, but after losing the White Sox series, Kepler and Rosario were actually our two most productive hitters the rest of the season -- not Buxton and Donaldson. How did that work out in the playoffs? Those two were 0-for-12. Arraez had a fantastic return vs the Reds, then was 0-for-6 against the Astros.

 

For a normal team, with normal performances, it seems perfectly rational to consider the effects of missing players. But a team hitting .109/.246/.145 (.392 OPS) across two games, favored at home, doesn't tell me they were two bats of Buxton and Donaldson caliber short on doing meaningfully better.

It's impossible to know. It's also undeniable the Twins have been better with Buxton in the lineup over the past year plus.

 

And I dont think there's any argument to be made Donaldson isn't better than Marwin Gonzalez.

 

Doesn't matter, ultimately.

[Trov]

You hit it right on the head.  Every year when playoffs start it is like a different team shows up.  No hits with runners in scoring position, bad pen work, bad base running, errors.  I do not know if it is the players, the coaching staff, or what it is that makes this happen.  I hate when people claim nerves as some excuse, like only the Twins have same level of nerves, if that is the case and the other teams are not nervous, then maybe it is the player or coaching staff that does not prepare for the game well enough.