Article: Health Permitting, Pelfrey Could Deliver

[jimbo92107]

Yet another reason to bring up some young, fast outfielders.

[nokomismod]

Totally agree Jimbo.

And has quantity ever been better than quality?

[Nick Nelson]

Again with the Scott Baker crap Lev? It's time to move on. Not sure why you feel the need to relive the same argument every time any move is made.

 

I don't view Baker or Pelfrey as great fits for the Twins on one-year deals, but both are highly preferable to Correia's two-year deal. I wouldn't say my post was a ringing endorsement of this signing, more an observation that it makes a lot more sense than Ryan's first splash.

 

I will, however, say that Pelfrey is to me a more proven commodity than Baker. He has been healthy and good at the same time more often, despite being more than two years younger. His arm has held up FAR better than Baker's throughout his career. That's not irrelevant when you're talking about who's going to bounce back better from a major arm injury.

 

Also, their surgeries took place two weeks apart. It is a negligible difference.

[TheLeviathan]

I wouldn't say my post was a ringing endorsement of this signing, more an observation that it makes a lot more sense than Ryan's first splash.

 

No, what you did was go positive on this signing in directly contradictory ways that you went negative on the Baker move. And you did some serious gymnastics to do it. I'm just calling you out on it, read your two blogs - they are basically Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde on the same points.

 

Baker has been a better pitcher in a tougher league, Pelfrey has been more durable. On a one year, "hope they rebound" deal - I'd personally defer to the better pitcher in that case. That doesn't change that your standards for "good deal/bad deal" totally flipped on their head. I don't mind Pelfrey, he's fine. But I was also fine with Baker for the very same reasons I'm fine with Pelfrey. You completely flipped on your own takes, I'm just calling you out on the consistency.

[jokin]

No, what you did was go positive on this signing in directly contradictory ways that you went negative on the Baker move. And you did some serious gymnastics to do it. I'm just calling you out on it, read your two blogs - they are basically Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde on the same points.

 

Baker has been a better pitcher in a tougher league, Pelfrey has been more durable. On a one year, "hope they rebound" deal - I'd personally defer to the better pitcher in that case. That doesn't change that your standards for "good deal/bad deal" totally flipped on their head. I don't mind Pelfrey, he's fine. But I was also fine with Baker for the very same reasons I'm fine with Pelfrey. You completely flipped on your own takes, I'm just calling you out on the consistency.

 

I sense a pattern here. Nick seems to get his dual roles as a Twins fan and a baseball analyst faultily conflated, at times.

 

The only consistent thing that stands out about this signing is the recent pattern of warming up to Boras clients, conceivably Ryan is offering his services as a bridge contractor of Boras clients looking for a holding spot while waiting for a bigger payday down the road. Perhaps there is hope for some more Boras guys to get parked here short -term- Jurrjens, Lohse or....gulp.....Bourn?..... or take one of the above as tit-for-tat on signing the likes of Boras' lower-end stable of guys like Derek Lowe or Johnny Damon?

[snepp]

Commenting on one of Nick's pitching related articles without digging into your bag of Duensing strawmen? You're slipping.

[jokin]

Commenting on one of Nick's pitching related articles without digging into your bag of Duensing strawmen? You're slipping.

 

Pavlovian defensive response? You're not slipping.

[TheLeviathan]

Commenting on one of Nick's pitching related articles without digging into your bag of Duensing strawmen? You're slipping.

 

Why would Duensing be involved....did we trade for Pelfrey?

[snepp]

Pavlovian defensive response? You're not slipping.

 

At least you've stopped denying it, that's a start.

[snepp]

Why would Duensing be involved....did we trade for Pelfrey?

 

No, but signing Pelfrey is just like making a trade.

 

[DaveW]

Again with the Scott Baker crap Lev? It's time to move on. Not sure why you feel the need to relive the same argument every time any move is made.

Lev101 in a nutshell.

[Nick Nelson]

No, what you did was go positive on this signing in directly contradictory ways that you went negative on the Baker move. And you did some serious gymnastics to do it. I'm just calling you out on it, read your two blogs - they are basically Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde on the same points.

So what you're saying is that Baker and Pelfrey are the same player, and therefore any differing analysis of the two signings must be an example of inconsistency?

 

I think I did a pretty thorough job of explaining my preference for Pelfrey's deal over Baker's in the initial response, which you apparently glossed over. Baker is a talented pitcher with upside who has rarely been reliable in his career. I think you're overvaluing him, a lot.

 

That doesn't mean I love Pelfrey. I don't think there's a huge difference between the two. The reason the article seemed so "positive" is because it was framed – I thought pretty clearly – against the Correia signing. As I've already said, I prefer both Baker and Pelfrey to Correia. Had Baker been signed a week after Correia, I probably would have had a similar "Well, at least this is an improvement" reaction. You could hardly come away from what I wrote thinking I'm excited about it.

 

And yes, obviously my perspective has been altered by all the money that's been thrown around since Baker signed. I imagine that's true for a lot of people.

[TheLeviathan]

I think you're overvaluing him, a lot.

 

He's been better than Pelfrey as a major league pitcher. Dude, you cited when Pelfrey was drafted and his former prospect ranking. If you compare big league numbers - Baker has been better. And in the AL no less. If you'd like to contend differently, use stats. Many of the things you cited seemed like serious reaches to make your point. You compared him to Baker yourself in your post, because it's a very relevant comparison on many levels. You just seemed to cherry pick the positives here in contrast to cherry picking the negatives previously. I simply acknowledge there is a mixed bag for both. I come down favoring Baker significantly more because he has been a better major league pitcher. For a one year deal that's a better gamble IMO.

 

Pelfrey's biggest asset is durability, which would normally be a good thing if he was healthy. First year off a major injury neutralizes that for anyone. Putting "durability" as a positive in that mindset is pretty damn silly. Almost as silly as using draft position for a guy nearly 30 to cite potential.

[Nick Nelson]

I still think you're drastically exaggerating the degree to which I was "cherrypicking the negatives" of Baker's contract, and you've yet to prove otherwise. I was surprised to see an unexceptional pitcher who'd never been able to string together two straight healthy seasons get over $5 million guaranteed off Tommy John. That's it.

[LaBombo]

Health permitting, Pelfrey could deliver...pizza. With the league change an ERA of around 5 sounds about right. At least it's a one year deal.

 

The re-signing of Sanchez gives Detroit a rotation that our presumed 2013 'ace' Scott Diamond wouldn't make as the 5th man. Maybe now all but the most delusional 'Contend in 2013' people will finally be forced to move on.

[jokin]

Health permitting, Pelfrey could deliver...pizza. With the league change an ERA of around 5 sounds about right. At least it's a one year deal.

 

The re-signing of Sanchez gives Detroit a rotation that our presumed 2013 'ace' Scott Diamond wouldn't make as the 5th man. Maybe now all but the most delusional 'Contend in 2013' people will finally be forced to move on.

 

Some have thrown in the towel, others have "moved on" to raise the volume level of their attack on the realists who told them so previously.

[LaBombo]

Some have thrown in the towel, others have "moved on" to raise the volume level of their attack on the realists who told them so previously.

 

Did I really say "delusional"? Oops. I meant to say "wildly optimistic". It's less accurate but also much less negative. I think, anyway. And as someone who viewed 2013 as a rebuilding year before the 2012 season was over, I mostly gave up on arguing that point a while back...

[Guest USAFChief]

Health Permitting, Pelfrey Could Deliver

 

At the least, that should put a few butts in seats at TF. I didn't even know he was pregnant.

[LaBombo]

Health Permitting, Pelfrey Could Deliver

 

At the least, that should put a few butts in seats at TF. I didn't even know he was pregnant.

 

Do we need to clear a spot on the 40 for that?

[Willihammer]

Do they sell Jr mints at TF?

[TheLeviathan]

Health permitting, Pelfrey could deliver...pizza. With the league change an ERA of around 5 sounds about right. At least it's a one year deal

 

You're totally not figuring in his prospect ranking from 7 years ago. Duh.

[jun]

Don't love the move...don't hate it either....

 

would sure rather have paid baker the X-tra 1-2 Million needed compared to Pelfrey to Keep Scotty Baker himself.

 

But Pelfrey has more upside than Corriea, Blacky, Duensing, Hendriks, DeVries, and Deduno . The only exceptions i'd say are Gibson and Worley for the 2013 staff.

 

Now if AAron Hicks starts off in AAA .....for a minumum 3 months i'd be a happy guy heading into 2013...with maybe 1 more Pitcher and a little competition for T-Money Plouffe at 3B.

 

Pelfrey has more upside than Blackburn, Correia only. Hendriks and DeVries are younger. Duensing is a good bullpen guy and he is a lefty. Deduno has some good stuff, he could be effectively wild at times.

[LaBombo]

You're totally not figuring in his prospect ranking from 7 years ago. Duh.

 

AND I forgot that he now has a super-hot girlfriend. So that should improve his ERA. Maybe somebody should invent a stat that factors out girlfriends so we can predict how the gain or loss of a girlfriend would affect pitching. GiP and xGiP?