0-16 baby

[Danchat]

This team is too good to get a high draft pick, but not good enough to go on a real playoff run. 8-8 here we come baby!

 

I'd feel a lot better about our outlook if we could have let Kirk hit free agency at the end of the year (plus get a comp pick) and search for a new solution. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

This team is too good to get a high draft pick, but not good enough to go on a real playoff run. 8-8 here we come baby!

 

I'd feel a lot better about our outlook if we could have let Kirk hit free agency at the end of the year (plus get a comp pick) and search for a new solution. 

 

Like what? I don't like the Kirk signing.....but what FA looks better next year? And, would you really feel good about a team starting a rookie QB instead of a veteran?

 

Unless by outlook you mean past 2021....in which case I agree. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Like what? I don't like the Kirk signing.....but what FA looks better next year? And, would you really feel good about a team starting a rookie QB instead of a veteran?

 

Unless by outlook you mean past 2021....in which case I agree. 

 

My outlook for 2021 would be no different than it has been the last few years if Cousins (and Spielman and Zimmer) is still here. They can be one of the ten best teams, but they can't be one of the, say, six best teams, which means they're not winning it all.

 

I'll take a step back in 2021 if it means getting a shot at becoming an elite team later.

 

But it would be nice to figure out what ails the Bengals and the Chargers, because both of their rookie QBs are lighting it up but their teams are losing. At first glance it makes sense as both teams were bad last year, however, both teams have some pretty good offensive talent around the young QBs; seems like they should be winning more. Is it all just because of terrible defenses?

[Mike Sixel]

 

My outlook for 2021 would be no different than it has been the last few years if Cousins (and Spielman and Zimmer) is still here. They can be one of the ten best teams, but they can't be one of the, say, six best teams, which means they're not winning it all.

 

I'll take a step back in 2021 if it means getting a shot at becoming an elite team later.

 

But it would be nice to figure out what ails the Bengals and the Chargers, because both of their rookie QBs are lighting it up but their teams are losing. At first glance it makes sense as both teams were bad last year, however, both teams have some pretty good offensive talent around the young QBs; seems like they should be winning more. Is it all just because of terrible defenses?

 

They are both just below average in pts scored, and just on the wrong side of average of points allowed....they are "averagish" at both, but just on the wrong side of both....

[Danchat]

 

Like what? I don't like the Kirk signing.....but what FA looks better next year? And, would you really feel good about a team starting a rookie QB instead of a veteran?

 

Unless by outlook you mean past 2021....in which case I agree. 

Prescott is the only definitively better FA QB, but I'd prefer a bridge QB on a cheap deal (Fitzpatrick, even Newton). And yes, I'd much rather have a rookie than Kirk, I mean heck, Kirk is playing like a rookie this year! The easier way to open a window to winning a Super Bowl is to draft a QB and benefit from having him on a rookie deal. It's going to be really hard to bring in reinforcements the next two years to patch up the holes in our roster with Kirk's $31M and $45M cap hits. For a guy who's currently being treated like he's Christian Ponder!

 

My outlook for 2021 would be no different than it has been the last few years if Cousins (and Spielman and Zimmer) is still here. They can be one of the ten best teams, but they can't be one of the, say, six best teams, which means they're not winning it all.

 

I'll take a step back in 2021 if it means getting a shot at becoming an elite team later.

 

But it would be nice to figure out what ails the Bengals and the Chargers, because both of their rookie QBs are lighting it up but their teams are losing. At first glance it makes sense as both teams were bad last year, however, both teams have some pretty good offensive talent around the young QBs; seems like they should be winning more. Is it all just because of terrible defenses?

I can't explain the Chargers to you, they play every single opponent close and nearly beat the Bucs and Saints. They just find ways to lose the game right at the end - they've had a hard time holding a lead, which to me is more of a poor playcalling issue. 

 

Bengals' defense is very bad and it seems whenever Burrow gets the offense going, the defense chokes. They had the Browns finished in their Week 7 matchup, but the Browns somehow got 75 yards and a TD in a minute without any timeouts. They also have a bad O-line and they were missing literally all 5 starters vs the Titans, yet Burrow still moved the ball. These two are going to be fine.

[gunnarthor]

I think the Vikes have a few old key players but are generally pretty young over all. And the OL has looked better lately. Cleveland had some really nice moments.

I'm not sure if the Vikings have a replacement for Smith and he really is having another nice season but the young corners are showing promise and some of the young linemen - esp when Hunter is back next year - could be pretty good.

 

I'm not sure what to make of this team but I think it's probably more or less what we've seen from Zimmer. If they make the playoffs they will have a puncher's chance against anyone but they are unlikely to put together three straight games. But making the playoffs and knocking out the Saints again might be worth it for me.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm with Dan that they should look to swing for upside in a QB.  I think Trey Lance is gone by the time they pick (if not...get him!) but it's time to invest a 1st/2nd into a QB to develop.  Next year, given Cousins' contract and the baffling extension, would be an ideal time to do it.

 

I love Lance and, fun fact, coached against him when he was a freshman.  I wish I would've offered to be his agent that day.....

[nicksaviking]

 

I'm with Dan that they should look to swing for upside in a QB.  I think Trey Lance is gone by the time they pick (if not...get him!) but it's time to invest a 1st/2nd into a QB to develop.  Next year, given Cousins' contract and the baffling extension, would be an ideal time to do it.

 

I love Lance and, fun fact, coached against him when he was a freshman.  I wish I would've offered to be his agent that day.....

 

Obviously you'd never say no to Trevor Lawrence, but a true dual threat QB can cover up a lot of offensive holes.

 

Zimmer would absolutely have to be gone though. I don't see any way he'd stomach anything close to resembling a new age or even innovative style of offense where the QB may just take off if the defense gives him an opening.

[Dodecahedron]

It's Monday -- so we know the Vikes will find a way to look embarrassing on the national stage.

[Vanimal46]

Whelp, just your traditional hideous, sloppy Vikings Bears game at Soldier Field happening right now. The offense, no matter who the OC is, or at QB, reverts back to this unwatchable conservative play calling every year.

[TheLeviathan]

The Bears stink on offense but any win in Chicago is a good win.

[gunnarthor]

Good lord, our special teams has been awful. It would be the most Viking thing ever to make the playoffs and then lose a playoff game because of special teams.

[nicksaviking]

Geez, looking at the NFC, even if the Vikings somehow stay hot and end up 10-6, there's a good chance they're missing the playoffs. Are any of the three good NFC West teams likely to go worse than 4-3 down the stretch? Maybe. If not the Vikings will need to hold the tie breaker. 

 

Maybe the Saints completely fall apart without Brees. Or maybe another big Covid outbreak will prompt that rumored 8th team into the playoffs. 

 

Or I guess they could run the table and go 11-5, which sounds equal measures do-able and completely absurd.

[Dodecahedron]

Justin Jefferson is a great pickup and as his production increased, the Vikings started winning.

[Dodecahedron]

 

Good lord, our special teams has been awful. It would be the most Viking thing ever to make the playoffs and then lose a playoff game because of special teams.

Cordarelle lit up special teams as a Viking too. 

 

The Vikings forced a fumble on a punt return, so it wasn't all bad.

[nicksaviking]

 

Justin Jefferson is a great pickup and as his production increased, the Vikings started winning.

 

This team's reluctance to go with talent over experience killed them early in the year. Jefferson should have been starting Week 1 and Kubiak should have told Cousins he is no longer allowed to only look at his primary receiver.

 

Ezra Cleveland was a 2nd round pick, not some UDFA. What on earth could compel the team to pencil in quite possibly the two worst guards in the league ahead of him? Four games wasted.

 

I like Kyle Rudolph a lot, but why is he still the primary TE?

[TheLeviathan]

 

This team's reluctance to go with talent over experience killed them early in the year. Jefferson should have been starting Week 1 and Kubiak should have told Cousins he is no longer allowed to only look at his primary receiver.

 

Ezra Cleveland was a 2nd round pick, not some UDFA. What on earth could compel the team to pencil in quite possibly the two worst guards in the league ahead of him? Four games wasted.

 

I like Kyle Rudolph a lot, but why is he still the primary TE?

 

This has been a trend with Zimmer for awhile.  Look how long it took Harris and Wilson to get playing time.  

 

Wilson was stuck behind the husk of Ben Gedeon for what seemed like a decade.

[nicksaviking]

 

This has been a trend with Zimmer for awhile.  Look how long it took Harris and Wilson to get playing time.  

 

Wilson was stuck behind the husk of Ben Gedeon for what seemed like a decade.

 

Yeah, not to try to pigeon hole anyone, but this always seems to be the case with coaches or managers in any sport that proudly considers themselves "old school". 

 

Not only is stubbornly always riding with experience until the wheels fall off a bad on field move, but with the significant pay disparity between vets and new players, it is a significant economic drain on the club as well.

[Danchat]

 

This team's reluctance to go with talent over experience killed them early in the year. Jefferson should have been starting Week 1 and Kubiak should have told Cousins he is no longer allowed to only look at his primary receiver.

 

Ezra Cleveland was a 2nd round pick, not some UDFA. What on earth could compel the team to pencil in quite possibly the two worst guards in the league ahead of him? Four games wasted.

 

I like Kyle Rudolph a lot, but why is he still the primary TE?

It has been annoying, but I can understand why they wanted to be slow with the rookies when they had a shortened first offseason. But as Levi said, there have been times where the better [or even potentially better] player has been left on the bench. I get giving Samia, a 2019 4th rounder a shot, but they really need to be OK with benching guys without injuries happening.

 

Irv got injured in the Lions game and missed the Bears game, but before that he was playing about the same snap % as Rudolph, somewhere between 60-70%. So neither have been the 'primary' guy, but they should try to target Smith on more passing plays. 

 

And all that Bisi Johnson hype has been for nothing! Turns out a mediocre training camp for Jefferson was not a red flag, now is having an insane rookie year. I need to stop putting any kind of value to training camp hype.

[DocBauer]

My opinions are based on YouTube highlights and various reports and observations as I've only been able to watch a couple of games in my market.

 

1] CB has been a disaster due to injury. Did anyone expect more? What has surprised me is some very good play here and there. There is real potential there between about 4-7 kids who are doing their best.

 

2] DL is staring to show something. Not great, but showing something. Thrust in to roles, are we starting to see development?

 

3] Wilson at LB is looking like a keeper. We need depth. Is Barr out do to $?

 

4] How in the hell can't an offensive "genius" like Kubiak find a way to develop a 3rd WR? Johnson has disappeared after a solid rookie season. Beebe appears to be average at best.

 

5] OL has improved. Cleveland has looked great at G. I thought he was supposed to be LT. Fine! Keep him there if you believe in him there. But you still need a future LT to replace Reiff at some point. Samia is an All American wasted draft choice if he doesn't get himself together SOON!

 

Dozier has been OK. He's a solid backup. Where is Udoh?

 

I'm exited they won a few games. But when you have a questionable OL and a supposed genuious OC and your whole offense centers around an amazing RB and a decent QB, and you can't find a single 3rd receiving option, I'm starting to think we have the wrong OC.

 

Seems Zimmer has never recovered from Turner walking away, IMO.

[Danchat]

 

My opinions are based on YouTube highlights and various reports and observations as I've only been able to watch a couple of games in my market.

1] CB has been a disaster due to injury. Did anyone expect more? What has surprised me is some very good play here and there. There is real potential there between about 4-7 kids who are doing their best.

2] DL is staring to show something. Not great, but showing something. Thrust in to roles, are we starting to see development?

3] Wilson at LB is looking like a keeper. We need depth. Is Barr out do to $?

4] How in the hell can't an offensive "genius" like Kubiak find a way to develop a 3rd WR? Johnson has disappeared after a solid rookie season. Beebe appears to be average at best.

5] OL has improved. Cleveland has looked great at G. I thought he was supposed to be LT. Fine! Keep him there if you believe in him there. But you still need a future LT to replace Reiff at some point. Samia is an All American wasted draft choice if he doesn't get himself together SOON!

Dozier has been OK. He's a solid backup. Where is Udoh?

I'm exited they won a few games. But when you have a questionable OL and a supposed genuious OC and your whole offense centers around an amazing RB and a decent QB, and you can't find a single 3rd receiving option, I'm starting to think we have the wrong OC.

Seems Zimmer has never recovered from Turner walking away, IMO.

3) Barr can be cut/traded for just a $2.6M cap hit in 2021 if designated as a post-June move. His 2021 cap hit is around $15M, but $12.4M of it can be saved by moving him. That seems like a no-brainer move, as Wilson has replaced Barr and has been a better playmaker. Problem is, Wilson's a free agent in 2021.

 

4) He's not using the 3rd WR very much. Beebe, who's been the 3rd WR since Week 3, has only played about 20-30% of the snaps every week. He's not very good, but they're also just not using him. He's instead used 2 TE packages liberally, with Rudolph and Smith Jr. both playing over 70% of the snaps every game.

 

5) Dozier has been a pretty bad starter and needs to be replaced, and I have no hope for Samia as a prospect. With Cleveland panning out at guard, I wonder if the team still sees him as the future LT or not. He definitely profiled as one originally. Udoh has been a weekly inactive and they don't seem to want to use him at guard. With Cleveland hurt, Brett Jones is going to start at RG tomorrow.

 

Kubiak's been doing a pretty great job with what he's been given IMO. We have the #1 yardage per play in the NFL with a limited QB and suspect O-line. Sure, I'd like to see Irv get more targets and like to see more depth at WR, but we've got the current best HB in the league and a dynamite 1-2 WR combo. Kubiak has utilized them well thus far.

 

 

[DocBauer]

3) Barr can be cut/traded for just a $2.6M cap hit in 2021 if designated as a post-June move. His 2021 cap hit is around $15M, but $12.4M of it can be saved by moving him. That seems like a no-brainer move, as Wilson has replaced Barr and has been a better playmaker. Problem is, Wilson's a free agent in 2021.

 

4) He's not using the 3rd WR very much. Beebe, who's been the 3rd WR since Week 3, has only played about 20-30% of the snaps every week. He's not very good, but they're also just not using him. He's instead used 2 TE packages liberally, with Rudolph and Smith Jr. both playing over 70% of the snaps every game.

 

5) Dozier has been a pretty bad starter and needs to be replaced, and I have no hope for Samia as a prospect. With Cleveland panning out at guard, I wonder if the team still sees him as the future LT or not. He definitely profiled as one originally. Udoh has been a weekly inactive and they don't seem to want to use him at guard. With Cleveland hurt, Brett Jones is going to start at RG tomorrow.

 

Kubiak's been doing a pretty great job with what he's been given IMO. We have the #1 yardage per play in the NFL with a limited QB and suspect O-line. Sure, I'd like to see Irv get more targets and like to see more depth at WR, but we've got the current best HB in the league and a dynamite 1-2 WR combo. Kubiak has utilized them well thus far.

Great rebuttle post! May I do the same?

 

3] Zimmer LOVES Barr even though I don't think he has EVER used him to full affect, which drives me crazy as he is a defensive first coach. Does ,Spielman have enough guts to just tell Zim he's gone? He'd better. Because I agree Wilson is as good or better. As to Wilson being a FA, I'm going to believe IT tbere is truly a cut in the cap, it will lower his earning potential. If they can save $ on Barr, that should also help. (The whole cap hit finances have always confused the he'll out of me, to be honest). The Vikings need to part ways with Barr, keep Wilson, and draft a couple LB with their 12-14 expected picks to add depth and competition.

 

4] I take ZERO solace in not using a 3rd WR very often. I LOVE ME TE USAGE! Always have. In fact, I think I've seen enough of Conklin and even Dillon in limited usage and preseason action to say they have UNDER UTILIZED the talent on hand. And I grant you the current scheme on offense lends itself to a "defensive" and efficient mindset of ground and pound. But in today's NFL, that only gets you so far. I love good defense and still believe it leads to winning and even championships. But you also have to move the football and score. For Johnson to suddenly disappear...especially after camp speak told us how good he was looking...and for Beebe to suddenly "emerge" as the 3rd WR speaks about a lack of creativity. The Vikings have lacked a 3rd WR option for years now. At some point, even with a good running game, you have to fling the ball and gain chunks of yards. Even good TE's can only do so much. You need to pressure the other team with real threats. We just don't have that right now. And it's going to bite us in the butt eventually.

 

5] Again, I've seen so few games broadcast in the Omaha market this year. I read and I watch the YouTube abbreviated versions of the game. I don't tbat Dozier has been a disaster, but he does seem to help the ground game work. But that's not enough. While not enchanted with him, I'm OK with him as a reserve. But agree he should not be starting! Samia appears to have been a fugly draft choice. No clue how you can be all this, all that, etc, with athletic ability and just look and play that badly. The Vikes make it sound like they actually believe in his potential. I call B.S. and say he's gone next year.

 

Cleveland? He's looked solid to great at G so far with potential. But wasn't he supposed to be the LT of the future? I'm confused there. Reiff has rebounded to play decently this year. But he is no long term fixture and salary could make him gone next season. But if Cleveland looks this good at G, do you move him? Kind of a messy situation to be sure.

 

The Udoh situation befuddled me. HUGE, powerful, athletic smaller school prospect with potential. Kid looks so good in preseason they keep him on the roster. He looks good the 1 game he gets to start. And I get he's still raw and there were no off-season camps and no preseason games. But he sits on the bench and Dozier and Samia get to actually start games???

 

I still think Reiff is gone unless he again re-works his deal. Even if the Vikings drafted Cleveland to be a LT and move him back there, this team still needs 2 OL via the draft or FA to put together a quality OL.

 

You say Kubiak has done a good job with what he's been given. I'm not going to completely disagree with you. But for the most part, he is totally in charge of the offense. He has "his guy" in charge of the OL. He is considered an offensive guru of sorts. And he can't find a way to open the offense enough to utilize the talent he has at TE and WR to find a threat or two?

 

OR, is Zim holding him back? Just a thought.

[Danchat]

 

Great rebuttle post! May I do the same?

5] Again, I've seen so few games broadcast in the Omaha market this year. I read and I watch the YouTube abbreviated versions of the game. I don't tbat Dozier has been a disaster, but he does seem to help the ground game work. But that's not enough. While not enchanted with him, I'm OK with him as a reserve. But agree he should not be starting! Samia appears to have been a fugly draft choice. No clue how you can be all this, all that, etc, with athletic ability and just look and play that badly. The Vikes make it sound like they actually believe in his potential. I call B.S. and say he's gone next year.

Cleveland? He's looked solid to great at G so far with potential. But wasn't he supposed to be the LT of the future? I'm confused there. Reiff has rebounded to play decently this year. But he is no long term fixture and salary could make him gone next season. But if Cleveland looks this good at G, do you move him? Kind of a messy situation to be sure.

The Udoh situation befuddled me. HUGE, powerful, athletic smaller school prospect with potential. Kid looks so good in preseason they keep him on the roster. He looks good the 1 game he gets to start. And I get he's still raw and there were no off-season camps and no preseason games. But he sits on the bench and Dozier and Samia get to actually start games???

I still think Reiff is gone unless he again re-works his deal. Even if the Vikings drafted Cleveland to be a LT and move him back there, this team still needs 2 OL via the draft or FA to put together a quality OL.

You say Kubiak has done a good job with what he's been given. I'm not going to completely disagree with you. But for the most part, he is totally in charge of the offense. He has "his guy" in charge of the OL. He is considered an offensive guru of sorts. And he can't find a way to open the offense enough to utilize the talent he has at TE and WR to find a threat or two?

OR, is Zim holding him back? Just a thought.

Udoh played RT all of training camp and never got a crack at guard. It was actually Aviante Collins rotating with the 1st team vs Dozier in training camp, oddly enough. Samia was mostly stuck with the 3rd team (which was a big red flag in hindsight). Udoh is a decent prospect, but they've pigeon-holed him at RT, which is owned by O'Neill, who I imagine gets extended at some point in 2021.

 

Reiff has been really good, which makes him hard to move. I actually wanted to see O'Neill get a crack at LT when we were 1-5 just to see if he could, but that's not going to happen now.

 

I dunno about the TE/3rd WRs part... the first couple weeks, Cousins was spamming the ball to Thielen non-stop, but lately he's been throwing it to the other guys a bit more. My biggest complaint early on was that Cook wasn't getting enough targets, but now he's been getting them. Cousins has also never targeted Rudy very much over his career here, for some reason.

 

Now that I think about it further, it may be related to the fact that we've run the ball so much, there haven't been many attempts to go around. And throwing the ball to Jefferson as much as possible is a great strategy. But I do hope they can find a better 3rd WR - maybe try Tajae Sharpe? He's getting paid $1M to sit on the bench every week. Maybe Alexander Hollins after he had a great training camp? Dan Chisena still has a roster spot for some reason despite being a poor special teamer.

[Vanimal46]

It’s no secret that a Zimmer led team plays down to inferior teams. I had a bad feeling this upcoming “easy” schedule to elevate us to the playoff picture had trap games in there. We found one today.

[Danchat]

 

It’s no secret that a Zimmer led team plays down to inferior teams. I had a bad feeling this upcoming “easy” schedule to elevate us to the playoff picture had trap games in there. We found one today.

Before this year, Zimmer had the best record against teams with records below .500 (only loss to one from 2018-2019 was against Buffalo), but now that seems to be out the window. I could see them losing their game to the Jaguars but winning against the Bucs, with how weird this season has gone. 7-9 or 8-8 seems likely right now.

[Mike Sixel]

Pathetic. Just awful defense. No pressure at all. Defensive genius my ass.

[Vanimal46]

Before this year, Zimmer had the best record against teams with records below .500 (only loss to one from 2018-2019 was against Buffalo), but now that seems to be out the window. I could see them losing their game to the Jaguars but winning against the Bucs, with how weird this season has gone. 7-9 or 8-8 seems likely right now.

Yeah I’m sure historically Zimmer has beat up the bad teams, except for his annual total system failure game. Last year it was against the 2 backup QBs. Buffalo 2 years ago, the Fat Cats Get Slaughtered game 3-4 years ago.

 

I certainly don’t see them running the table to finish 10-6. Going 5-1 to finish 9-7 feels like a stretch too. I concur this feels like a lost 7-9 season. And we’ll be just as confused what to do to fix it this offseason.

[nicksaviking]

With four QBs already off the board: "And with the 16th pick in the 2021 NFL draft, the Minnesota Vikings select....."

[Mike Sixel]

 

With four QBs already off the board: "And with the 16th pick in the 2021 NFL draft, the Minnesota Vikings select....."

 

DT....put your money on it. Unless a DE or OT drops. I guess CB or S is in play also. No WR, RB, TE, or OG at this point. No LB. 

[nicksaviking]

 

DT....put your money on it. Unless a DE or OT drops. I guess CB or S is in play also. No WR, RB, TE, or OG at this point. No LB. 

 

I hope Dallas makes the Vikings an offer for Zimmer and the Wilfs just say, screw it, let's just clean house regardless of the record.