0-16 baby

[TheLeviathan]

So this team is going nowhere, we can only hope they'll pick top 10 and have a shot at a transformative player.  But these are some things to watch:

 

1. I was very opposed to drafting a WR, but Jefferson looks dynamic as all get out.  This team has the offensive weapons to be a SB contender right now.

 

2. Get Irv more involved.  Let's see if we have a potential weapon there.

 

3. Let the kid CBs play.  In a lost season let them learn, fail, and get better.  (While we're at it....play up on WRs every once in a damn while!)

 

4. Play Lynch, Wonnom, Watts, Cleveland, Samia, Udoh, etc.  Let these guys get real reps.

[Vanimal46]

Irv Smith's usage this season has been baffling so far. Whatever happened to using him in the slot and finding creative ways to get him the ball? Has he taken a step back in his 2nd year? 

I agree with Lev. This season should be focused on the growth of the young players on roster. Since every OL seems to start off horribly before turning it around, let's get the lumps out of the way now with Cleveland, Udoh, and others. Shamar Stephen has no future with this team, so let Lynch or Watts take his reps. 

 

If they were forward thinking, they would also find trade partners for one of Harris or Smith too. They can't head into 2021 with 2 of the highest paid safeties in the league again. 

[gunnarthor]

Agree on Jefferson and the offense. Still concerned about the interior line but Bradbury has looked pretty good. The Colts game was ugly but they topped 30 in the other three. There's some hope there. Play calling sometimes makes me want to light my hair on fire.

 

Defense. Man. Hunter and Barr were bigger than I realized but the interior D-line is just bad. And Kendricks isn't really made for fighting off blockers up the middle. I think the young corners might be something in the long run but growing pains will hurt. I dunno. Other than playing better, I'm not sure what they can do to be better. And with the schedule being so tough, it's hard to see this team finishing better than 7-9.

[nicksaviking]

 

And with the schedule being so tough, it's hard to see this team finishing better than 7-9.

 

7-9 with the 16th overall pick and a GM who likes to trade back, not up, so as to get himself some sweet extra 6th and 7th round picks.

 

Sounds about exactly right.

[DocBauer]

So this team is going nowhere, we can only hope they'll pick top 10 and have a shot at a transformative player.  But these are some things to watch:

 

1. I was very opposed to drafting a WR, but Jefferson looks dynamic as all get out.  This team has the offensive weapons to be a SB contender right now.

 

2. Get Irv more involved.  Let's see if we have a potential weapon there.

 

3. Let the kid CBs play.  In a lost season let them learn, fail, and get better.  (While we're at it....play up on WRs every once in a damn while!)

 

4. Play Lynch, Wonnom, Watts, Cleveland, Samia, Udoh, etc.  Let these guys get real reps.

THIS 100%. I stated in the off-season thread this was going to be a rebuilding year despite the presence of some very good talent.

 

Since I like this post so much, I want to comment on the various points. But please keep in mind that in the Omaha market, the only game broadcast was the Gab debacle, so I am talking slightly out of my backside from highlights and articles.

 

1] Jefferson looks even better than could be expected. But how in hell can this team just NOT find a 3rd WR? I mean, Johnson actually looked like a late round find last year and supposedly bad a great camp. So far, nothing. Beebe seemed like a find a good story initially, but why is he on the roster? NOTHING from the 3rd WR spot yet again! Is it play calling? Hollins, on the PS offers at least some potential. Good enough to have been activated last season. Osborn was worthy of a draft choice and has some skills. You mean to tell me we can't find ONE GUY to be at least a semi-decent 3rd WR option here?

 

I can't begin to tell you how much of a fan of Rudolph I am as a person and a clutch, smart player. But he also can't stretch a defense if his hair was on fire. Smith and Conklin have similar size and length and have far better quickness and speed. Both have shown flashes. But both are invisible at the moment.

 

2] You have no choice but to let the kids play at CB. That's all you have! And no matter coach speak, they KNEW they were in a re-build based solely on CB, if nothing else. Play the kids, rotate the kids, bench a kid for a game, whatever, but toss them out there and let it sort itself out for the rest of the season and re-examine when it's all done.

 

3] From the rushing numbers, I'm guessing Samia is an OK or good run blocker. From what little I've seen and what I've heard, he's a revolving door as a pass blocker. But either he was a wasted 4th round pick, 2nd team All American, or you stick with him and see. Is Elflein really any better? Weird off-season and ramp up or not, I'm still stunned Udoh hasn't been moved to G before now. Or do they really like him at RT and move O'Neil to LT? Then why draft Cleveland? However you do it, just make sure Udoh and Cleveland get actual game reps to get ready for 2021.

 

NT looked to be solid before Pierce opted out. Not a lot you can do about that. And Stephen moving to NT made the most sense. He sure as hell isn't a 3 technique DT! But is Johnson ever going to step up and do ANYTHING? I thought I saw some flashes last year. Let him play and see if he bas a future or cut bait. And as !evil stated, let Lynch and Watts play. At least there is potential there!

 

Nice to see Wonnom is getting some reps at least. EXTREMELY disappointed Willekes got injured. I think he has a future as a sort of Robison type player. (Smart, high effort player with better athleticism than given credit for). Somebody tell me what Yarbrough is doing on the roster?

 

Play these kids you drafted in a rebuild season and let them gain experience! You aren't going anywhere this year. And for goodness sake, if the offensive part of your team is the best part right now, do SOMETHING to develop your young TE on roster and find ONE GUY at WR worth keeping around.

[TheLeviathan]

Irv getting the ball, Lynch getting a push up the middle on pass rushing situations, dominating in Seattle....holy crap!

 

[TheLeviathan]

LOL....Vikings.

[Vanimal46]

 

The defense doesn’t have what it takes to win this year. I was happy to see Lynch get some reps and sack Wilson. Eric Wilson had a big game...

 

Tonight’s game is exactly why you pay Russell Wilson elite money. And why you don’t pay Kirk that kind of money.

[flpmagikat]

The end of that game was hilarious to me. Not a Vikings fan, but definitely not a Seattle fan either; I empathize with you guys that are though. It reminded me of watching the Twins in the playoffs, and the Seahawks are kinda becoming to the Vikes what the Yanks are to the Twins. They start off looking so promising, scoring first and feeling like this might just be the game that turns it around. And of course they find a way to choke at the very end, but everyone knew when Wilson got the ball back that they were gonna march down the field to win it. It was inevitable.

 

Can someone with a better idea of football strategy tell me why they wouldn't go for 3 when they were in the redzone and could have made it an 8 point game?

[Vanimal46]

Can someone with a better idea of football strategy tell me why they wouldn't go for 3 when they were in the redzone and could have made it an 8 point game?

The Vikings had 200 yards rushing at the time, and 1 yard separated them from not having to give Russell Wilson the ball the rest of the game. Or at the very least, make it a 2 score ballgame. Going for the FG makes it a 1 score ballgame. And given how awful their 2 minute defense has been all season, I don’t blame Zimmer for trying to win right there.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

I am fine with the decision to go for it too...

 

But then, I am used to losing.

 

Still, I know it is a fine distinction, I prefer to play to win rather than just not to lose, even if the latter is safer.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I am fine with the decision to go for it too...

 

But then, I am used to losing.

 

Still, I know it is a fine distinction, I prefer to play to win rather than just not to lose, even if the latter is safer.

 

IMO that was the call to fit the "play to win" mentality.

 

The playcall had 6 wide open if Mattison put his head up.

[Mike Sixel]

 

7-9 with the 16th overall pick and a GM who likes to trade back, not up, so as to get himself some sweet extra 6th and 7th round picks.

 

Sounds about exactly right.

 

This site needs a hate button.

[Mike Sixel]

PFF says Dru Samia is on pace to be the worst OL in 15 years........holy heck.

[DocBauer]

PFF says Dru Samia is on pace to be the worst OL in 15 years........holy heck.

I'm a little blind on Samia and how bad he has been. I wasn't able to watch the Seahawks game and when I watch the 10 minute You Tube abbreviated game, I don't get to see enough of the line play to know exactly what is going on play by play. I "hear" he's a pretty good run blocker but so bad pass blocking he gets bench pressed a couple times again. (And the holding calls...yeesh)!

 

About came unglued when I read coach speak comments from Kubiak the other day about how there are growing pains with a young OL but how hard he is working, etc, etc.

[DocBauer]

Just a couple thoughts before we go for win #2 against Atlanta:

 

1] How can this team just NOT find a 3rd WR option? I thought Johnson might be it after a solid rookie season but so far nope. Was hoping Sharpe would enjoy a change of scenery and take a step forward as an option, but again, so far nope. Why is Beebe on the team again?

 

2] It's painful to say for a Zimmer lead team, but the defense is a bigger problem than 3rd WR or the OL. But is anyone really surprised? Pierce might be a good replacement at NT but opted out. (For good reason I will add). And we don't have a 3 technique DT. Plus, rebuilding CB on the fly and now Hunter and Barr out.

 

Honestly, I expected this. I find myself pleasantly/ hooeful surprised by the offense, despite it's obvious areas of need. But tbe defense came in to the season in obvious re-build mode. Not that you have a choice, but play and rotate all the kids at CB and let them learn and gain experience. But for goodness and future sake, let Watts and Lynch play as much as possible at DT.

[gunnarthor]

Doesn't look like we'll get win #2 today ...

[ashbury]

Is it too late to go back to dreams of 0-16?

[USAFChief]

Zimmer should be let go before nightfall.

 

The man wasn't, isnt, and never will be HC material.

 

Some things are so obvious.

[Vanimal46]

3 Falcons TDs that went untouched by the Vikings defense. That’s the look of a defeated team who tuned out their coaches. Nothing will change until Zimmer, Spielman, and Kirk are no longer with the organization.

[nicksaviking]

 

Just a couple thoughts before we go for win #2 against Atlanta:

1] How can this team just NOT find a 3rd WR option? I thought Johnson might be it after a solid rookie season but so far nope. Was hoping Sharpe would enjoy a change of scenery and take a step forward as an option, but again, so far nope. Why is Beebe on the team again?

2] It's painful to say for a Zimmer lead team, but the defense is a bigger problem than 3rd WR or the OL. But is anyone really surprised? Pierce might be a good replacement at NT but opted out. (For good reason I will add). And we don't have a 3 technique DT. Plus, rebuilding CB on the fly and now Hunter and Barr out.

 

 

1.) Well I doubt we'd know if the Vikings did have a third option at WR because it's near impossible to get Cousin's off of his first read. He knows where the ball is going before it's even snapped. Of course the other team's DBs have figured that out too.

 

2.) I'm not sure if it's Spielman or Zimmer who insists on blowing early round picks on CB nearly every year, but it's a terrible waste of draft capital. Just some terrible personnel decisions. Another one: if this team was so confident in Eric Wilson, why did they give Barr so much money to stay?

 

My biggest fear is that Zimmer is canned but Spielman gets to stay and he won't tear this thing down and try to start over like he should, but instead try to save his job with half measures and cobble together another middle of the road season.

[Vanimal46]

 

1.) Well I doubt we'd know if the Vikings did have a third option at WR because it's near impossible to get Cousin's off of his first read. He knows where the ball is going before it's even snapped. Of course the other team's DBs have figured that out too.

 

2.) I'm not sure if it's Spielman or Zimmer who insists on blowing early round picks on CB nearly every year, but it's a terrible waste of draft capital. Just some terrible personnel decisions. Another one: if this team was so confident in Eric Wilson, why did they give Barr so much money to stay?

 

My biggest fear is that Zimmer is canned but Spielman gets to stay and he won't tear this thing down and try to start over like he should, but instead try to save his job with half measures and cobble together another middle of the road season.

Zimmer and Spielman appear to be tied at the hip with their contracts, so I think both leave or stay. I don't know how Spielman can stay after this year... Considering the Vikings had a clear out from Kirk Cousins after 2020. Now we'll have to pay $41 million in dead cap space to release him thanks to that inexplicable extension. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Zimmer and Spielman appear to be tied at the hip with their contracts, so I think both leave or stay. I don't know how Spielman can stay after this year... Considering the Vikings had a clear out from Kirk Cousins after 2020. Now we'll have to pay $41 million in dead cap space to release him thanks to that inexplicable extension. 

 

Yeah, Spielman keeps doubling down on players that at some point make him look foolish, but then show a glimmer of redemption that he thinks makes him look brilliant. Cousins, Barr, Rhodes, Griffen, Cook, Rudolph.

 

However, I thought the cap hit was 31M next year which they are stuck with regardless, but if they cut him they at least get out of the 45M hit in 2022.

 

Either way, that 2022 figure is injury guaranteed and the OL is bad and Cousin's isn't smart about how long to hold onto the ball. They should dump all three, QB, coach and GM ASAP; package deal.

[stringer bell]

The pity of this is that the Vikings have superior "skill position" players on offense (Theilen, Jefferson and Cook). The triggerman is just not that good and the brutal fact is that quarterback is far and away the most crucial position in pro football. Cousins will have better games and I still think Minnesota will be break-even depending on how they do against their division rivals. With the expanded playoffs that might even net a postseason spot, but not serious championship status.

 

The defense isn't scaring anyone despite some good talent. By the time the defense can be rebuilt, Cook and Theilen will be past their prime.

[Vanimal46]

Yeah, Spielman keeps doubling down on players that at some point make him look foolish, but then show a glimmer of redemption that he thinks makes him look brilliant. Cousins, Barr, Rhodes, Griffen, Cook, Rudolph.

 

However, I thought the cap hit was 31M next year which they are stuck with regardless, but if they cut him they at least get out of the 45M hit in 2022.

 

Either way, that 2022 figure is injury guaranteed and the OL is bad and Cousin's isn't smart about how long to hold onto the ball. They should dump all three, QB, coach and GM ASAP; package deal.

The Vikings have an out if they release Cousins by the 3rd day of the new league year, so March 2021. If they release him before then his 2022 salary isn’t guaranteed but the dead cap hit will be $41 million instead of $31 million to account for the $10 signing bonus on the books.

 

This article has been handy so far to learn what the Vikings options are with Kirk.

 

https://overthecap.com/what-can-the-vikings-do-with-kirk-cousins/

[DocBauer]

1.) Well I doubt we'd know if the Vikings did have a third option at WR because it's near impossible to get Cousin's off of his first read. He knows where the ball is going before it's even snapped. Of course the other team's DBs have figured that out too.

 

2.) I'm not sure if it's Spielman or Zimmer who insists on blowing early round picks on CB nearly every year, but it's a terrible waste of draft capital. Just some terrible personnel decisions. Another one: if this team was so confident in Eric Wilson, why did they give Barr so much money to stay?

 

My biggest fear is that Zimmer is canned but Spielman gets to stay and he won't tear this thing down and try to start over like he should, but instead try to save his job with half measures and cobble together another middle of the road season.

Some good points! May I address them?

 

1] I think the play calling is part of the problem as well. Cousins running for his life sure doesn't help.

 

2] I also have issues with over drafting certain spots, which would primarily be CB it seems. You have 7 rounds for a reason. Not to mention FA and rookie FA to build your roster. And I have also been frustrated with some of the extensions the last couple of years. At some point, you absolutely have to balance your entire roster, trust in your scouts/coaches/GM, and unfortunately let someone go for the good of the team and the entire roster.

 

I don't know the inner workings of the Vikings when it comes to draft selections and the such. I'm not sure any of us knows. But it has always been my impression that the bead coach, Zimmer in this case, makes the final call. The GM, Spielman along with his staff, put together the board, accumulate picks, etc, and give the head coach what he wants/needs.

 

I'm not saying I dislike Zimmer, say he's doing a bad job, or should be fired. BUT, if we're going to lay blame at someone's feet, IMO, it has to be Zimmer. Generally speaking, I think Spielman has done a fine job. I applaud collecting draft picks for the ability to move up when you target someone in a round, as well as having multiple selections to have more bullets in your roster building "gun". The more talented bodies you have at your disposal the better, right?

 

While the Vikes have certainly missed on a few guys...but everyone does...and I have been perplexed by a few mid round choices, they have far more hits than misses. The Vikings under Spielman, have done very well in late round selections and rookie FA. Last time I looked/read, they were amongst the top teams in the league for roster construction being drafted or signed initially by the primary team.

 

Now maybe Spielman has been the trigger guy all along. And maybe Zimmer has wanted to do things differently and Rick has just told him "no, you got this one, the rest is up to me". But it just doesn't feel that way to me.

[Mike Sixel]

They will have 3 good years, and 4 bad years with Zimmer at the helm. That is completely unacceptable, given the assets the Wilfs have given him and Spielman. They have to go.

[gunnarthor]

I'd probably keep Spielman over Zimmer at this point. I liked Zimmer, thought he was a fine coach and certainly better than Tice, Childress, etc that we've been forced to watch. But it's probably time to move on.

 

Cousins is what he is. A top 15 QB but not a top 10. Not elite by any means but if the rest of your team is good enough, you can win with him. He's overpaid, I suppose, but that's on the Vikings and I generally don't blame labor for getting paid. Cousins needs to play better but it's realistic to expect that he will. He's not this bad. 

 

I agree that play-calling has been strange and sometimes panicky. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

cobble together another middle of the road season.

In a way, you could say the Vikings current season is "middle of the road" too:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu5hzc2Mei4

[Vanimal46]

 

The dismantling of the roster is beginning. Next up, I would like to see one of Harris or Smith traded. And if anyone wants to take Reiff or Rudolph off our hands, I’m all for it.