Article: Is Lame Duck Gardy Good as Gone?

[johnnydakota]

Is Little Nicky Punto returning to the Gardy party ,For the farewell tour?

[Top Gun]

According to FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal, the Dodgers are likely to trade infielders Nick Punto and Juan Uribe.

 

Skip Schumaker was acquired via trade from the Cardinals on Wednesday afternoon and is expected to share time at second base next year with Mark Ellis. That doesn't leave much room for Punto, who is also behind Hanley Ramirez, Dee Gordon and Justin Sellers on the depth chart at shortstop. Uribe, meanwhile, has posted a wretched .199/.262/.289 batting line over the past two seasons. The Dodgers might as well just cut him.

Related: Juan Uribe

 

Source: FOX Sports

[jmlease1]

Gardy did run Garza & JJ Hardy out of town. He's not responsible for the terrible return, but he is the guy who didn't want the SS who could hit for power and played good defense because he wasn't fast enough.

 

Gardy's the guy who played Revere in RF, Span in CF, and Willingham in LF because it was where the veterans Span & Willingham liked to play, despite it being blindingly obvious that the best defensive alignment for the team was Span in LF, Revere in CF, and Willingham in RF.

 

Gardy's the guy whose batting order has been baffling, playing no-hit guys in the 2-hole because they had "speed" or just played 2B.

 

Gardy's the guy who gets kicked out of games because he can't control himself.

 

Look, he's not a BAD manager. But he's not a great one either. And he doesn't seem to be adding a lot of value to the club.

[chagen]

I would rather see Ryan and Pohlad gone.

 

Couldn't agree more Pohlad would be #1 on my list

[chagen]

I would rather see Ryan and Pohlad gone.

 

Couldn't agree more especially Pohlad!

[CDog]

Gardy did run Garza & JJ Hardy out of town. He's not responsible for the terrible return, but he is the guy who didn't want the SS who could hit for power and played good defense because he wasn't fast enough.

 

Gardy's the guy who played Revere in RF, Span in CF, and Willingham in LF because it was where the veterans Span & Willingham liked to play, despite it being blindingly obvious that the best defensive alignment for the team was Span in LF, Revere in CF, and Willingham in RF.

 

Gardy's the guy whose batting order has been baffling, playing no-hit guys in the 2-hole because they had "speed" or just played 2B.

 

Gardy's the guy who gets kicked out of games because he can't control himself.

 

Look, he's not a BAD manager. But he's not a great one either. And he doesn't seem to be adding a lot of value to the club.

 

When your top four knocks against him range from "speculation" to "pure fiction," I'd say that's actually a pretty ringing endorsement.

[gunnarthor]

When your top four knocks against him range from "speculation" to "pure fiction," I'd say that's actually a pretty ringing endorsement.

 

Well said.

[Craig Arko]

I would rather see Ryan and Pohlad gone.

 

Couldn't agree more Pohlad would be #1 on my list

 

 

Well, come up with the dough and make them an offer.

[ThePuck]

When your top four knocks against him range from "speculation" to "pure fiction," I'd say that's actually a pretty ringing endorsement.

 

Gardenhire reiterated what he and Smith have continually said this winter in that Casilla will get an opportunity to compete for one of the starting middle-infield jobs, even if Hardy remains in the mix. And while Casilla can also play both positions, Gardenhire indicated that he prefers him at shortstop.

 

 

"I have always said, for me, I think he moved really well at shortstop," Gardenhire said, "I think he's very acrobatic. I think he's very athletic. He can go get the ball and throw from all kinds of angles. I think he's comfortable coming in and getting the ball rather than waiting on it.''

 

'The Twins have said throughout the offseason that one of their goals has been to add speed to their lineup, and the one area where they felt they could do that was in the middle infield. '

 

In speaking about the trade yesterday general manager Bill Smith made it very clear that the move was made largely because Ron Gardenhire wants to add more speed to the lineup and Hardy, despite his excellent range defensively, is one of the slowest shortstops in baseball.

[CDog]

Gardenhire reiterated what he and Smith have continually said this winter in that Casilla will get an opportunity to compete for one of the starting middle-infield jobs, even if Hardy remains in the mix. And while Casilla can also play both positions, Gardenhire indicated that he prefers him at shortstop.

 

 

"I have always said, for me, I think he moved really well at shortstop," Gardenhire said, "I think he's very acrobatic. I think he's very athletic. He can go get the ball and throw from all kinds of angles. I think he's comfortable coming in and getting the ball rather than waiting on it.''

 

'The Twins have said throughout the offseason that one of their goals has been to add speed to their lineup, and the one area where they felt they could do that was in the middle infield. '

 

In speaking about the trade yesterday general manager Bill Smith made it very clear that the move was made largely because Ron Gardenhire wants to add more speed to the lineup and Hardy, despite his excellent range defensively, is one of the slowest shortstops in baseball.

 

JJ Hardy home runs in 2009 and 2010: 17...combined. SLG in 2009: 0.357 (average was 0.418). SLG in 2010: 0.394 (average was 0.403). ISO in 2009: 0.128 (average was 0.155). ISO in 2010: 0.126 (average was 0.145). Would you like to point out that sometimes a 2B has batted second so that naturally means they batted there "just because" of it? Cuz that would be a good play here, too...I guess.

[ThePuck]

JJ Hardy home runs in 2009 and 2010: 17...combined. SLG in 2009: 0.357 (average was 0.418). SLG in 2010: 0.394 (average was 0.403). ISO in 2009: 0.128 (average was 0.155). ISO in 2010: 0.126 (average was 0.145). Would you like to point out that sometimes a 2B has batted second so that naturally means they batted there "just because" of it? Cuz that would be a good play here, too...I guess.

 

Why is everyone so eager to jump on someone around here...hold carp. All I did was provide some info to suggest Gardy did have quite a bit to say about Hardy being traded. Does what I provided suggest he did? Isn't the point of disccsuion an attempt to get to the truth, or is it more important to be right?

[CDog]

Why is everyone so eager to jump on someone around here...hold carp. All I did was provide some info to suggest Gardy did have quite a bit to say about Hardy being traded. Does what I provided suggest he did? Isn't the point of disccsuion an attempt to get to the truth, or is it more important to be right?

 

What you did is try to show that the sliver of truth was true, while ignoring the part that was garbage. That's also a fancy way of exaggerating, fabricating, lying...whichever floats your boat.

[ThePuck]

What you did is try to show that the sliver of truth was true, while ignoring the part that was garbage. That's also a fancy way of exaggerating, fabricating, lying...whichever floats your boat.

 

I provided information from the Twins News site concerning one part the list. That's all I did. I never said everything the original poster wrote was true, I just felt that one part was true based on what I had read and I shared the info I had. If you feel, after reading that, that Gardy didn't have a big hand in Hardy being moved, fine; however, assuming I was exaggerating, lying or whatever, that's crap.

[CDog]

I provided information from the Twins News site concerning one part the list. That's all I did. I never said everything the original poster wrote was true, I just felt that one part was true based on what I had read and I shared the info I had. If you feel, after reading that, that Gardy didn't have a big hand in Hardy being moved, fine; however, assuming I was exaggerating, lying or whatever, that's crap.

 

Good work.

[ThePuck]

Just to be clear, it wasn't ME you were calling a shameless, full-time Twins apologist, right? :-)

[jokin]

Just to be clear, it wasn't ME you were calling a shameless, full-time Twins apologist, right? :-)

 

Nope.

[Riverbrian]

Is there a Gardy Apologist Club or something? Get Togethers... Meetings... Membership Dues... If so... Why haven't I been invited or asked to contribute?

[Guest USAFChief]

JJ Hardy home runs in 2009 and 2010: 17...combined. SLG in 2009: 0.357 (average was 0.418). SLG in 2010: 0.394 (average was 0.403). ISO in 2009: 0.128 (average was 0.155). ISO in 2010: 0.126 (average was 0.145). Would you like to point out that sometimes a 2B has batted second so that naturally means they batted there "just because" of it? Cuz that would be a good play here, too...I guess.

 

We wouldn't be moving the goalposts now would we?

[CDog]

We wouldn't be moving the goalposts now would we?

 

No. Hardy hadn't shown the power in 2009 and 2010 that he has shown since. Implying that he had just isn't true.

[ThePuck]

No. Hardy hadn't shown the power in 2009 and 2010 that he has shown since. Implying that he had just isn't true.

 

For the record, I never mentioned the power part...the debate between you and I was only about whether or not Gardy had a big role in why Hardy was traded. I won't pretend to know the real reason why Gardy wanted him gone.

 

But if we can put that aside, once Hardy got healthy (occurring in the 2nd half of 2010), he posted a slash line of .304/.363/.442. From a shortstop, that's pretty impressive. Wouldn't it have made sense to see what he had the following year since he wasn't due a big raise in arbitration anyway

[CDog]

For the record, I never mentioned the power part...the debate between you and I was only about whether or not Gardy had a big role in why Hardy was traded. I won't pretend to know the real reason why Gardy wanted him gone.

 

But if we can put that aside, once Hardy got healthy (occurring in the 2nd half of 2010), he posted a slash line of .304/.363/.442. From a shortstop, that's pretty impressive. Wouldn't it have made sense to see what he had the following year since he wasn't due a big raise in arbitration anyway

 

More or less agree. I was perplexed at the time, and really disappointed in what they got back (which I doubt Gardenhire had anything to do with, btw). Even in the moment, it was one of my least liked personnel moves. And that's without using hindsight to shift around the reasons for it at the time as was done (not by you).

[ThePuck]

More or less agree. I was perplexed at the time, and really disappointed in what they got back (which I doubt Gardenhire had anything to do with, btw). Even in the moment, it was one of my least liked personnel moves. And that's without using hindsight to shift around the reasons for it at the time as was done (not by you).

 

I was giddy when we got him and royally ticked when he was traded. :-)

 

Heck, even in an injury year with us, he posted the best UZR/150 of any starting shortstop. Have always loved his defense

[Riverbrian]

Myself... I was pissed that we gave up Gomez for Hardy and I still am today to a certain degree... I felt that Gomez was up with the big club too early. Gomez has all the tools to be a superstar... He just needed his head to catch up. That was my feeling at the time. He hasn't gone nuts yet but I still think he can. Last year... He started to show it a little. Let's see what he does this year.

 

At the time of the Hardy trade to Baltimore... I was hopeful that the pitchers we got back were worth something and also hopeful that this Nishioka guy was gonna be as advertised. In hindsight... Neither the pitchers or Nishioka were close to MLB capable and it ended up being a huge mistake.

 

In the end... I think it has been two wrongs making it all wronger.

 

As a pure guess... I think Gardenhire has huge influence on the roster. Gomez... Hardy... all of them...

 

He's the Manager and he works with the players everyday. What a ****ty job if you are not consulted at all when it comes to shaping the roster you are supposed to manage. There are probably times when Gardy disagrees with moves and times when Gardy was the spark that lit the fire. I'm sure Gardy is allowed in the meetings and his wishes considered.

 

A Manager (in my imagination) is just another part of the filtering process or another tool (not meant as the negative version of tool) that the GM has in front of him. I think it's entirely possible that when Terry Ryan stepped down. Mr. Smith tried to serve Gardy more than Terry Ryan did or would and the team lost some balance in the decision making process. That's just a guess...

 

I'm under the impression rightly or wrongly that the combination of Terry Ryan and Ron Gardenhire was pretty good and the combination of Bill Smith and Ron Gardenhire was not.

 

Anyway, we all mistakes and in the end you gotta try something to get better and sometimes it doesn't work out... Hindsight is an unfair advantage to those who judge.

 

In the End... The Teams performance will determine if they are getting the job done. It's my opinion that it's too soon to hang TR since he has come back because the organization is a really big boat and turning it around on a dime is impossible...

 

Also in my opinion Gardy is coming close to the time where replacing him is a consideration but his success prior should not be overlooked because I do believe that Gardy had a role in where we were and where we are.

[Guest USAFChief]

Hindsight is an unfair advantage to those who judge.

 

I hate this excuse.

 

Many people at the time of the Hardy trade: "What the heck is Smith DOING? Ridiculously stupid."

 

A few: "Just wait and see. Hardy wasn't any good, need years to evaluate a trade, blah blah blah."

 

Later, said many people: "See, the Hardy trade was ridiculously stupid."

 

A few: "Hindsight!"

[Mike Sixel]

There was a huge population ripping the Hardy trade when it was made....it is unfair to classify it all as hindsight. Just as there is a huge disagreement with signings made so far this year.

[CDog]

Wasn't saying the trade was only bad in hindsight (as already pointed out). Was pointing out the power angle wasn't what is being claimed now. That's not the same. And probably got under my skin because of the common insinuation that "they" would actually prefer a player NOT to have power. That part is probably on me for letting an "outer voice" (or whatever the terminology used on this site in a really good article) influence me a bit too much.

[Riverbrian]

I used the Term hindsight and I'll stand by it. It doesn't apply to everyone in all cases but it does apply often enough to be valid.

 

I was using my thoughts with my application of the word hindsight as it applies to me. In hindsight,,, I still think I was right On the Gomez Trade and obviously wrong with my lack of concern over the Hardy to Baltimore trade but I'm not going to use my thoughts at the time in hindsight to vilify or praise the decision makers. Every GM has made a bad trade or bad signing. I don't expect perfection because I've never met anyone who is perfect.

 

To clarify... I'm not going to throw Bill Smith into the fire for a single trade... I will throw Bill Smith into the fire for the totality of what happened to my Twins during his tenure. The lack of harvest we are reaping now and he was the final say... The King of the filter... Ultimately... The blame truly rests at Pohlads feet. Because the owner hires the people who hire the people and bringing Terry Ryan back is an attempt to correct that mistake in my opinion.

 

There are a lot of people employed in the Twins front office... They are not just cardboard cutouts... They are employed for a reason. I don't know who supports each decision and I don't who is in opposition of each decision... but Im pretty sure... Much like Twins Daily... Very rarely would the entire front office agree 100 percent... 100 percent of the time. Things just don't happen that easy in life. I can't get my wife to agree with me that the Ground Round would be a great place to eat tonight when she wants to go to Applebee's.

 

There are times when John Bonnes and Seth Stohs disagree or Nick or Parker or Brock... At least I think so... All want the team to get better and looking at how things turned out in hindsight isn't worth much because if John was right this time.. He may be wrong the next time.

 

The bottom line is that we are in last place... Things went wrong... Bill Smith was removed as GM in an organization that hadnt done a lot of removing period. It appears from the outside that Bill Smith has been held responsoble... Now it has to be cleaned up and fixed.

 

Gardy was the manager during this period so I'm pretty sure that he was a big part of this downturn. Either by making bad suggestions or by lacking the salesmanship to sell Bill Smith and others in the room on the right direction... the GM filter got clogged in my opinion.. I don't know how or why but it did and Gardy can't totally escape blame because Im pretty sure he was in the room. It would be strange if he wasn't.

 

Yet I still think Gardy and Ryan have been good together... In hindsight... I may be wrong.

[CDog]

I can't get my wife to agree with me that the Ground Round would be a great place to eat tonight when she wants to go to Applebee's.

 

North Dakota makes me sad.

 

(Settle down, folks...just a joke. Probably.)

[Riverbrian]

North Dakota makes me sad.

 

(Settle down, folks...just a joke. Probably.)

 

lol... It was just for example purposes... we do have other restaurants in North Dakota...

 

Like... Buffalo Wild wings... Arby's... Hardees... Texas Roadhouse... McDonalds... Burger King... Ruby Tuesday... IHOP... Perkins... Subway... Quizno's and a Truck stop.

[ThePuck]

I love the Ground Round...especially on Fridays...free all you can eat wings, trivia contest, and drink specials. All this went on for like 2 1/2 hours. Used to be a regular start to the weekend in the late 90s-early 00s