Article: Correia Signing is a Sad Thing

[old nurse]

OMG The Royals signed Sherrill, Wheeler, and Tavares. The Twins are doomed.

[Rick Blaine]

Look at it this way--- Kevin Correia's 162 game average would have made him SECOND in starts, wins, innings pitched and strikeouts on the 2012 Twins team.

 

Hopefully Ryan has more in store. I think Correia is (will be) better than Pavano, Liriano, or Blackburn. What did we pay those three last year? His signing probably signals those three are not coming back--- so be happy:)

[Winston Smith]

It's just lucky TR tied him up before he signed in Japan.

[CDog]

That's exactly the point are we trying to acquire quality arms? I know Jame Shields ended up in kc

 

So your point was to come and make a bs argument that the Twins wouldn't like to have Shields pitch for them? To make the garbage insinuation that Correia is the only move the Twins have made or will make? To further some ridiculous notion that not winning a World Series is a complete failure? Is that about right? The Tigers tried to get Shields just as hard as the Twins tried to get Haren or McCarthy or ... well, Shields, if you want to play that game.

 

The Twins likely will make another move, though this one is a bad omen. If you believe La Velle E Neal, the Twins actually never made an attempt to sign McCarthy. There were never any reports that they made a play for Haren either. They could have traded for him, giving up peanuts likely, had they been willing to pay him $13 million. On the other hand, the Tigers actually DID make a strong effort to trade for Shields.

 

I agree that Correia was surely not a top target, but obviously the Twins are not trying as hard as other clubs to sign/trade for some of these big names. We DO hear reports the Twins have been tied to Correia, Liriano, Lannan and Myers. We DON'T hear reports they are tied to Sanchez, Marcum, Jackson or Lohse.

 

Methinks you missed my point.

[Rick Blaine]

OMG The Royals signed Sherrill, Wheeler, and Tavares. The Twins are doomed.

 

Would you even want those three?? Sherrill and Wheeler are has beens and Tavares has been out of the majors for over two years. If Ryan signed any one of those three-- he would be crucified on this site.

[Mike Sixel]

I think you missed the sarcasm, Rick.

[savvyspy]

He's the NL Nick Blackburn

[LoganJones]

If you believe La Velle E Neal,

 

Which I don't.

the Twins actually never made an attempt to sign McCarthy. There were never any reports that they made a play for Haren either. They could have traded for him, giving up peanuts likely, had they been willing to pay him $13 million. On the other hand, the Tigers actually DID make a strong effort to trade for Shields.

 

I agree that Correia was surely not a top target, but obviously the Twins are not trying as hard as other clubs to sign/trade for some of these big names. We DO hear reports the Twins have been tied to Correia, Liriano, Lannan and Myers. We DON'T hear reports they are tied to Sanchez, Marcum, Jackson or Lohse.

 

Or the reporters aren't trying as hard / making up rumors. Seriously. It takes a special kind of myopia to honestly think the Twins didn't send their offers on to each and every one of the pitchers whose agent would take their calls. What's in it for the Twins to bust a bunch of dollars over what they see as fair value for any of these guys? A few less grumpy tweets and message board posts? They know what they value these guys at, and right now, these guys think they're worth more and plan on getting it. Most likely, the hang ups are not even about dollars/years. More like opt-outs, no trade clauses and option years. Just look at the ridiculous terms on Greinke's deal. In order to keep the no trade off the books he got an opt-out in case he gets all cy-youngy again and wants to grab even more dollars. But if he stinks? Dodgers won't be able to trade him and he'll be Barry Zitoing his way through all that cash.

[nicksaviking]

That's exactly the point are we trying to acquire quality arms? I know Jame Shields ended up in kc

 

So your point was to come and make a bs argument that the Twins wouldn't like to have Shields pitch for them? To make the garbage insinuation that Correia is the only move the Twins have made or will make? To further some ridiculous notion that not winning a World Series is a complete failure? Is that about right? The Tigers tried to get Shields just as hard as the Twins tried to get Haren or McCarthy or ... well, Shields, if you want to play that game.

 

The Twins likely will make another move, though this one is a bad omen. If you believe La Velle E Neal, the Twins actually never made an attempt to sign McCarthy. There were never any reports that they made a play for Haren either. They could have traded for him, giving up peanuts likely, had they been willing to pay him $13 million. On the other hand, the Tigers actually DID make a strong effort to trade for Shields.

 

I agree that Correia was surely not a top target, but obviously the Twins are not trying as hard as other clubs to sign/trade for some of these big names. We DO hear reports the Twins have been tied to Correia, Liriano, Lannan and Myers. We DON'T hear reports they are tied to Sanchez, Marcum, Jackson or Lohse.

 

Methinks you missed my point.

 

Did I? I highlighted the areas of my previous post that I thought addressed your point. If they are off base, I apologize.

[ThePuck]

 

I don't think its JUST the 95 losses that make pitchers reluctant to sign in Minnesota. Gut feeling is that there's a whole slew of factors at play but that's all it is, a gut feeling.

 

And one of those factors could be...Twins don't make the best offer...

 

Name one higher profile pitcher then that signed a FA contract with a last place team?

 

I was adding in another possible factor to his list...since it does seem MOST players go where they get paid the most.

 

To answer your statement, most of the teams willing to spend a good chunk on free agents aren't usually in last place...cause they get the talent. So even if it's never happened, it doesn't prove anything.

 

Your assumption that the Twins have never made the best offer has no proof. Logic might be escaping you. Unless there is an overwhelmingly better offer and the team has drastically overpaid, or no one else wants you, why would you go to a losing small market, low media team? . There is nothing in the Twins offense or defense right now that would suggest to a pitcher that you are going to catch a break and thus have a poor record. Less money and a better record might net a bigger contract the next time. You so want to believe the Twins do not make competitive offers that it blinds you to all other possibilities. You also ignore the simple fact that playing on a losing team sucks so why would I want to go to a losing team? A big pile of money to hate life?

 

No worse than your assumption the Twins DID offer the most money, but the pitcher decided a team that's only been bad the last two seasons isn't worth going to.

 

It's all assumptions, you just think yours are better.

 

All I did was say it COULD be a factor, along with the other factors given by the person who made the post I was responding to

[chagen]

CDog,

 

Can't argue with you if your happy with the results the Twins have had the last couple years! There doing it right! I'm sure you'll be back hear in about a year telling how good a starter Kevin Corriea is. LOL

[Rick Blaine]

I think you missed the sarcasm, Rick.

 

My bad. I thought it might be sarcasm-- but you never know. I really am only trying to build up my post total!

[CDog]

CDog,

 

Can't argue with you if your happy with the results the Twins have had the last couple years! There doing it right! I'm sure you'll be back hear in about a year telling how good a starter Kevin Corriea is. LOL

 

That is EXACTLY what I said.....right? RIGHT? Are you really going to try and honestly make that leap? Or is it just more garbage where you argue against something that never existed or was said?

[glunn]

It seems like this signing has upset a lot of us (including me), but let's try to remember that we are all in this together.

[Blake]

Maybe this is a trade deadline signing? Correia has an okay year, the Twins are out of contention by the end of April, I mean, June, another team in contention needs someone to fill a hole in the rotation and the Twins move Correia. (Yeah, I know, I'm reaching)

 

Who the hell would trade for Correia? JR can't trade to himself.

 

Notice I also said "Twins are out of contention in April, I mean, June..."

 

It was just a bit of tongue-in-cheek, trying to make sense of the senseless in a senseless way.

[chagen]

Hears where i stand on this free agent signing. I'm totally against it i think it's a waste of 10 million dollars. Now are you for this signing CDOG?

[biffman77]

At least Kevin Correia pitched a full major league season. It's more than Blackburn, DeVries,Deduno, And Pavano can say. When you need to add pitching,(and every team does) you have to go get players and let them sort it out. 2 years at 10 mil is not a very big deal in the grand scheme of things, and our goal as an organization needs to be finding able bodied pitchers that we can run out every 5th day. Guys like DeVries, Deduno, Hendricks, Vazquez, heck, even Gibson haven't established any kind of a track record that would suggest they can yet. So somebody has to take the ball, and for the last 4 years, Correia has at least been able to do that.

[biffman77]

Correia fills a need, plain and simple. We need Pitching depth. At all levels. He alone will not be enough, but he does take us in a step towards the right direction. We need to hope that in the upcoming drafts, Trade deadlines, and free agency, that we continue to address this problem area.

[Willihammer]

The only track record Correia's established is that he is a luck-dependent replacement level talent, who has only had the opportunity to throw a lot of innings on some very lousy teams.

[biffman77]

It's going to be extremely hard to compete with what we have, and what's available on the trade and free agent markets. We do have a decent nucleus and a pretty effective bullpen, when you add Roenicke into the mix. Coupled with the fact that Swarzak and Duensing remain in the bullpen all year(hopefully) where they both were more effective. If we can add one more arm to help solidify our rotation and create a competition between the likes of DeVries, Deduno, Walters, Vazquez, Gibson, and even Blackburn, we can breath a little easier knowing these guys are depth, rather than options. In 2 years, when Correia and Blackburn are off the books, hopefully May and Meyer will be ready to join the party.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

I am not a big fan of this trade either. But at Correia has been injury free he past couple of years and will give us another starter until Gibson and Meyer are ready. He cant be much worse than DeVries--and remember that Twins were gonna pay Baker almost 10 mill next year anyway.

 

I doubt big name pitchers will consider Twins--our corner OF defense (Doumit, Parmalee, Josh) is worthless--our middle IF and CF defense is unproven prospects like Hicks, Benson, Dozier, Florimom---that means added ER..

 

Does anyone know why you cant get to comments on original article but have to go to Forum??

[biffman77]

And we are...

It's not fun to admit it, but we are building for 2015. But you need someone to throw out there and not have it look like a deer in headlights.

[rickyriolo]

corriea will have no value at the trade deadline....dumb signing....but he does have a heartbeat so i guess that is a good thing for the Twins

[TheLeviathan]

I think most of us were hoping for – rather than expecting – good moves to be made that would set this club on the right course short-term. Is that so unreasonable? Ryan's made some good trades and made some good FA signings last year, but for whatever reason he simply cannot make it happen with decent free agent pitchers. Even with money to burn.

 

Hope has this problem - if it's not grounded in some sense of reality - it's often wrong. You got on your high horse to call a realistic position wrong based on hope. You know what I had hope in? Baker at 5.5M finding the Scotty B. that was highly underrated by this fanbase. This schtick doesn't work, people did the same thing to you prior to 2011. The issue wasn't that you were a soulless pessimist - it's that you overlooked reality. I'm not going to hammer you with it, but the positions are essentially flipped Nick. In my eyes, you looked past your own better judgement out of blind optimism rather than real analysis.

 

It happens to all fans, but next time don't be so quick to bash pessimism simply because it isn't what we want to hear. I know I learned that prior to 2011 when you were absolutely right.

[biffman77]

I, for one will take a league average replacement over what we've been running out there the last 2 seasons. Especially since we're most likely to be lousy next year once again. It'll be buisness as usual for Mr. Correia.

[ThePuck]

I, for one will take a league average replacement over what we've been running out there the last 2 seasons. Especially since we're most likely to be lousy next year once again. It'll be buisness as usual for Mr. Correia.

 

If only he was league average....hasn't had an ERA+ of 100 or better since 2007

[Boom Boom]

I, for one will take a league average replacement over what we've been running out there the last 2 seasons. Especially since we're most likely to be lousy next year once again. It'll be buisness as usual for Mr. Correia.

 

Except for that Correia isn't league average, even in the National League.

 

The Pirates demoted him to the bullpen. Think about that - Correia couldn't even hold down the 5th spot in the Pittsburgh Pirates' awful rotation.

[SydneyTwinsFan]

Some over reaction to this signing. Personally I'm not that bothered by it:

 

2yrs/$10m isn't a budget killing contract. There is still room to add significant payroll

The Twins had OVER 100 STARTS last year from pitchers with an ERA > 5.00, so rolling out those same guys (Blackburn, Pavano, Liriano, Walters etc) isn't an option. Correia's 4.21 ERA from last year will likely rise a bit moving from NL>AL but there's at least some prospect he can keep the team in games rather than being out of it inside 2 innings.

To that end, Correia had 17 starts last year where he went at least 6IP with < 4 earned runs. No Twins starter from last year can claim that. Pittsburgh went 15-13 in games started by Correia last year - I would take that outcome in a heartbeat.

 

Look, am I sickened by the low K rate and lack of upside in the signing? For sure. Would I prefer to see Marcum at 3/35 or Jackson at 4/50? Absolutely. Do I think Correia is going to anchor the rotation over the next two years? Of course not.

 

But in the world in which TR is forced to operate (an institutionalised reluctance for long term FA signings, the 2013 Twins being a spectacularly unattractive FA destination), adding a guy to provide some back of the rotation innings that will keep the team in games for $5m per year hardly warrants a mob of posters with burning torches and pitchforks.

[ThePuck]

Some over reaction to this signing. Personally I'm not that bothered by it:

 

2yrs/$10m isn't a budget killing contract. There is still room to add significant payroll

The Twins had OVER 100 STARTS last year from pitchers with an ERA > 5.00, so rolling out those same guys (Blackburn, Pavano, Liriano, Walters etc) isn't an option. Correia's 4.21 ERA from last year will likely rise a bit moving from NL>AL but there's at least some prospect he can keep the team in games rather than being out of it inside 2 innings.

To that end, Correia had 17 starts last year where he went at least 6IP with < 4 earned runs. No Twins starter from last year can claim that. Pittsburgh went 15-13 in games started by Correia last year - I would take that outcome in a heartbeat.

 

Look, am I sickened by the low K rate and lack of upside in the signing? For sure. Would I prefer to see Marcum at 3/35 or Jackson at 4/50? Absolutely. Do I think Correia is going to anchor the rotation over the next two years? Of course not.

 

But in the world in which TR is forced to operate (an institutionalised reluctance for long term FA signings, the 2013 Twins being a spectacularly unattractive FA destination), adding a guy to provide some back of the rotation innings that will keep the team in games for $5m per year hardly warrants a mob of posters with burning torches and pitchforks.

 

Yes, but don't you normally sign your better players first in FA just in case they cost a bit more than you want to spend and then fill in with players like Corriea with some of the remaining money if you have to? Your post suggest they'll go after a much better arm since we have money left to spend, but it seems unlikely to sign a guy like Corriea first and THEN make that big splash.

[ThePuck]

Some over reaction to this signing. Personally I'm not that bothered by it:

 

2yrs/$10m isn't a budget killing contract. There is still room to add significant payroll

The Twins had OVER 100 STARTS last year from pitchers with an ERA > 5.00, so rolling out those same guys (Blackburn, Pavano, Liriano, Walters etc) isn't an option. Correia's 4.21 ERA from last year will likely rise a bit moving from NL>AL but there's at least some prospect he can keep the team in games rather than being out of it inside 2 innings.

To that end, Correia had 17 starts last year where he went at least 6IP with < 4 earned runs. No Twins starter from last year can claim that. Pittsburgh went 15-13 in games started by Correia last year - I would take that outcome in a heartbeat.

 

Look, am I sickened by the low K rate and lack of upside in the signing? For sure. Would I prefer to see Marcum at 3/35 or Jackson at 4/50? Absolutely. Do I think Correia is going to anchor the rotation over the next two years? Of course not.

 

But in the world in which TR is forced to operate (an institutionalised reluctance for long term FA signings, the 2013 Twins being a spectacularly unattractive FA destination), adding a guy to provide some back of the rotation innings that will keep the team in games for $5m per year hardly warrants a mob of posters with burning torches and pitchforks.

 

Problem is all we have are mid-to-back of the rotation guys...don't we have enough of those? Signing a guy like Correia doesn't fix any problems.