Article: Correia Signing is a Sad Thing

[ThePuck]

Just because you have a general organizational problem (lack of power hitters, no power arms, etc.) doesn't mean that EVERY move you make needs to directly address that issue.

 

Worley doesn't address that need either...and you didn't see me slamming him. In any event, we haven't addressed that need, at all...not for the present at least

[biffman77]

A rotation of Correia, Diamond, Vanimal, and whoever, looks slightly better than, Diamond, Vanimal, and whoever. Besides, How many of our pitchers threw over 150+ innings last year? 200+ might be nice, but I'll take 179 too.

[ThePuck]

Money simply isn't enough to lure prime talent to a team that's lost 95+. Personally, I'm not that bent outta shape about it. In this new drug free era of baseball, you cant invest big money in 30 something starters and expect an even modest return. You have to get young pitching, harness it while their healthy, and let someone else make the mistake of overpaying for past accomplishments. How much of Greinke's contract, will he actually earn? What did we really lose when we traded Johan Santana? About 1 and a half seasons of decent, not elite pitching, which the Mets are still paying for. In the mean while, we need somebody, anybody, to at least hold down a spot, until the prospects are ready.

 

Johan's first year with the Mets he led the majors in ERA and quality starts while leading the NL in IP (3rd in the majors). His next year he had an ERA of 3.19 and the next year he had an ERA of 2.98

[biffman77]

It does make me wonder what Lannan, Liriano, and Saunders will be worth. My Guess is 7-9 mil, each.

[biffman77]

I stand corrected sir. Most kind

[JB_Iowa]

Question; is it just the 95 losses that makes it difficult to lure pitchers? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson is the Twins pitching coach? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson MAY only be the pitching coach for 2013 and that Ron Gardenhire MAY only be the manager for 2013? What effect does the organization's prior pitching philosophy have (and is that philosophy gone)? What effect does the organization's historical stinginess on free agent pitching (and, for that matter, on extensions) have?

 

I don't think its JUST the 95 losses that make pitchers reluctant to sign in Minnesota. Gut feeling is that there's a whole slew of factors at play but that's all it is, a gut feeling.

[ThePuck]

Question; is it just the 95 losses that makes it difficult to lure pitchers? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson is the Twins pitching coach? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson MAY only be the pitching coach for 2013 and that Ron Gardenhire MAY only be the manager for 2013? What effect does the organization's prior pitching philosophy have (and is that philosophy gone)? What effect does the organization's historical stinginess on free agent pitching (and, for that matter, on extensions) have?

 

I don't think its JUST the 95 losses that make pitchers reluctant to sign in Minnesota. Gut feeling is that there's a whole slew of factors at play but that's all it is, a gut feeling.

 

And one of those factors could be...Twins don't make the best offer...

[biffman77]

All though he only reached 200+ innings only the first year, and further clogged up the Mets payroll situation.

[Boom Boom]

Maybe Correia can post better numbers with Butera as his personal catcher.

[biffman77]

These pitcher are free agents. They can play wherever they choose. There are many teams with needs for pitching, and hope for immediate success. You probably could overpay for a pitcher like Shaun Marcum or Anibal Sanchez, but then the question becomes, Are we a Marcum or Sanchez away from being a contender now?

[biffman77]

I'm just waiting for the Liriano news.

[Mike Sixel]

But you are not adding Sanchez or Marcum for 1 year....so the questions are....do you punt on 2012....do you believe you can sign anyone this year that will help in 1 or 2 years.....signing guys is not about only next year.

[old nurse]

Question; is it just the 95 losses that makes it difficult to lure pitchers? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson is the Twins pitching coach? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson MAY only be the pitching coach for 2013 and that Ron Gardenhire MAY only be the manager for 2013? What effect does the organization's prior pitching philosophy have (and is that philosophy gone)? What effect does the organization's historical stinginess on free agent pitching (and, for that matter, on extensions) have?

 

I don't think its JUST the 95 losses that make pitchers reluctant to sign in Minnesota. Gut feeling is that there's a whole slew of factors at play but that's all it is, a gut feeling.

 

And one of those factors could be...Twins don't make the best offer...

 

Name one higher profile pitcher then that signed a FA contract with a last place team?

[ThePuck]

Are we a Marcum or Sanchez away from being a contender now?

 

Then why even get Corriea...I mean, seriously. Why? Not being a jerk, just wondering. This move doesn't get us any better, so why make it. If we're not going to even attempt to be respectable, why even make this move...and for two years

[Top Gun]

2013 The worst twins team ever.

[ThePuck]

Question; is it just the 95 losses that makes it difficult to lure pitchers? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson is the Twins pitching coach? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson MAY only be the pitching coach for 2013 and that Ron Gardenhire MAY only be the manager for 2013? What effect does the organization's prior pitching philosophy have (and is that philosophy gone)? What effect does the organization's historical stinginess on free agent pitching (and, for that matter, on extensions) have?

 

I don't think its JUST the 95 losses that make pitchers reluctant to sign in Minnesota. Gut feeling is that there's a whole slew of factors at play but that's all it is, a gut feeling.

 

And one of those factors could be...Twins don't make the best offer...

 

Name one higher profile pitcher then that signed a FA contract with a last place team?

 

I was adding in another possible factor to his list...since it does seem MOST players go where they get paid the most.

 

To answer your statement, most of the teams willing to spend a good chunk on free agents aren't usually in last place...cause they get the talent. So even if it's never happened, it doesn't prove anything.

[Ultima Ratio]

Kevin Correia, Twins agree to terms - Bucs Dugout

 

What the one Pirates Blog is saying. In short, they (we, cause I'm a Pittsburger) don't get the money or the years -- the whole signing really.

[nicksaviking]

Question; is it just the 95 losses that makes it difficult to lure pitchers? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson is the Twins pitching coach? What effect (if any) does it have that Rick Anderson MAY only be the pitching coach for 2013 and that Ron Gardenhire MAY only be the manager for 2013? What effect does the organization's prior pitching philosophy have (and is that philosophy gone)? What effect does the organization's historical stinginess on free agent pitching (and, for that matter, on extensions) have?

 

I don't think its JUST the 95 losses that make pitchers reluctant to sign in Minnesota. Gut feeling is that there's a whole slew of factors at play but that's all it is, a gut feeling.

 

And one of those factors could be...Twins don't make the best offer...

 

Name one higher profile pitcher then that signed a FA contract with a last place team?

 

The Rockies signed Jeff Francis for $1.5 million and only had to give him 1 year. That signing would have only been mildly annoying, not upsetting like this two-year slap in the face. The other bottom feeders haven't done anything, just as Ryan shouldn't have unless he was going after a top of the rotation arm.

[chagen]

We get Kevin Correia and i hear the Tigers were trying to get James Shields doesn't seem right does it? They have quality starting pitching and are trying to acquire more. We pick up Kevin Correia and we wonder why we haven't won anything in over 20 years.

[CDog]

We get Kevin Correia and i hear the Tigers were trying to get James Shields doesn't seem right does it? They have quality starting pitching and are trying to acquire more. We pick up Kevin Correia and we wonder why we haven't won anything in over 20 years.

 

How many starts do you suppose Shields will make for the Tigers this year?

[StormJH1]

Kevin Correia, Twins agree to terms - Bucs Dugout

 

What the one Pirates Blog is saying. In short, they (we, cause I'm a Pittsburger) don't get the money or the years -- the whole signing really.

Interesting. I do like getting out of the Minnesota Bubble for some outside perspective on our moves. On the other hand, I'm not sure the Pirates should be throwing stones, since they handed (at least) $15 million to Jose Tabata before they realized he doesn't even belong in the majors right now.

 

I'm just not really sure what people expected to happen. If they were going to find someone to take only one year, it probably be in January or February after the market is REALLY picked over and the only guys left are even worse than Correia.

 

I mean, some people liked Joe Blanton. I really liked Brandon McCarthy, but if you follow him (or his wife) on Twitter, these people are human beings. Not only are they driven by the most years and most money they can get (which probably wouldn't be the Twins), but they might value playing for a team that isn't one of the worst in the MLB. Or they may have family/personal reasons for preferring one market over another (McCarthy's wife was an Arizona grad). So just because the numbers weren't that far off doesn't mean any particular team was actually "close" to signing some other guy you wanted.

[LoganJones]

We get Kevin Correia and i hear the Tigers were trying to get James Shields doesn't seem right does it? They have quality starting pitching and are trying to acquire more. We pick up Kevin Correia and we wonder why we haven't won anything in over 20 years.

 

Do you wish we had just traded Miguel Sano, Kyle Gibson, That Lefty LaVele Likes and the AFL surprise kid? Would that make you excited for James Shields?

[StormJH1]

We get Kevin Correia and i hear the Tigers were trying to get James Shields doesn't seem right does it? They have quality starting pitching and are trying to acquire more. We pick up Kevin Correia and we wonder why we haven't won anything in over 20 years.

 

How many starts do you suppose Shields will make for the Tigers this year?

 

I think he was just making the point that the Tigers were willing to get Shields even though they have a pretty darn good rotation. Much like they spent $200 million+ on Prince to address a one-year need due to the loss of V-Mart, and required them to move Cabrera to 3B.

 

I assume he knows that Shields was ultimately traded to KC.

[old nurse]

 

I don't think its JUST the 95 losses that make pitchers reluctant to sign in Minnesota. Gut feeling is that there's a whole slew of factors at play but that's all it is, a gut feeling.

 

And one of those factors could be...Twins don't make the best offer...

 

Name one higher profile pitcher then that signed a FA contract with a last place team?

 

I was adding in another possible factor to his list...since it does seem MOST players go where they get paid the most.

 

To answer your statement, most of the teams willing to spend a good chunk on free agents aren't usually in last place...cause they get the talent. So even if it's never happened, it doesn't prove anything.

 

Your assumption that the Twins have never made the best offer has no proof. Logic might be escaping you. Unless there is an overwhelmingly better offer and the team has drastically overpaid, or no one else wants you, why would you go to a losing small market, low media team? . There is nothing in the Twins offense or defense right now that would suggest to a pitcher that you are going to catch a break and thus have a poor record. Less money and a better record might net a bigger contract the next time. You so want to believe the Twins do not make competitive offers that it blinds you to all other possibilities. You also ignore the simple fact that playing on a losing team sucks so why would I want to go to a losing team? A big pile of money to hate life?

[StormJH1]

We get Kevin Correia and i hear the Tigers were trying to get James Shields doesn't seem right does it? They have quality starting pitching and are trying to acquire more. We pick up Kevin Correia and we wonder why we haven't won anything in over 20 years.

 

Do you wish we had just traded Miguel Sano, Kyle Gibson, That Lefty LaVele Likes and the AFL surprise kid? Would that make you excited for James Shields?

The KC deal is atrocious. It's pretty clear that Twins fans view free agent money like Monopoly money, and don't want to hear excuses as to why we shouldn't buy our way out of giant holes every year. But I extremely happy that TR was willing to trade two major league CF's for some decent upside, as opposed to identifying a "surplus" in minor league outfielders and shipping off someone like Hicks or Arcia for a 30-year old starter.

 

Wil Myers may be twice as good as Sano will ever be. Who knows. To give him up in a deal like that just because they're bored with having blue chip prospects come up to the bigs and turn out to be more mediocre than expected (Gordon, Moustakas, Hosmer, etc.)...well, it's a joke.

[chagen]

That's exactly the point are we trying to acquire quality arms? I know Jame Shields ended up in kc

[CDog]

That's exactly the point are we trying to acquire quality arms? I know Jame Shields ended up in kc

 

So your point was to come and make a bs argument that the Twins wouldn't like to have Shields pitch for them? To make the garbage insinuation that Correia is the only move the Twins have made or will make? To further some ridiculous notion that not winning a World Series is a complete failure? Is that about right? The Tigers tried to get Shields just as hard as the Twins tried to get Haren or McCarthy or ... well, Shields, if you want to play that game.

[LoganJones]

Of course they are trying to acquire quality arms. The going rate for 1 Win pitchers is apparently 5 Mil a year. Dan Haren was a 1.8 Win pitcher last year and got 13 Million. I'm sure the Twins could have signed Correia (.9 win) to a 1 year deal for roughly 6.5-7 Million. He gave a per year discount in exchange for a little annual security. Plus: is this deal even official?

[nicksaviking]

Kevin Correia, Twins agree to terms - Bucs Dugout

 

What the one Pirates Blog is saying. In short, they (we, cause I'm a Pittsburger) don't get the money or the years -- the whole signing really.

I'm just not really sure what people expected to happen. If they were going to find someone to take only one year, it probably be in January or February after the market is REALLY picked over and the only guys left are even worse than Correia.

 

I doubt it, there are always stragglers that haven't been signed and latch on for a team friendly deal come February. Those pitchers are of the same caliber as Correia. These threads are going to resurface again in two months when other teams are signing the Randy Wolf's, Carl Pavano's and Mike Pelfry's for $1-$5 million on 1 year deals.

[nicksaviking]

That's exactly the point are we trying to acquire quality arms? I know Jame Shields ended up in kc

 

So your point was to come and make a bs argument that the Twins wouldn't like to have Shields pitch for them? To make the garbage insinuation that Correia is the only move the Twins have made or will make? To further some ridiculous notion that not winning a World Series is a complete failure? Is that about right? The Tigers tried to get Shields just as hard as the Twins tried to get Haren or McCarthy or ... well, Shields, if you want to play that game.

 

The Twins likely will make another move, though this one is a bad omen. If you believe La Velle E Neal, the Twins actually never made an attempt to sign McCarthy. There were never any reports that they made a play for Haren either. They could have traded for him, giving up peanuts likely, had they been willing to pay him $13 million. On the other hand, the Tigers actually DID make a strong effort to trade for Shields.

 

I agree that Correia was surely not a top target, but obviously the Twins are not trying as hard as other clubs to sign/trade for some of these big names. We DO hear reports the Twins have been tied to Correia, Liriano, Lannan and Myers. We DON'T hear reports they are tied to Sanchez, Marcum, Jackson or Lohse.