Article: Twins To Sign RHP Kevin Correia

[CDog]

Cdog, if you are racing in the Indy 500, yes, spending 50k on a bad car is cheap. The signing has to be in context of the Twins needs and the market. This signing is bad primarily for the length. If this is fixing the rotation, then it is cheap. If they now sign 2 legit pitchers, this isn't cheap, it is just likely a bad deal.

 

But if I'm planning on running the race in the Focus...why is spending way too much on it a sign of cheapness? That's the part I'm questioning, not the overall willingness or ability to spend. I try hard to stay out of those discussions for many reasons, but in this particular case I don't see why it's a sign of cheapness to way, way, way overpay what someone is worth. If they're just looking to save the money, wouldn't NOT spending it be a better way to do it? I say either way, it's just a bad deal, not a cheap deal. I think we're maybe just on semantics.

[Mike Sixel]

Probably semantics mostly at this point....yes.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

On the plus side, we have 20 million dollars to spend. Put 7 million/yr towards Youkilis and 13 million/yr towards Jackson/Marcum.

 

If the MLB trade rumors site is to be believed, Youkilis Seriously Considering Yankees: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com, Youk has a $12M offer in hand from the Yankees. Minnesota's paltry revenue stream from funding Target Field pales in comparison to what drives this market.

 

Well I guess if the Yankees want a player, there is no way anyone else has a chance at getting him. I'd go up to $10M on Youkilis for one year and offseason handbook (I believe) had him going a 7 million a year. Regardless, we need an infielder that can hit for right handed power in addition to a premiere pitcher.

[panolo]

Well, we don't know if Correia bitches and moans, but we do know he's guaranteed 10 million over the next 2 years. As someone who sat through one of Marquis gawd-awful starts at Target field last year, I don't see anything in Correia's history to suggest the results are going to be much different, other than we are now on the hook for 2 years making it harder to cut bait if necessary. Seriously if you aren't even good enough to be the 5th starter on the Pirates, why are the Twins guaranteeing you 2 years salary? Who were they competing with?

 

I didn't spend hours researching Correia but I didn't find any instances of a terrible attitude. He did have his agent ask for a trade after he went to the bullpen. Sounds like he handled it like a pro.

 

Looking at Correia last year he would have helped us win a few games. If he gives us 175 IP with the same stat line he will help us win games this year. I also don't see why you would get hung up on him not being the 5th starter for the Pirates when he would have started here all year long with his lines. They made a trade for a pretty decent pitcher to fill his spot.

 

We aren't debating Cy Young here and I am not trying to be a Correia apologist. We are talking about a 5th starter on most teams who may be elevated to a #4 here. If he can stay in line with what he has done his last 40 starts or so $5mil is a pretty fair price.

[Craig Arko]

There hasn't been any confirmation of this deal. I wonder what the hang up is.

 

He's probably asking for more money after hearing about the warm welcome from the fans.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

 

To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

 

Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

 

Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

 

Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

 

This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.

 

The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

 

With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

 

I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

 

And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.

[Willihammer]

2-years, $10 million for this bum. ... I think we all have to start thinking on another level like the Twins. Every single move they make is about saving money. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

I've seen this sentiment in other threads about the Correia signing also. Can someone explain how overpaying a guy by somewhere between 2 and 10 times is a sign of cheapness or an attempt to save money? Is paying $50,000 for a used Ford Focus a sign that I'm trying to save money?

 

You're too cheap to fork over an extra $5000 and drive a Navigator. I think that's the idea.

[Riverbrian]

 

Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

 

To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

 

Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

 

Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

 

Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

 

This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.

 

The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

 

With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

 

I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

 

And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.

 

I won't project Correia in 2013. Won't even try. But I gotta tell ya... The more I look at his 2012 numbers... They don't scream terrible... Its Twins Daily that is screaming terrible... The numbers scream average... And if he can just keep us in games at the same percentage he did last year with the Pirates. We can then start to find out if our position players have any fight in them.

 

Lets get some more arms... I'm ready for the next one... And I love reading the reactions.

[ThePuck]

Gotta hand it to you Riverbrian...you really give it your all to back Ryan's moves. Way to stick to your guns

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Is Kevin Correia actually Jason Marquis? I'm looking through their stat lines and they're basically the exact same guy.

 

What on earth is Ryan thinking?

 

Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

 

Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

 

Good for Correia that he wasn't capable of the other worldly and historically colossal decrepitude that Nick Blackburn is. For a metaphorical visual of that comparison, a 4 looks a lot sexier when standing next to a 1....and yet it's still a 4.

[snepp]

No, his numbers don't scream any such thing. Even a cursory look at his ERA compared to the NL average would tell you as much.

[ThePuck]

 

Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

 

To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

 

Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

 

Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

 

Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

 

This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.

 

The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

 

With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

 

I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

 

And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.

 

I expect Correia to be a complete and utter disaster. Consider this: 2012 was his best season in the last 3 years. He posted an ERA+ of88. I don't see an ERA+ of 88 as good. He doesn't strike anybody out, instead relying on defense to do the job behind him. That's not gonna work out well.

[Riverbrian]

Gotta hand it to you Riverbrian...you really give it your all to back Ryan's moves. Way to stick to your guns

 

Thank You Puck... Terry Ryan once ran directly at a Mountain Lion that had me cornered. I've had his back ever since.

 

Seriously... This ain't so much defense of TR... It's more like balance... Correia is being over cooked here. I've spent a lot of time on this site and I appreciate all the posters but I've detected a slight glimpse of embellishment and emotion from time to time. Or maybe that's just me.

[Riverbrian]

Is Kevin Correia actually Jason Marquis? I'm looking through their stat lines and they're basically the exact same guy.

 

What on earth is Ryan thinking?

 

Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

 

Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

 

Good for Correia that he wasn't capable of the other worldly and historically colossal decrepitude that Nick Blackburn is. For a metaphorical visual of that comparison, a 4 looks a lot sexier when standing next to a 1....and yet it's still a 4.

 

Yeah... That's kinda my point... But we have posters here who are calling this signing Blackburn esque. I was pointing out that... that is embellishment at a fairly large degree.

[Riverbrian]

 

Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

 

To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

 

Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

 

Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

 

Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

 

This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.

 

The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

 

With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

 

I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

 

And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.

 

I expect Correia to be a complete and utter disaster. Consider this: 2012 was his best season in the last 3 years. He posted an ERA+ of88. I don't see an ERA+ of 88 as good. He doesn't strike anybody out, instead relying on defense to do the job behind him. That's not gonna work out well.

 

I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.

[snepp]

So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal?

[Riverbrian]

No, his numbers don't scream any such thing. Even a cursory look at his ERA compared to the NL average would tell you as much.

 

Than Why all the screaming?

[ThePuck]

'So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal? '

 

Does it matter that even Blackburn was better than Correia in 4 of the last 5 seasons?

[Riverbrian]

So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal?

 

Snepp... Snepp... It was directed at those who are comparing him to Blackburm.... That's embellishment!!!

[ThePuck]

 

Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

 

To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

 

Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

 

Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

 

Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

 

This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.

 

The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

 

With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

 

I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

 

And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.

 

I expect Correia to be a complete and utter disaster. Consider this: 2012 was his best season in the last 3 years. He posted an ERA+ of88. I don't see an ERA+ of 88 as good. He doesn't strike anybody out, instead relying on defense to do the job behind him. That's not gonna work out well.

 

I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.

 

He's not gonna sniff 3.50...no way...it'll be a miracle if he's in the low 4.00.

[Riverbrian]

'So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal? '

 

Does it matter that even Blackburn was better than Correia in 4 of the last 5 seasons?

 

To me it does... To most... They will just say they are both crappy and hope that we pick up Greinke.

[ThePuck]

'So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal? '

 

Does it matter that even Blackburn was better than Correia in 4 of the last 5 seasons?

 

To me it does... To most... They will just say they are both crappy and hope that we pick up Greinke.

 

Seems to me most would be happy if we managed to get Marcum and/or Jackson...

[Riverbrian]

[quote=Riverbrian;70414

 

I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.

 

He's not gonna sniff 3.50...no way...it'll be a miracle if he's in the low 4.00.

 

Bill James projects 4.09 in 2013.

[Riverbrian]

'So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal? '

 

Does it matter that even Blackburn was better than Correia in 4 of the last 5 seasons?

 

To me it does... To most... They will just say they are both crappy and hope that we pick up Greinke.

 

Seems to me most would be happy if we managed to get Marcum and/or Jackson...

 

Me included... However... Marcum and Jackson were not overwhelmingly better stat wise in 2012.

[ThePuck]

[quote=Riverbrian;70414

 

I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.

 

He's not gonna sniff 3.50...no way...it'll be a miracle if he's in the low 4.00.

 

Bill James projects 4.09 in 2013.

 

yeah, James is my boy...but that's wacky. He's not going to come to the AL, face DHs instead of pitchers, not strike anyone out, count on OUR defense, and get an ERA that low...and lower than last year, his lowest in 3 years

 

A miracle.

[ThePuck]

Marcum hasn't had an ERA over 3.70 in 4 years...two of those years in the AL East. He also Ks some people.. ERA+ over 110 last 4 years. Jackson, slightly less impressive...both way better than Correia.

 

We aren't asking much...

[Riverbrian]

[quote name=Riverbrian;70414

 

I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.

 

He's not gonna sniff 3.50...no way...it'll be a miracle if he's in the low 4.00.

 

Bill James projects 4.09 in 2013.

 

yeah' date=' James is my boy...but that's wacky. He's not going to come to the AL, face DHs instead of pitchers, not strike anyone out, count on OUR defense, and get an ERA that low.

 

A miracle.[/quote]

 

I'm a huge Bill James Fan... When he started doing his thing... He had the balls to keep doing it in the face of everyone telling him it was garbage... It didn't stop him and look what happened... He changed baseball.

 

However... Bill still hasn't figured out how to project with absolute certainly so we can take it with a grain of salt.

[Riverbrian]

Marcum hasn't had an ERA over 3.70 in 4 years...two of those years in the AL East. He also Ks some people.. ERA+ over 110 last 4 years. Jackson, slightly less impressive...both way better than Correia.

 

We aren't asking much...

 

No doubt on Marcum... And Jackson... I'd like them both and I'd settle for one and I don't care what it costs. I think our difference in opinion is going to hinge on the "way better" part.

[ThePuck]

I'm a huge Bill James Fan... When he started doing his thing... He had the balls to keep doing it in the face of everyone telling him it was garbage... It didn't stop him and look what happened... He changed baseball.

 

However... Bill still hasn't figured out how to project with absolute certainly so we can take it with a grain of salt.

 

Yeah, unfortunately, he really hasn't done a good job over the years at projecting...but, like you, I'm still a fan

[ThePuck]

Sabathia had an ERA+ of 124 this year. Gavin Floyd had an ERA+ of 101. 23 point difference. Were they close?

 

23 point difference between Marcum and Correia in ERA+ last year...33 in 2011...47 in 2010.