Twins/Tigers Players Vote to Postpone Tonight's Game

[LVTwinsfan]

This is a tired and false argument. Kaepernick has put his time and money where his mouth (and knee) is, and he's sacrificed more than almost any other professional athlete has for this cause. The idea that he did this for "publicity" is asinine, and I can tell that you've made your mind up about his intentions regardless of the evidence.

cmon, you can’t presume to know anything about me, you can’t tell me what I’ve made up my mind about, I wouldn’t do that to you. It’s an unfair criticism, implying I have some character flaw

[snotboogie]

 

If every potential act of injustice (the recriminations typically begin before most of the facts are even established) causes pro sports to cancel its games, then pro sports no longer can exist. In a country the size of the US, even if every "reform" in the book is passed, you would be able to find a case of potential injustice every day without too much trouble, usually worse than the situation that caused this round of cancellations. Or is the policy to only protest when something has already gone viral? 

No, it's not every discrete act of injustice that gets publicized in the media.

 

The Hennepin County Public Defenders Office just released a study that concluded that 78% of searches conducted by police in Minneapolis after a traffic stop were directed toward Black or East African drivers. According to the 2010 census only 19% of the population was Black or African American. That to me is racial bias.

 

This is a huge, huge problem that goes beyond George Floyd and Jacob Blake. These incidents are emblematic of the problems in our culture and the pro sports athletes are now making a statement about them. I am glad they are speaking out.

[LVTwinsfan]

Roberto Clemente sacrificed for BLM? Whoa, way to get ahead of the curve on that one, buddy! I knew he was awesome but that's incredible!

 

(read the post you quoted more closely)

yep you’re right, I read it as “his cause” not “this cause” my mistake

[Brock Beauchamp]

yep you’re right, I read it as “his cause” not “this cause” my mistake

Oh, I know, just hassling you a bit because it’s funny.

[T_J]

I just want to say that, to me, this discussion has been very respectful (mostly) and I appreciate people willing to talk.

[bighat]

 

Everyone is allowed to make peaceful protests, but if I chose to miss work to protest I wouldn’t get paid, and I wouldn’t expect to be either.

If you like the benefits that baseball players get, maybe you should have pulled up your bootstraps and become a baseball player.

 

In seriousness, I've never understood the hate for professional athletes and their salaries. Sure, if a guy gets paid and stinks, I get the booing. But they've got unique talents - like actors, writers, etc - and they get paid the going rate. Comparing a baseball player's job, or that of a world class symphony conductor to mine is apples and oranges.

 

[LVTwinsfan]

If you like the benefits that baseball players get, maybe you should have pulled up your bootstraps and become a baseball player.

Maybe I should have learned to hit a curve ball

[LVTwinsfan]

Oh, I know, just hassling you a bit because it’s funny.

Im trying to be honest, I already know I don’t share the popular opinion, I’m not completely deaf to it though.

[LVTwinsfan]

The discussion itself is what’s important. Listening is important. It’s not so much important to sway people’s views, if we just listen, even a little to each other progress is made.

[LVTwinsfan]

If you like the benefits that baseball players get, maybe you should have pulled up your bootstraps and become a baseball player.

 

In seriousness, I've never understood the hate for professional athletes and their salaries. Sure, if a guy gets paid and stinks, I get the booing. But they've got unique talents - like actors, writers, etc - and they get paid the going rate. Comparing a baseball player's job, or that of a world class symphony conductor to mine is apples and oranges.

Ive never hated a player for what he made. Mauer took a lot of heat for his salary. My response was always, the Yankees would have paid him more. Whatever your job, your pay is the agreement between you and your employer. No one else’s business imo

[twinbythebay]

 

cmon, you can’t presume to know anything about me, you can’t tell me what I’ve made up my mind about, I wouldn’t do that to you. It’s an unfair criticism, implying I have some character flaw

I'm not presuming anything about your or your character, and I'm not trying to personally attack you. I apologize if I came off that way. But you're on here making the exact same judgments about Kaepernick's intentions that you're accusing me of making towards you, and the evidence just doesn't support that. Do you remember how long it was between the time he was cut and blackballed and the time when he got that Nike deal?

 

Anyway, this is kinda off topic and it doesn't seem like we'll see eye to eye on it anyway. I think I've made the points that I wanted to make.

[DocBauer]

Everything about this year is weird, crazy, scary, frustrating, pick your description.

 

I do not believe that any sort or cancellation or walk out of a season of a pro sport...as has been speculated here and there...does anything to solve anything. In fact, I believe playing has the opposite effect in so many ways. Not only providing joy and entertainment in a crazy world, but a continued platform for observance and discussion.

 

We can, if we want to, question professional athletes as voices in society. And perhaps we should. Does, for arguement sake, a stud PG in the NBA really have answers? Should his opinion on anything really sway anyone?

 

It's interesting to me how we can celebrate humanitarian awards for pro athletes for community work and yet object if they want to make a statement about society. Now, they are a solitary voice and have their own opinions. And it's very debatable to me as to whether we listen to their voice.

 

But that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about TEAMS taking a stand, if only for a day, to just say out loud; "we're united in the idea that change has to take place. We may not have answers. But we stand united for a day to get everyone thinking and talking."

 

I fully applaud that stance. A day without games or practice to just get everyone talking and thinking is a positive idea. And the one thing about sports I have always loved is the mix of race and social/economic background to come together and make a TEAM.

 

These TEAMS are taking a day for a "time out" for pause for all of us.

[LVTwinsfan]

Everything about this year is weird, crazy, scary, frustrating, pick your description.

 

I do not believe that any sort or cancellation or walk out of a season of a pro sport...as has been speculated here and there...does anything to solve anything. In fact, I believe playing has the opposite effect in so many ways. Not only providing joy and entertainment in a crazy world, but a continued platform for observance and discussion.

 

We can, if we want to, question professional athletes as voices in society. And perhaps we should. Does, for arguement sake, a stud PG in the NBA really have answers? Should his opinion on anything really sway anyone?

 

It's interesting to me how we can celebrate humanitarian awards for pro athletes for community work and yet object if they want to make a statement about society. Now, they are a solitary voice and have their own opinions. And it's very debatable to me as to whether we listen to their voice.

 

But that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about TEAMS taking a stand, if only for a day, to just say out loud; "we're united in the idea that change has to take place. We may not have answers. But we stand united for a day to get everyone thinking and talking."

 

I fully applaud that stance. A day without games or practice to just get everyone talking and thinking is a positive idea. And the one thing about sports I have always loved is the mix of race and social/economic background to come together and make a TEAM.

 

These TEAMS are taking a day for a "time out" for pause for all of us.

well they got us talking, so there’s that

[TheLeviathan]

 

The discussion itself is what’s important. Listening is important. It’s not so much important to sway people’s views, if we just listen, even a little to each other progress is made.

 

Have you though?  I see two pages of polite attempts to correct your stance on Kaepernick and I don't see much evidence you've taken any of it to heart.  That isn't to say you need to feel differently about standing or kneeling for the anthem, but it is to say that many of your thoughts surrounding the man and the choices he made range from misinformed to downright false.

 

It's easy to say a conversation is productive and listening is good, but in the end those are words.  A conversation and a genuine effort to listen requires the ability to ask questions, reform ideas, rethink your positions, and consult new sources. It requires a commitment to be better in our opinions. In Kaepernick, I think you've found your starting point.  And, if you choose to actually take this opportunity....THEN the conversation can become an opportunity for progress rather than merely an exchanging of words.

[Aggies7]

Have you though?  I see two pages of polite attempts to correct your stance on Kaepernick and I don't see much evidence you've taken any of it to heart.  That isn't to say you need to feel differently about standing or kneeling for the anthem, but it is to say that many of your thoughts surrounding the man and the choices he made range from misinformed to downright false.

 

It's easy to say a conversation is productive and listening is good, but in the end those are words.  A conversation and a genuine effort to listen requires the ability to ask questions, reform ideas, rethink your positions, and consult new sources. It requires a commitment to be better in our opinions. In Kaepernick, I think you've found your starting point.  And, if you choose to actually take this opportunity....THEN the conversation can has become an opportunity rather than merely an exchanging of words.

Lol it’s totally fine to have a “negative” opinion on the guy...I must have missed his coronation?

[LVTwinsfan]

Have you though? I see two pages of polite attempts to correct your stance on Kaepernick and I don't see much evidence you've taken any of it to heart. That isn't to say you need to feel differently about standing or kneeling for the anthem, but it is to say that many of your thoughts surrounding the man and the choices he made range from misinformed to downright false.

 

It's easy to say a conversation is productive and listening is good, but in the end those are words. A conversation and a genuine effort to listen requires the ability to ask questions, reform ideas, rethink your positions, and consult new sources. It requires a commitment to be better in our opinions. In Kaepernick, I think you've found your starting point. And, if you choose to actually take this opportunity....THEN the conversation can has become an opportunity rather than merely an exchanging of words.

lol, I stand by my posts, and I have my own mind, I dont need to better my opinions, my opinions are my opinions, I believe Kaepernick is a fraud, sorry if that offends you, that’s not my intention

[nicksaviking]

 

lol, I stand by my posts, and I have my own mind, I dont need to better my opinions, my opinions are my opinions, I believe Kaepernick is a fraud, sorry if that offends you, that’s not my intention

 

It doesn't matter if you think Kaepernick is a fraud, 100% complete immaterial. Everyone needs to ask themselves if what he is saying rings true. Forget about his motives, forget if it's Kaepernick or Fred from down the street bringing this up; the only question people need to be thinking about is, "Are black citizens being treated equally in this country?"

 

If not, are you willing to make the sacrifices needed to fix it?

[denarded]

This is sports. Not politics. My boss wouldn't let me sit out of my $30/hr job because I needed to protest/represent something I felt. Make your statement on your dumb social media platforms and get on the field and play for the reason you get paid what you do. Fans who want to watch on tv or in person in the future. Never giving another dime to mlb

[LVTwinsfan]

It doesn't matter if you think Kaepernick is a fraud, 100% complete immaterial. Everyone needs to ask themselves if what he is saying rings true. Forget about his motives, forget if it's Kaepernick or Fred from down the street bringing this up; the only question people need to be thinking about is, "Are black citizens being treated equally in this country?"

 

If not, are you willing to make the sacrifices needed to fix it?

This is where I disagree, because I don’t have to ask myself anything. I don’t have to join a movement or sacrifice anything here. I don’t need to be told how to treat people, that’s easy, should be easy for everyone. It’s shameful that it’s not.

[twinbythebay]

 

lol, I stand by my posts, and I have my own mind, I dont need to better my opinions, my opinions are my opinions, I believe Kaepernick is a fraud, sorry if that offends you, that’s not my intention

"Kaepernick pledged to donate $1 million to "organizations working in oppressed communities." He donated $25,000 to the Mothers Against Police Brutality organization that was started by Collette Flanagan, whose son fell victim to police brutality. In 2018, Kaepernick announced that he would make the final $100,000 donation of his "Million Dollar Pledge" in the form of $10,000 donations to charities that would be matched by celebrities. Also in 2016, Kaepernick and his partner Nessa founded the "Know Your Rights Camp", an organization which held free seminars to disadvantaged youths to teach them about self-empowerment, American history, and legal rights."

 

He did that stuff before his big Nike deal. He's walked the walk as much as any athlete out there, so you're welcome to your opinion that he's a "fraud", but that opinion simply isn't based in reality.

[GNess]

The idea that the players, by not reporting to work as it were, are doing something wrong is a strange way to see it. It's between the players and their employers and if their employers give them a day off why is that offensive to anyone else? Particularly when they are taking a day off for something they consider of fundamental importance.

[Seth Stohs]

 

What if your boss supported your decision?

 

I still wouldn't get paid.

 

I believe that the African American players around the league have donated their paychecks for the day or days to social justice organizations. I'd be very good if the Twins players, in conjunction with the organization, decided to donate their Thursday pay to a quality organization. 

[gil4]

 

Well, I'll say it if nobody else will - I am proud of our Twins.

I am not

[gil4]

 

It doesn't matter if you think Kaepernick is a fraud, 100% complete immaterial. Everyone needs to ask themselves if what he is saying rings true. 

It doesn't ring true.

[TFRazor]

Maybe we should all wait to find out what actually happened before making everlasting declarations. That way we don’t all end up looking like tool bags.

[gunnarthor]

 

This is sports. Not politics. My boss wouldn't let me sit out of my $30/hr job because I needed to protest/represent something I felt. Make your statement on your dumb social media platforms and get on the field and play for the reason you get paid what you do. Fans who want to watch on tv or in person in the future. Never giving another dime to mlb

The players have managed to work hard enough that the comparison to your job is completely irrelevant. You are a replaceable cog. They are not. They have power. They used it.

 

I've been very impressed by professional athletes these last few years - they've been, often enough, better leaders than our politicians. I'm very proud of the Twins today.

[nicksaviking]

*****Moderator Note*****

 

Please stay on topic. Discussing moderation, closed threads or free speech only serves to derail the thread and is against posting policies.

[VivaBomboRivera!]

It doesn't ring true.

C: Oh look, this isn't an argument!

A: (pause) Yes it is!

C: No it isn't! It's just contradiction!

A: No it isn't!

C: It IS!

A: It is NOT!

C: You just contradicted me!

A: No I didn't!

C: You DID!

A: No no no!

C: You did just then!

A: Nonsense!

C: (exasperated) Oh, this is futile!!

A: (pause) No it isn't.

C: Yes it is! I came here for a good argument!

A: No you didn't, you came here for an argument!

C: An argument isn't just contradiction.

A: Well! it CAN be!

C: No it can't! An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.

A: No it isn't!

C: Yes it is! It isn't just contradiction!

A: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!

C: Yes but that isn't just saying 'no it isn't'.

A: Yes it is!

C: No it isn't!

A: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

A: Yes it is!

C: No it ISN'T! Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.

A: It is NOT!

C: It is!

A: Not at all!

C: It is!

A: (hits a bell on his desk) Thank you, that's it.

C: (surprised) What?

O: That's it. Good morning!

[etwink]

Given the number of sporting events that had already been cancelled, the fact that the guys knew that the game was going to be made up anyway (baseball has doubleheaders and MLB had literally no choice but to go along with it or be savaged by the thought-police), and the fact that they were all going to be paid anyway, I sure hope that NO ONE in this thread is calling either the Twins or Tigers players “brave”.  They literally were risking nothing with their decision.  At best, they are copy-cats.  At worst, they only made the decision to fit in with the rest of the boycotters.

 

Pohlad donating $25M...sure he’ll write it off, but that was an actual, tangible, sacrifice.

[etwink]

 

I still wouldn't get paid.

 

I believe that the African American players around the league have donated their paychecks for the day or days to social justice organizations. I'd be very good if the Twins players, in conjunction with the organization, decided to donate their Thursday pay to a quality organization. 

Yes.  If they actually lost something out of their protests, THAT would be brave.  All the rest of this just can look like a phoney “me too” (not the movement, just the concept) show just to fit in with everyone else.