Article: Ben Revere Traded to Philly for RHP Vance Worley & Top Pitching Prospect

[Brock Beauchamp]

Care to reconsider your evaluation or did Ryan do a major hose job on the Phillies?

 

Oh, Ryan hosed the Phillies, without a doubt.

 

And I was never that down on Revere's value. I thought he had a decent chance of maintaining his value through 2013, which is when I hoped he'd be traded (though I always said if an offer was there, take it and run like hell).

 

But I never valued him very high. There's a difference between how I value a guy and how one of 29 other general managers might value that guy. I don't believe I ever said the Twins couldn't get value for Revere, I simply said that extending him was ludicrous because his ceiling was relatively low (and that I think no-hit speedsters are a mistake in general).

[jokin]

I was with you on this one Riverbrian. I hate to lose Revere but it's no surprise to me the Twins got more for Revere than they did for Span

 

Let's just say more than just a few TD regulars are stunned at the haul the Twins got. I'm pleasantly and enthusiastically "surprised" that the Twins could pull this off---

as they have historically tended to undervalue their assets and overvalue their acquisition targets.

[Dilligaf69]

Don't see us paying for Marcum but 2 of Liriano/Lannan/Myers/Saunders is a possibility...for sure 1 of em???

[DaveW]

This means Hicks is the new starting centerfielder and lead-off man for Twins. He will probably struggle, and flop spots for Benson in the minors, but both will be up here by midseason. Next up to leave is Morneau, unfortunately. Twins might be able to solve a bullpen spot, and 3B for Morneau, with Parmalee moving to 1B. All these moves make the Twins more than competitive in 2nd half of 2013 moving forward.

 

I could see him having a very similar season to Torri Hunter's rookie season. Hicks like Hunter is already there defensively, his bat has shown promise and progress in the minors but I wouldn't be shocked to see him struggle a bit. (10HR and a .675 OPS or so). As long as he isn't hitting like Butera I think they should let him take his lumps until he truely "loses" the psot.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It has been reported that our plan this whole time has been to sign one free agent pitcher, was it not? That makes me feel way better in that aspect as well.

 

Now the question is.....WHO?!

 

I'm hoping Marcum. Marcum, Worley, Diamond and Gibson in the front 4. Not great, but it's a start...

 

If you told me that'd be the 2013 rotation a month ago and the loss from the deal was virtually nothing (considering the Twins ALSO got May for Revere), I would have been pleased as punch.

[jokin]

Care to reconsider your evaluation or did Ryan do a major hose job on the Phillies?

 

Oh, Ryan hosed the Phillies, without a doubt.

 

And I was never that down on Revere's value. I thought he had a decent chance of maintaining his value through 2013, which is when I hoped he'd be traded (though I always said if an offer was there, take it and run like hell).

 

But I never valued him very high. There's a difference between how I value a guy and how one of 29 other general managers might value that guy. I don't believe I ever said the Twins couldn't get value for Revere, I simply said that extending him was ludicrous because his ceiling was relatively low (and that I think no-hit speedsters are a mistake in general).

 

I'll stand by my prediction that if he has a strong season in a ballpark favorable to what he does best, the Phillies consider extension talks in the offseason.

[Jim H]

If Worley and May both are/become quality major league starters, this is a very good trade for the Twins. I do think it shows that many have undervalued Revere. We will see what happens, but Revere can hit and will I think, be a very good player for a good long time. The Twins gave up something to get something.

 

The Twins also must have a fair amount of confidence that Hicks is close to reaching his potential.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

Exactly.....Is Morneau and Willingham next?!

 

Hard to say. I think they'll open the season with both, really.

 

But if there is still a market for outfielders, I'm sure Ryan will listen. After all, there are divisions outside the NL East that might need an outfielder.

 

Could Willingham get better players than Revere just did? I have a feeling Twins are quietly listening to what Morneau and Willingham could recieve. I honestly dont think this is the last trade we are going to make. I have a feeling one of those 2 will be traded for a pitcher.

 

I don't think Willingham or Morneau have that kind of value. I think both have better value at the trade deadline when a team (say Pitt) needs a power bat to stay in the race and the fans demand it.

 

That said, Ryan has pulled off two pretty nice trades already so Willingham for Bauer must be next.

 

If Willingham could get anything close for Bauer that would be amazing lol! Lets hope TR has some more trick up his sleeve.

[DaveW]

I agree with Kab, this doesn't mean 2013 is punted at this point. They just filled one of their middle rotation spots with a guy who is making the minimum (rather then overpaying for a Dempster like guy). That frees up even more potential money for "better" pitchers then crappy ones on the free agent market.

 

There is a very good chance that Hicks has a better season then Revere anyways, and Mastro is a perfectly fine 4th OF, so it's not like we will be missing having Revere on the bench that much. At least Mastro has some value with his bat/pop (though not a lot)

[johnnydakota]

Wow, amazing trade.

 

The TR haters should be eating a lot of Crow these days.

 

Also, Philly fans will looooooovvveeeeee Revere...haha.

 

chomp chomp chomp , yup a big crow-wich for me , terry did good...

now who plays center and do we look to upgrade shortstop , maybe look west to the rockie there?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'll stand by my prediction that if he has a strong season in a ballpark favorable to what he does best, the Phillies consider extension talks in the offseason.

 

And I'd still consider it a mistake but I think Revere will do better in the NL and that ballpark than he ever would in Target Field.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

It has been reported that our plan this whole time has been to sign one free agent pitcher, was it not? That makes me feel way better in that aspect as well.

 

Now the question is.....WHO?!

 

I'm hoping Marcum. Marcum, Worley, Diamond and Gibson in the front 4. Not great, but it's a start...

 

If you told me that'd be the 2013 rotation a month ago and the loss from the deal was virtually nothing (considering the Twins ALSO got May for Revere), I would have been pleased as punch.

 

If we could get both Marcum and McCarthy...and have...

 

1. Marcum

2. McCarthy

3. Diamond

4. Worley

5 Gibson

 

I would be pretty happy with that starting rotation!

[jokin]

It has been reported that our plan this whole time has been to sign one free agent pitcher, was it not? That makes me feel way better in that aspect as well.

 

Now the question is.....WHO?!

 

I'm hoping Marcum. Marcum, Worley, Diamond and Gibson in the front 4. Not great, but it's a start...

 

If you told me that'd be the 2013 rotation a month ago and the loss from the deal was virtually nothing (considering the Twins ALSO got May for Revere), I would have been pleased as punch.

 

Concur. However, is it more than 50% certain that Gibson breaks with the team in April in the rotation? I'd say it's still highly doubtful, especially if they decide on a specific inning limitation. I also am not holding my breath that they get Marcum unless they move Willingham or Morneau.

[revdrev]

Great trade pretting effin excited for the return we got. Everyone...go to church this weekend and pray that Worley is not going to have Tommy John eventually. Someone tried to tell me the other day CFs have no value this year...look what we just got for Revere! Grade Trade...very excited.....!

 

Posted this elsewhere.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/No-Tommy-John-surgery-necessary-for-Phillies-Vance-Worley.html

[ltwedt]

Great trade - suddenly I'm back on TR's band wagon!

[071063]

Do you think they will start with Hick is CF day 1? I don't believe they will. I think they will let him get his feet wet at AAA and use Mastro in CF, along with maybe Benson or Arcia. Then maybe mid-season or so, if Hicks has done well at AAA, bring him up. Thoughts?

[DaveW]

If Worley and May both are/become quality major league starters, this is a very good trade for the Twins. I do think it shows that many have undervalued Revere. We will see what happens, but Revere can hit and will I think, be a very good player for a good long time. The Twins gave up something to get something.

 

The Twins also must have a fair amount of confidence that Hicks is close to reaching his potential.

 

Hicks style of play may be better served in the NL, but I still see no way he manages to get a .700 OPS year in and year out. Until he can even reach that modest number he is nothing more then a stop gap CF and a 4th OF.

[greengoblinrulz]

without question, a solid solid deal that will ripple down the minors.

It is curious tho how Ryans disdain for FA affected this as I believe he really wanted to use FA but wont pay the market price for a pitcher.

Revere is an OK player (great speed/defense) but I was worried about his OBP as a fulltime leadoff hitter, so Im very happy to see him go. Truly think Mastro can do everything that Revere can....on a shortterm basis untill the Aaron Hicks era starts.

With the AAA rotation full, & May not dominating AA....that's where I see him starting the year with Meyer. Agree or not??

More happy with the upcoming season now knowing that its getting ready for 2014 than trying to compete this year with the Florimon types in the lineup. Makes you wonder when the trigger is pulled on Justin/ WIlly

[DaveW]

Do you think they will start with Hick is CF day 1? I don't believe they will. I think they will let him get his feet wet at AAA and use Mastro in CF, along with maybe Benson or Arcia. Then maybe mid-season or so, if Hicks has done well at AAA, bring him up. Thoughts?

 

I think it will be a true open competition coming to ST, with it being Hicks job to lose. If he has a nice spring, he is on the roster off the bat IMO.

[luckylager]

Wooo - Freakin'-Hoooo!! Sweet deal, TR! Hope Hicks is ready for the big time.

[joeboo_22]

I think Willingham can bring a good return now, but he could bring more at the deadline if he has a solid season. Morneau, and who knows with some of these trades and contracts being handed out, I see with much more upside trading at the deadline then now, unless someone really loves him.

 

As for the trade, its a great return, I'm not a TR fan, but he isn't too bad when it comes to trades, its more dumb signings and bad day to day (DL, call ups) that drive me nuts.

 

As for who plays in CF, I think some of it comes to spring training, don't know if they want to put Hicks out there right away, though I think it is prolly his to lose, see how Benson comes back from injury, he had a rough year injury wise. The one issue I have with him is I don't know if he can play CF with Parmelee and Willingham at the corners.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Do you think they will start with Hick is CF day 1? I don't believe they will. I think they will let him get his feet wet at AAA and use Mastro in CF, along with maybe Benson or Arcia. Then maybe mid-season or so, if Hicks has done well at AAA, bring him up. Thoughts?

 

This is what I'd like to see.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Concur. However, is it more than 50% certain that Gibson breaks with the team in April in the rotation? I'd say it's still highly doubtful, especially if they decide on a specific inning limitation. I also am not holding my breath that they get Marcum unless they move Willingham or Morneau.

 

No, I think Gibson's chance of being in the Opening Day rotation is very much in the air.

 

But now that the Twins have at least $25m to spend (based on current payroll and last year's number), they're going to have to go get somebody (or, more likely, multiple cheaper somebodies).

 

I think the chances of going after some middle infield help has risen dramatically in the past hour.

[cmathewson]

Will Joe Benson be starting in center field on opening day? Whereas Hicks may be the centerfielder of the short-term future, I doubt the Twins believe he will be ready on opening day. More likely sometime next summer. As for Benson, everything possible went wrong last year including two serious injuries (hamate bone and knee). What effect that had on his dismal season is unknown, however, one has to assume it had a real effect. If 100% healthy in spring, he just could report to Fort Myers and 'win' the starting centerfield job. On the other hand, Mr. Ryan will probably scrounge around for someone to compete with Mastroianni for center/4th outfielder should neither of the close kids win the job.

 

But right this very minute, Hicks is ahead of Benson. Benson had a horrible year last year, getting demoted twice. I know some of that was due to the hamate bone and resulting surgery. But he started slow and never got going. Hicks got going and continued through the fall land Winter leagues. Hicks is my favorite to win the job out of spring training.

[jokin]

I'll stand by my prediction that if he has a strong season in a ballpark favorable to what he does best, the Phillies consider extension talks in the offseason.

 

And I'd still consider it a mistake but I think Revere will do better in the NL and that ballpark than he ever would in Target Field.

 

I fully agree, he's made for the NL and that park and a classy organization. I wish him the best. I just don't like the supposed Twins fans on a Twins blog who still want to get one more kick at a guy- who's done nothing wrong- as he's going out the door.

[JB_Iowa]

This is the kind of trade I've been waiting to see from Terry Ryan -- glad to see he still has the contacts, skill and guts to make it happen.

 

But I will miss Revere's grin.

 

Please let some of the call-ups and additions bring some excitement because right not the Twins look like a very boring team.

[E. Andrew]

Do you think they will start with Hick is CF day 1? I don't believe they will. I think they will let him get his feet wet at AAA and use Mastro in CF, along with maybe Benson or Arcia. Then maybe mid-season or so, if Hicks has done well at AAA, bring him up. Thoughts?

 

This is what I'd like to see.

 

Agree that this probably is the smartest move.

[jokin]

Will Joe Benson be starting in center field on opening day? Whereas Hicks may be the centerfielder of the short-term future, I doubt the Twins believe he will be ready on opening day. More likely sometime next summer. As for Benson, everything possible went wrong last year including two serious injuries (hamate bone and knee). What effect that had on his dismal season is unknown, however, one has to assume it had a real effect. If 100% healthy in spring, he just could report to Fort Myers and 'win' the starting centerfield job. On the other hand, Mr. Ryan will probably scrounge around for someone to compete with Mastroianni for center/4th outfielder should neither of the close kids win the job.

 

But right this very minute, Hicks is ahead of Benson. Benson had a horrible year last year, getting demoted twice. I know some of that was due to the hamate bone and resulting surgery. But he started slow and never got going. Hicks got going and continued through the fall land Winter leagues. Hicks is my favorite to win the job out of spring training.

 

Do you think the Twins don't routinely promote the inferior guy, if in their mind it's a better business decision?

[Oxtung]

Do you think they will start with Hick is CF day 1? I don't believe they will. I think they will let him get his feet wet at AAA and use Mastro in CF, along with maybe Benson or Arcia. Then maybe mid-season or so, if Hicks has done well at AAA, bring him up. Thoughts?

 

This is what I'd like to see.

 

Agreed. Hicks has zero PA's above AA. Let him get a few months at AAA then let's reevaluate. That also should prevent him from reaching super 2 status. I think the most interesting question is what happens with Benson?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'll stand by my prediction that if he has a strong season in a ballpark favorable to what he does best, the Phillies consider extension talks in the offseason.

 

And I'd still consider it a mistake but I think Revere will do better in the NL and that ballpark than he ever would in Target Field.

 

I fully agree, he's made for the NL and that park and a classy organization. I wish him the best. I just don't like the supposed Twins fans on a Twins blog who still want to get one more kick at a guy- who's done nothing wrong- as he's going out the door.

 

Generally, I only kick the player, not the person. I like Revere. He's a blast to watch. He seems like a great guy who just wants to play baseball.

 

But as a player, I don't think he's very good. That doesn't mean I wish him ill or anything, I just don't see his skillset playing out over the longterm.