Electronic strike zone

[4twinsJA]

Umps making it hard to argue against electronic strike zone. There was mystifying Kepler at bat last week and Royal pitcher threw one right down middle of plate thigh high and called a ball. Maybe there is a compromise out there , like only the ump getting notification of ball/strike. Presently too inconsistent and just head scratching calls at times.

[stringer bell]

I don't know if it is the weird season or something else, but the ball and strike calls seem to have been dreadful this year. The Twins have had the Jerry Meals crew for seemingly half of their games (or more) and maybe they are substandard. Meals himself had one of the worst games this year, perhaps ever IMHO. Hickox (sp) last night was really bad too.

 

ONTH I recall two games that were excellent. One was by the tall rookie ump in the Meals crew and the other was a young ump, perhaps Hispanic, I can't remember his name.

[DocBauer]

Absolutely som3 of the most egregiously bad umpiring I have ever witnessed in all my years of watching baseball. The Meals/Kepler incident should have resulted in some sort of suspension. Yes, it was that bad.

 

The blown fastball from the Royals last night? You would literally have to be half blind not to call that. It was at least 3-4" from being too high.

 

But I agree with Stringer that I have also seen some well called games this year.

 

I've noticed somem inconsistencies with corner calls, but that is always the case.

 

The problem with robot umps comes from the Twins batters themselves when it was used during the summer ramp up. I can't recall whether it was vertical or horizontal calls they objected to so strongly, but they clearly saw inaccuracies.

[Vanimal46]

I guess umps need a spring training too. If electronic strike zones are forced upon them next year and they ask why? There are plenty of videos showing why they need it. Like this one:

 

[Rosterman]

And the catcher then sit further back so batters won't hit the glove!

 

[Doctor Gast]

I`ve been a big supporter of robo ump, too many miss calls. W/ the pandemic there was serious talk about installing it & thought it was a done deal w/ all the fears of umps getting covid. I was disappointed that it wasn`t. I guess those who benefited the most from those miss call was more important than the fears of covid. 

[Craig Arko]

If you’re going to electrify the strike zone it should be done with cattle prods. The cable networks will love it.

[ashbury]

I guess umps need a spring training too. If electronic strike zones are forced upon them next year and they ask why? There are plenty of videos showing why they need it. Like this one:

"Sorry, wasn't watching. Can you throw that exact same pitch again?"

 

[DocBauer]

I am going to argue against robot umps for balls and strikes until they work out the bugs. Players have to make adjustments for the human factor and different umps who interpret the strike zone differently. We can debate if it's fair or right, but it is the reality of the game. (Not even going to get in to other sports!)

 

But the reality is the Twins used robot umps in the summer ramp up. And the opinion of the players is that it was not accurate. Again, sorry, but I can't recall if their objections were related to vertical or horizontal calls, but they seemed to feel there were real discrepancies. But if that ST 2.0 test could provide useful information going forward I'd be OK to re-visit robot umps in the future.

 

As of right now, probably in a more normal year without some umps opting out, I'm much more in favor of MLB having a better grading system to suspend/demote and promote positive reviews.

[notoriousgod71]

Just eliminate everything all-together and make it a simulation so no one actually has to do anything. I'll check back in a week to review the box scores.

 

 

[Number3]

Every batter technically has a different strike zone plus they are constantly moving around and some stand upright while others crouch more. I can't imagine how the electronic box can be 100% accurate either since no two boxes are the same. Maybe every player could have some kind of sensor sewed into their uniform. I guess what I am saying is that if balls and strikes are called based upon that box, how is the box itself 100% accurate for every player? Maybe the strike zone should be the same for every player. I'm sure the < 6' guys would love that ha. Not objecting, just asking.

[ashbury]

Maybe every player could have some kind of sensor sewed into their uniform.

I am sure the Astros will be unable to find a way around this failsafe plan.

 

[Paul]

"the Twins used robot umps in the summer ramp up. And the opinion of the players is that it was not accurate."

We're talking about a fairly mature technology. Electronic sensing has been around for some time and can be extremely accurate. It's relied on millions of times daily for personal protection in manufacturing facilities around the world. It senses what it is set to sense. I think the players were witnessing the sensing of a strike zone unfamiliar to them.

 

"Every batter technically has a different strike zone plus they are constantly moving around and some stand upright while others crouch more. I can't imagine how the electronic box can be 100% accurate either since no two boxes are the same."

It seems to me every player could be easily measured and an agreed upon zone established for that player

 

 

[amjgt]

The first week of electronic strike zones I'm going to bet the under on every single MLB game.

[Trov]

I have been, and will continue to be an advocate for electronic strike zone.  I have heard claims it has bugs, those from Rob Manfred specifically, but if you use the tech to grade your ups, why can you not use it as the ump?  I mean you review how accurate they are by grading against the electronic zone, so the zone must be better than the ups, right?  If our goal is to have the most accurate calls, assuming that is the goal it is in my book, you should go with the electronic zone.  

 

It will take players some time to adjust and just like all changes will get put in minor league and fall league first.  However, once you have adjusted it will be second nature.  Being an accurate home plate ump might be hardest job in ump/reffing.  You have a ball coming on average 90 plus at you, with several inches of movement down, left, or right.  You need to make the call in split second.  It is no wonder they get it wrong.  You cannot blame the umps it is not easy.  

 

I have listened to people argue, human error is part of the game, but does it have to be?  I may have been for years, but if we can take that away why not do it?  I have heard that they get around 90% right and over 300 pitches in a game that is only 30 wrong and they are normally boarder line.  Okay, that may be true but sometimes that 1 bad call changes the whole game.  Last Hill start he had a pitch that fox track had in the zone.  It would have ended inning with only 2 runs in, but then guy walked and 2 more runs came in and eventually hill was pulled.  So one pitch against him and whole game changes, and possibly future games because of pen usage.  If it goes the other way where what should have been a ball is called a strike and inning ends Royals are out two more runs and maybe hill comes back and shuts them down rest of the game.  So much from a single pitch can change the outcome of a game or possible series.

 

If we can get it as close to right as we can and consistent, which is the most frustrating part of it.  You get the same pitch called over and over the same way, but then you do not get it that way later on, it is frustrating.  So many times pitches are in the zone but because the catcher had to reach or catch funny they get called wrong, or player is upset because he thinks it was wrong, Franko last series when cross up and avila catches in gut, it was clear strike but he was mad because it looked odd.  Opposite is true when catcher "frame" well and steal strikes because of how little they move the glove. 

 

For me, get it right as much as possible. Have consistent zone for all involved. 

[shimrod]

"For me, get it right as much as possible. Have consistent zone for all involved."

 

Agreed. Even if the electronic zone is "wrong" by an inch or so it should at least be consistent for the entire game. The players will figure it out soon enough. 

 

 

 

[stringer bell]

What I’ve seen is real inconsistency by the live umps and makes the players have no idea whether the borderline low/high/inside/outside pitch will be called a strike.

 

If an ump is consistent giving or taking a couple inches, the players can adjust, if he’s not, it’s a crapshoot.

[kenbuddha]

 

Every batter technically has a different strike zone plus they are constantly moving around and some stand upright while others crouch more. I can't imagine how the electronic box can be 100% accurate either since no two boxes are the same.

In the technology world using video to find rectangles is actually pretty easy to do. Even moving rectangles are pretty easy to deal with. Big rectangles driving down the road are found every day by video. I'm not really sure what's all that difficult about it. Radar guns have been able to pick up baseballs for decades now. Combine the two at a fixed position and it seems like it should be something they could dial in in a short amount of time. On the other hand, I'm not the one implementing it. My best to them.
 

Initially I guarantee a large number of batters will think they know how to game the system by dancing/crouching/etc. It'll look like Don Knotts is up there. Could be fun.

[h2oface]

 

.....The problem with robot umps comes from the Twins batters themselves when it was used during the summer ramp up. I can't recall whether it was vertical or horizontal calls they objected to so strongly, but they clearly saw inaccuracies.

 

This is not really a problem. If an umpire('s) call(s) has always been wrong and inconsistent, and now a consistent accurate system based on the rule applied is set in place, some of the calls will certainly take adjusting to. That doesn't mean there were inaccuracies, as much as the batters will take some adjustment time, just like ramping up in spring training. The pitchers will have to adjust to, to actually throwing strikes, instead of relying on the catcher trying to cheat the call with "pitch framing" and fool the umpire. The pitcher will get some strikes, that they never got before, too, because their pitch really did enter, just barely, into the zone on angled trajectories. This change is already 5 years late, or more.

 

Consistently wrong, just because the wrongness is consistent, is still wrong. Over and over and over.

[Number3]

Now I get it. Watching the Nats-Phils game last night and Bryce Harper came up in the 9th inning. The top of the "box" for Harper was barely above his waste. So if you are among the game's elites, the box mysteriously shrinks. The idea of electronic calls of balls and strikes now makes perfect sense. The box technician controls the game.

[mikelink45]

It just seems so obvious.  Why not?  Do we like human error?  Do we like inconsistencies?  We use replay to make sure we get it right, but allow for lousy ball and strike calls.  Stop it.  Use the technology and keep making it better. 

[Number3]

Make sure the bad calls are intentional, not simple human error.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm all in favor of an electronic zone... IF... they can speed up the system. I haven't read to confirm but I've heard there's a noticeable delay in current systems, like a couple of seconds per pitch.

 

That's too slow over a baseball game that spans 300-ish pitches.

[Linus]

The pro tennis tournament that is currently underway is using exclusive electronic line calling. It’s great. The players just play without delays about line calls