MIN 4, MIL 3: Kenta Maeda Carries No-No Into 9th Inning; Twins Win In Extras

[USAFChief]

Should those lyrics be changed to include the - except if the batter is so fooled he swings at a pitch that even the catcher can't catch it, and then he has the opportunity to run to first base and even though the play is still ruled a strikeout, if he gets there before the ball gets there

We should automatically count it as an "out" if a batter hits a can of corn fly ball, too, amiright?

 

I didn't think I'd come to TD and read about the dropped third strike rule. Am I on the STrib game recap?

[PDX Twin]

Anybody else wondering that our two "fielding substitutions" at 2B and (to some extent) 1B combined to screw up the DP in the 9th? I'd bet that Arraez makes that throw and we win in 9. He may not have a lot of range, but he doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

[Westcoast2]

I believe it is time for Romo to become our closer, at least until Rogers comes around--if he ever does.

[AceWrigley]

I didn't think Vargas' relay throw from 2B was that bad, Marwin should have caught it. A lot of 4-letter words at my house in the 9th. Kudos to "Meatlocker" in the 10th. When the heck are we gonna pound somebody with a barrage of runs? How used to winning have we become . . . as we pick apart a victory. It was awesome to pick up the win, but then my Black Hawks lost to Las Vegas to get eliminated. It was a late night here on the east coast.

[mikelink45]

 

I believe it is time for Romo to become our closer, at least until Rogers comes around--if he ever does.

Or for now - maybe Alcala or Duffey

 

[mikelink45]

Wouldn't it have been nice to have Kiriloff, Rooker, or Larnach on the bench?  It's time to call someone up - we almost ran out of position players.

[Vanimal46]

 

I believe it is time for Romo to become our closer, at least until Rogers comes around--if he ever does.

Concur. Romo looks comfortable closing out games this year, and should remain in that role. I like Duffey in the fireman role who can come in anytime to shut down a rally. Rogers should spend a couple of weeks in low/mid leverage outings to get his swagger back. 

[4twinsJA]

Looks like HIll/Thorpe combo tonight. What I thought interesting last night was Rogers has pitched 8 innings coming into last night. Meada pitched 8 last night. Relievers have become one inning, every other day pitchers. What happened to multiple inning relievers. Teams are benefitting from expanded rosters this year but will need to make adjustments next year.

[Aerodeliria]

I agree with a couple of previous posters. Rogers' stuff looks completely hittable. His fastball doesn't seem to be moving very much and his slider/curve selections are just laying there. He was fortunate to escape the inning with only three runs despite the misplay in the field. 

[Alex Schieferdecker]

Super concerned about Rogers, but shoutout to Theilbar and especially Alcala for coming in and throwing three scoreless with a runner on second base every inning. Baldelli had little choice but to trust those guys, and they took their opportunity.

[Aerodeliria]

 

Wouldn't it have been nice to have Kiriloff, Rooker, or Larnach on the bench?  It's time to call someone up - we almost ran out of position players.

Totally concur here. We were in a fix for hitting by using those pinch runners and substitutions in the field.

 

[Trov]

 

Because the batter swings and misses at a nasty pitch and already struck out! HE IS OUT! HE STRUCK OUT! If the batter is fooled by a pitch so badly, that he swings at something that isn't even close, he should not get a second chance. And for the pitcher to get charged a wild pitch on a strikeout is ridiculous. I don't mind the runners advancing, but I too have always thought this is a most horrible rule. What other play in baseball can a player that has made an out advance to the nearest base. There is none. How and why did this ever become a rule?

Once the batter has swung and missed, he is already out. Runners can chose to advance at their own risk at anytime. But the batter is out. Or should be.

That being said.... because it is a rule, it really pisses me off when a batter is not paying attention and feeling sorry for themselves and just stands there and gets tagged out.

Should they get rid of the rule of foul tips caught is an out on third strike?  I mean they hit the ball foul why should it matter that the catcher managed to hold onto it?  How about when there is a ball inside and the hitter is diving out the way and the ball hits the bat should it be considered that it hit the bat or because the hitter clearly had no intention of hitting it and no where close to the strike zone it should be ball, even if it goes in play?  What about the rule that if you swing at a pitch but hit hit by the pitch it is a strike because you swung? 

 

The rule you are against is in, my guess, is to make the catcher do his job when no one is on first base or with 2 outs, as it only applies in those cases.  If not the catcher could let every ball go past, maybe even intentionally sit on opposite side of plate of the intended target.  If the rule is not in place I could see catchers doing all kinds of things to toy with hitters. I understand the hitter swung at a pitch out of the zone, but they catcher still has a job to do. 

 

To answer you question of when a player is out but then is not, it happens when there is ruled runner interference, many times instigated by the runner.  KC runner tried to get it earlier this year when they ran out of the baseline to run into Sano claiming Sano blocked his path.  Lucky the umps decided it was not interference, but if the runner was tagged out, the ump could over rule the out and say nope interference.  The sliding rule is another one, with sliding to home the catcher needs to give a lane to slide, if they are out but no lane given, provided the catcher did not have the ball prior to the slide, the runner is called safe and not out.  So there a few examples where a guy would have been out, but gets called safe.

[twinbythebay]

It looks to me like a lot of TDers are being too quick to throw Rogers under the bus and demanding Duffey or Romo be named the new closer. On one hand, given how good the bullpen has been, it's not totally preposterous to suggest this. Also, Rogers has now blown two saves, his ERA is up from 2.61 last year to 4.82 this year, and his WHIP is up from 1.00 last year to 1.39 this year.

 

BUT, looking at his underlying numbers, I propose that Rogers has been getting very unlucky so far this season, and Rocco should stick with him in the closer role for now.

 

Guess how many balls were hit hard off of Rogers last night? 0. Even that double down the line was only hit at 90mph, and it had an expected batting average of .100, according to statcast. The other two batters who didn't K against Rogers last night hit a soft bloop single and a soft ground ball that should've been a GIDP.

 

Looking at some more numbers for the season, Rogers's FIP and xFIP are actually about half a run lower this season than last, and the main reason we're not seeing that reflected in his ERA is his gaudy .423 BABIP (compared to .307 last year). Although Romo has had better results so far this season, I have less confidence in him going forward considering his miniscule .077 BABIP and a xFIP a full run higher than Rogers. The velocity of his pitches hasn't gone down since last year, and he's not walking a bunch of guys either.

 

I hope Rocco isn't as reactionary as 90% of TDers (in fact, I know he's not) and keeps putting Rogers out there in the biggest spots.

[BrianBuchanan]

 

It looks to me like a lot of TDers are being too quick to throw Rogers under the bus and demanding Duffey or Romo be named the new closer. On one hand, given how good the bullpen has been, it's not totally preposterous to suggest this. Also, Rogers has now blown two saves, his ERA is up from 2.61 last year to 4.82 this year, and his WHIP is up from 1.00 last year to 1.39 this year.

 

BUT, looking at his underlying numbers, I propose that Rogers has been getting very unlucky so far this season, and Rocco should stick with him in the closer role for now.

 

Guess how many balls were hit hard off of Rogers last night? 0. Even that double down the line was only hit at 90mph, and it had an expected batting average of .100, according to statcast. The other two batters who didn't K against Rogers last night hit a soft bloop single and a soft ground ball that should've been a GIDP.

 

Looking at some more numbers for the season, Rogers's FIP and xFIP are actually about half a run lower this season than last, and the main reason we're not seeing that reflected in his ERA is his gaudy .423 BABIP (compared to .307 last year). Although Romo has had better results so far this season, I have less confidence in him going forward considering his miniscule .077 BABIP and a xFIP a full run higher than Rogers. The velocity of his pitches hasn't gone down since last year, and he's not walking a bunch of guys either.

 

I hope Rocco isn't as reactionary as 90% of TDers (in fact, I know he's not) and keeps putting Rogers out there in the biggest spots.

 

Finally, a voice of reason.  Rogers is going to be fine.

[Doctor Gast]

Great game Kenta! cheers!

[twinbythebay]

I also want to give props to Thielbar's and Alcala's pitching performances. On the night after a bullpen game, when your closer blows the save, it's huge to have two back-end guys like that come in and have three shutdown innings with a runner starting on second. I'd also like to thank the boneheaded baserunning of Jed Gyorko and the generally anemic Brewers offense.

[GCTF]

 

I don’t get this — it was likely the 2nd most interesting/important half inning of the game, next to the game-winner. Of course I want to read about it! If you don’t want to dwell on it, that’s one thing, but to ignore it completely, dismissed with a meme? I had to miss much of this game and came first to TD to read the recap because I like this community and thought it would offer the best perspective, but I wound up recapping the rest of the game elsewhere. All of baseball, even the bad half-innings for the Twins, are part of my escape from actual bad stuff happening in 2020.

This. Maeda has a no-hitter through eight and the Twins are up by 3. Fast forward to the bottom of the ninth. Wait? What? Lol.

[Danchat]

 

It looks to me like a lot of TDers are being too quick to throw Rogers under the bus and demanding Duffey or Romo be named the new closer. On one hand, given how good the bullpen has been, it's not totally preposterous to suggest this. Also, Rogers has now blown two saves, his ERA is up from 2.61 last year to 4.82 this year, and his WHIP is up from 1.00 last year to 1.39 this year.

 

BUT, looking at his underlying numbers, I propose that Rogers has been getting very unlucky so far this season, and Rocco should stick with him in the closer role for now.

 

Guess how many balls were hit hard off of Rogers last night? 0. Even that double down the line was only hit at 90mph, and it had an expected batting average of .100, according to statcast. The other two batters who didn't K against Rogers last night hit a soft bloop single and a soft ground ball that should've been a GIDP.

 

Looking at some more numbers for the season, Rogers's FIP and xFIP are actually about half a run lower this season than last, and the main reason we're not seeing that reflected in his ERA is his gaudy .423 BABIP (compared to .307 last year). Although Romo has had better results so far this season, I have less confidence in him going forward considering his miniscule .077 BABIP and a xFIP a full run higher than Rogers. The velocity of his pitches hasn't gone down since last year, and he's not walking a bunch of guys either.

 

I hope Rocco isn't as reactionary as 90% of TDers (in fact, I know he's not) and keeps putting Rogers out there in the biggest spots.

That double was almost a HR and it had an expected batting average of .100? That wasn't bad luck, that was Garcia crushing a ball for an extra base hit... and then Rogers immediately lost the next guy and walked him. Only bad luck came on the double-play ball. 

 

I'm not giving up on Rogers, but you also didn't mention the game he lost to the Brewers last week when he gave up the 2 run HR to Gyorko. His stuff doesn't look as lethal as it was the first week this year / most of last year. I think it's a really foolish idea to throw him out there the next time we have a 1 run lead in the 9th, have Rogers get some work in the earlier innings to see if he can get his sharpness back.

[stringer bell]

 

Finally, a voice of reason.  Rogers is going to be fine.

I think he will be all right, but the breaking balls were up in the zone where it is much easier to lob over an infielder's head. Rogers has been far from overworked, and never really has had arm trouble. I suspect he'll be all right, but he really hasn't been sharp.

[stringer bell]

Garcia's double wasn't tremendously well hit, but it wasn't a pop fly either. Rogers allowed a bloop single and walked Yelich. With better luck, he gets an easy save, but he left a lot of breaking balls up.

 

I think Taylor Rogers should have been a All-Star last year. He was that good and worked many multiple innings in the first half of the season. He hasn't been as sharp this year and everything is magnified by the truncated season. The Twins have the luxury of being nearly certain to make the expanded playoffs, so I think they can get Rogers extra rope to find sharpness or make adjustments. 

[twinbythebay]

 

That double was almost a HR and it had an expected batting average of .100? That wasn't bad luck, that was Garcia crushing a ball for an extra base hit... and then Rogers immediately lost the next guy and walked him. Only bad luck came on the double-play ball. 

 

I'm not giving up on Rogers, but you also didn't mention the game he lost to the Brewers last week when he gave up the 2 run HR to Gyorko. His stuff doesn't look as lethal as it was the first week this year / most of last year. I think it's a really foolish idea to throw him out there the next time we have a 1 run lead in the 9th, have Rogers get some work in the earlier innings to see if he can get his sharpness back.

Hey, if you want to argue with Statcast, be my guest. That double was not a hard it ball (90mph), and the only reason it was a hit was because it was well-placed. Same with the bloop single that fell in front of Buxton. It happens. I also have a feeling that your "eye test" is based mostly on results, and if one or two more bounces had gone Rogers's way this season, you'd be raving about how he looks just as good as he looked last year. It's easy to see a bad result and just claim that Rogers's "stuff doesn't look as lethal" without having any evidence besides unlucky results to back up your claim.

[4twinsJA]

Like closer by committee, situational based, Rocco used Rogers in 8th the other night with couple LH hitters coming up. Put Duffy in the mix, I am not as confident on Romo as some of the other posters.

[joefish]

Kenta and I would both have been pissed off if he had been pulled while throwing a nono.

You do not take a guy out unless he says so. Amen.

From one former pitcher.

[Platoon]

 

I didn't think Vargas' relay throw from 2B was that bad, Marwin should have caught it. A lot of 4-letter words at my house in the 9th. Kudos to "Meatlocker" in the 10th. When the heck are we gonna pound somebody with a barrage of runs? How used to winning have we become . . . as we pick apart a victory. It was awesome to pick up the win, but then my Black Hawks lost to Las Vegas to get eliminated. It was a late night here on the east coast.

You must have missed all the posts that 1B defense isn’t important?

[Platoon]

 

We should automatically count it as an "out" if a batter hits a can of corn fly ball, too, amiright?

I didn't think I'd come to TD and read about the dropped third strike rule. Am I on the STrib game recap?

It never would have occurred to me that the dropped third strike was so controversial. But shows what I know. For that matter I don’t think that’s the most important or beneficial rules change for catchers as far as Twins Territory is concerned. I think that runners shouldn’t be allowed to advance on balls to the backstop. Nor leave the base till the pitch crosses the plate. Like they do in little league. Then we could finally transition to catchers whose only claim to talent is to hit. No glove responsibilities at all. That would then make them similar to the criteria for middle IF that we now employ! 

[John Kelsey]

I'm not too worried about Rogers but I've thought Duffey should be the closer since the beginning of the year, he's just the better pitcher. 

 

I'd have Duffey at closer with Romo and Rogers working 7th/8th and occasional save chances. 

[h2oface]

 

Should they get rid of the rule of foul tips caught is an out on third strike?  I mean they hit the ball foul why should it matter that the catcher managed to hold onto it? 

 

Ah.... the Connie Mack rule. The rules' predecessor was any ball tipped and caught was an out. Foul tip at any point. First or second strike, too. No, I don't advocate changing the current rule in place, at all.

 

https://peoplepill.com/people/connie-mack/

 

In addition to verbally needling batters to distract them, he developed skills such as blocking the plate to prevent base runners from scoring and faking the sound of a foul tip. (He was probably responsible for the 1891 rule change requiring that a batter must have two strikes against him in order to be called out if the catcher caught a foul tip.)

 

 

It would be nice to see Duffey get some shots in the ninth. He seems to be the most on his game of those in the pen. But I think Baldelli is trying some things, and still winning 2 out of 3 games. It really is pretty amazing to me. I mean, I certainly would not have picked Theilbar to come in at that stage of this game.

[wabene]

Roger's first few outings were totally dominant and efficient. I remember one he only need 5 pitches. So he did start out sharp, very sharp. I lean towards some bad luck and i would keep rotating roles and get him some good matchups in the near future then go from there.

[Monticore]

Duffy to close.

[h2oface]

Taylor Rogers is on the mum about this. I haven't seen a statement from him anywhere.