Twins Remove Calvin Griffith Statue

[twinstalker]

I skimmed the OP and didn't see the part about the "chant" which I'd forgotten about. Trust me, we used to make fun of him for that. I don't really care about statues, take his down. But what I do know is if social media was around for Calvin's generation, pretty much everybody, except for the one guy's dad, would be caught saying things that are totally inappropriate. My mother was the least racist person I knew and taught me about bigotry, but she still said things that could be considered ignorant or possibly racist, even though she would be appalled if someone implied that. Because she was of a different generation.

 

But she raised a kid who is taking this very seriously, and if we want the change to come, we just can't be militantly reactionary to every slight in the past. Not because it was right or excused as part of the way things were, but because there are a lot of people who are partially but not all in on the cause, and you don't want to lose them.

 

Sure, tributes to traitors and slaveholders and murderers must be destroyed. And wrongs that are occurring in real time (there are lots still after Floyd) and Calvin-like statements we hear now must be immediately condemned. But there is a line when it comes to the past, not because Uncle Joe needs to be honored for his comments, but because you will lose people. Right now I know Trumpers who are appalled at recent events. We need to keep these people's attention with current atrocities. I guarantee there are a number of people who, just based on the current Calvin thing, will no longer pay attention to what is happening in this regard. Pick your battles. This is too important.

[Halsey Hall]

I dislike the removal. 

 

My chances of having a statue there are getting slimmer and slimmer by the day.

[VivaBomboRivera!]

Try coming at this from another perspective - should any statue of Calvin Griffith have gone up in the first place? 

Consider:

• Keeping in mind that every soul can have at least a few redemptive moments (as Carew witnessed), on the whole Calvin appears to have been a pretty miserable human being, certainly not a role model for the youth that followed the ball club he owned
• Griffith's faux pas were not limited to a single 1978 engagement in Waseca; a scan of press clippings over the long years of his career will yield numerous quotes that reflect poorly on his character
• By the time the '80s rolled around, poor management of both his public persona as well the ball club had eroded community goodwill toward Griffith; "Sell, Calvin, sell!" was the frequent mantra of the day (does anybody remember the ticket buyout campaign?)  

When his life accomplishments are totaled, did Calvin Griffith contribute enough to the sport, the state and his contemporaries to merit the esteem that comes with a bronze memorial in a prominent place?  Probably not (YMMV).  He certainly made Carl Pohlad look like a savior for many years after the '84 sale.  We probably ought to have a talk about whether Carl really deserves a life-size hunk of metal, as well. 

 

There is no symbolism here, no history being lost - this is a right-sizing of how we memorialize a man whose shortcomings made him smaller than he could have been.  More importantly, it should be a clear message to all of us that everyone is welcome at the ball park.

[OldTimeTwinkie]

This doesn't matter one bit. We would have gotten a team here by 1969 at the very latest whether Calvin brought it here or whether someone else did. It wouldn't have been the same team but I reckon each of us here would be just a big of a fan of that team as we are of the Twins.

Maybe we would have got a franchise maybe we wouldn't have one. Minneapolis was compared to Omaha until we got the Twins so it was significant to have a major league franchise in the 60's . The impact it had on the perception on the area influenced business development in the area including other sports.

[Dantes929]

 

I am not imagining the finger pointing of self righteous idiots who think removing a statue solves any of the real problems in the United States.  

 

AS far as the "segregating" players issue, big deal.  1964.   That is the year I was born.  Segregation in the South was still alive.  What is more important about 1964 was that my favorite Twin player of all time started his career with the Twins that is still ongoing:  Tony Oliva. 

 

AS far as being "strongly opposed" to taking down Griffith's statue,  it is ridiculous to be offended by something that was said more than 40 years ago by a man who was born more than 100 years ago.  If your life is looked at in such a narrow manner, you would not pass muster either.

No one I know and none of those whose opinions I have read on here thinks removing a stature solves any of the real problems in the US so who are these self righteous idiots you refer to except those that think removing the statue is a step in the right direction no matter how small?    You seem to feel very strong about the subject.    I said in a separate post that I respect people can come to the conclusion of leaving the statue up as long as they have gone beyond "This is just another leftist agenda that I have to refute".   Maybe you did go beyond your first reaction  but capitalizing the words and throwing ad hominen in there tells me you probably didn't.   My life would not past muster but I neither expect nor want a monument.    I also don't think we are bound by the decisions of who to honor by people of a different time whether it be 10 years ago or 100 years ago.    Heck, someone might have wanted to erect a statue or name a school after Bill Cosby and changed his mind the next day when accusations came out.   This situation is more nuanced.    He did bring baseball to Minnesota but he also made a lot of money doing it.   He would have probably  let the Twins leave Minnesota if Pohlad hadn't stepped up. The public perception of him was strong enough and the apathy people had for racial injustice was enough for him to get the statue 10 years ago.   If he was a better person it might have even survived drunken quotes from 50 years ago with Carew's moderating words.    I never particularly liked him and had pretty much forgotten the Waseca quotes until reminded recently.       He is part of the history of the Twins.  Doesn't mean there has to be a statue for him.

[wavedog]

A couple of meandering points:  I am glad the team took the statue down before they were taken down by protesters possibly causing injury and further damage to the stadium.   The team put the statue up they can take it down. 

 

Statues are put up to honor folks that made significant contributions.  The Griffiths owned the Senators/Twins for over 70 years - Calvin brought the team to Minnesota and owned the team for approximately 30 years so on that side that is of some certain significance.    Personally I grew up following the team under his ownership and did not like him - he was cheap, in the Free Agency era all the good players left the team, and he made countless foolish comments, one being Waseca.  I was glad when he sold the team.    

 

He has been labeled as a racist - he kept the players segregated back in the early 60's until he was called on it.  The Waseca comment - Carew's comment in 1979 about not being a slave on his plantation and then an offset in Carew's latest statement saying that he did not believe Griffith was a racist from his personal experience which somewhat distorts the clear picture of the first 3 items or at least the 3rd one.    

 

I read the SI article on Mike Tucker who was the loudest voice in wanting to bring down Calvin's statue for racism.  In the article there was this interesting quote from Mike "  Tucker says. “The minority and people of color players the Twins have had, I’ve always been the biggest fans of them.”  Would you consider that comment racist or different side of the coin?   If Calvin Griffith had said "The White players the Twins had - they have always been my favorites"  might that have been a pretty big deal - worse than Waseca?    

 

I have seen comments that the removal of the statues is not about erasing history. In the comment from the Twins it states "We cannot remove Calvin Griffith from the history of the Minnesota Twins"  so there it is stated in writing - however that comment sure makes it sound like if they would if they could.   

 

As I said I have meandered on enough - I did not celebrate his statue going up or coming down.  I did not know Calvin personally, walk in his shoes or know his mind and heart.   The issue of how big a racist he was may be a little more complex,  clouded by his cheapness, countless stupid comments over time and unless we get a little more explanation on Carew's latest comments that contradict his comments from the late 70's.

[ashbury]

With absolutely no evidence to back it up, I suggest that Carl Pohlad's heirs wanted an eventual statue of him, and used Griffith as a stalking horse to get a tradition going of honoring ownership. There is no pressure from anywhere else to put up a statue of anybody but the on-field heroes of a team. Grudgingly, the team is admitting their mistake ten years later.

[Longdistancetwins]

 

With absolutely no evidence to back it up, I suggest that Carl Pohlad's heirs wanted an eventual statue of him, and used Griffith as a stalking horse to get a tradition going of honoring ownership. There is no pressure from anywhere else to put up a statue of anybody but the on-field heroes of a team. Grudgingly, the team is admitting their mistake ten years later.

Maybe "no evidence to back it up," but these were my thoughts, also.  Never thought of myself as a socialist or anything, but there's no reason to honor ownership at a ballpark unless such a person really made an outstanding contribution to society along the way.