Twins Remove Calvin Griffith Statue

[Bandit34]

I have no problem with removing statues as long as they are consistent. Be consistent with what you say and what you do.

[T_J]

I am not a Griffith fan. I don't care about his statue. But to pat the Pohlads on the back for their virtue is disingenuous. It's a magic trick of look over there while I hide something quickly. If you all think Carl didn't have a hand in redlining and other credit scams aimed at minorities and women your blind. His bank had to go to federal court over some of it.

 

We came out of isolation and the world turned bonkers. Crime is skyrocketing, folks are broke or heading that way and am stuck in disbelief about everything.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I am not a Griffith fan. I don't care about his statue. But to pat the Pohlads on the back for their virtue is disingenuous. It's a magic trick of look over there while I hide something quickly. If you all think Carl didn't have a hand in redlining and other credit scams aimed at minorities and women your blind. His bank had to go to federal court over some of it.

It's a well known fact around here that I have zero love for the Pohlad family. 

 

And until the past 3-4 weeks, I'd never really been given a reason to change that opinion.

 

But I also acknowledge that Carl's kids are not Carl himself and I think we can all agree ol' Carl was pretty rotten to the core.

 

But I've been legitimately impressed by the Pohlads and the Twins organization as a whole for the past month and I hope this new trend of me not despising my favorite team's ownership continues going forward.

[Craig Arko]

I won’t miss the SOB one bit.

[OldTimeTwinkie]

I will Reserve judgment on this taking down of the statue until I see how the twins historically recognize Calvin Griffiths Legacy because without Calvin the twins would not be here and if anyone is offended by going to a game because of Calvin Griffith those words will never change it came out of his mouth but the only reason the twins are here so that you can go to a game is because of calvin. so It will be very interesting to see if they totally ignore Calvin in the stadium or if they have a place of history and memorabilia recognizing Calvin.

[strumdatjaguar]

Before people forget Calvin’s statue, I wondered if he really was that short.

I’m not heartbroken over its removal, but the Twins should not ignore the history of the team in Washington. The Senators were mostly known for losing. Still, Bucky Harris, Goose Goslin, Sam Rice and “The Big Train” Walter Johnson won a suspenseful 1924 World Series with a 7th game rivaling anything in the Classic 1991 World Series. Check out the silent film news reel. The Griffith family, warts and all, was a big part of this history of our favorite baseball team - In DC and here. Somewhere, in a prominent display case in Target Field, the Senator’s history should be properly honored - mostly honoring it’s players, but a photograph of longtime owner Clark Griffith and his young son Calvin should be included.

[nicksaviking]

I am not imagining the finger pointing of self righteous idiots who think removing a statue solves any of the real problems in the United States.  

 

AS far as the "segregating" players issue, big deal.  1964.   That is the year I was born.  Segregation in the South was still alive.  What is more important about 1964 was that my favorite Twin player of all time started his career with the Twins that is still ongoing:  Tony Oliva. 

 

AS far as being "strongly opposed" to taking down Griffith's statue,  it is ridiculous to be offended by something that was said more than 40 years ago by a man who was born more than 100 years ago.  If your life is looked at in such a narrow manner, you would not pass muster either.

People were offended by what he said 40 years ago. That’s why every paper reported it. Everyone outside of the bigots knew it was awful even back then.

 

But I’m actually more offended that it appears there are still people who don’t think segregation is or was a big deal or a real world problem. I also can’t imagine that even Tony Olivia would suggest his birthday was more important than desegregation.

[DocBauer]

I "liked" some comments here and didn't "like" others but it doesn't mean I don't appreciate the opinions or those who made them. Once again, varying viewpoints presented in a logical manner by the audience that is TD.

 

And I almost hate to say anything more because no matter how well you attempt to write something, what you say can still be interpreted differently depending on the reader. But regardless, a few comments follow.

 

There is a classic axiom that goes something like: "Those we fail to learn from history's mistakes are damned to repeat them."

 

I don't know that the removal of this statue, or others, are necessarily right or wrong in any or every particular instance. I'm a pretty smart guy, but I never pretend to know everything. But perspective changes over time. These changes can be personal or public/social. Something that seemed OK or at least innocuous at one time might, over time and reflection, have a different meaning and perspective later. And each and everyone of us has said or done something silly/stupid/regrettable in our lives even though tbere was no ill intent. But as we have learned from our personal mistakes, so can society learn.

 

To this day, I am a proud, crank up the music and singalong rocker and country boy. I harbor no ill will to anyone based on anything other than maybe we just didn't get along. Period. But I am very glad NASCAR...big fan as a kid and still kinda like it...has banned the confederate flag. In my youth, I had a small confederate bandana tacked to my wall for a time because to me... and this has been widely discussed in recent weeks across media...somewhere along the line that flag meant "rebel", southern charm and rockabilly, Dukes of Hazzard and just having a good time. What and where it came from became distorted. The perception changed. Personal and public reflection is now asking how that happened, and has re-examined history, and decided, rightly so, that you simply re-invent something with such a negative origin, even if, again, there was no ill intent.

 

And I don't believe in ignoring history or attempting to re-write it. Nor do I believe in knee jerk reaction to simply remove everything and anything that some might find offensive. Then we are talking about censorship and fascism which is a whole different arguement and not what we are talking about here.

 

We are talking about learning from past, from history, and recognizing that certain public figures, certain public symbols, just really aren't appropriate for a society that wants and needs to grow TOGETHER. Should Calvin maybe have a plaque somewhere in Target Field as the owner and founder of the Twins as part of the team's history? If he doesn't already, perhaps he should. That's not my call, nor am I making a judgement on that. But people learn individually from mistakes and grow. So can/does society. HOPEFULLY.

 

There was no ill will made by the Twins when the statue was erected, I'm fully confident in that. They didn't make a mistake at the time. But growth and reflection years later allows for change and new perception and understanding. And that's a positive thing. There has been no condemnation to the Griffith family. No personal attacks on anyone. This is a reaction to recognition that we still, unfortunately, have issues in this country that we all wish had disappeared years ago.

 

Some may see it as merely a gesture. If so, hopefully it is a gesture with heart behind it that will be one more step up the staircase to full enlightenment.

[jimbo92107]

Was mean old Calivin Griffith any worse than the billionaire owners of these franchises today? I'm not just talking about blatant racism. I'm talking about professional sports franchises in general. Billionaire white man screws over a city to build a stadium, pays his workers table scraps, then reaps the big bucks for himself. Sound familiar? It should, because every football, baseball, hockey and basketball team is built the same way. 

 

It would be interesting to see how a worker's co-op sports team would compete against the rich owner model. The leagues would ban co-op teams, of course. Don't want the world to see how sharing the wealth is good for everybody. 

 

Meanwhile, drag away the statue of an old, long dead jerk that once owned the Twins. But let's not pretend that this solves anything. 

[Nine of twelve]

 

 ...without Calvin the twins would not be here...

This doesn't matter one bit. We would have gotten a team here by 1969 at the very latest whether Calvin brought it here or whether someone else did. It wouldn't have been the same team but I reckon each of us here would be just a big of a fan of that team as we are of the Twins.

[Nine of twelve]

I think everyone should read Rod Carew's full statement. I lifted this from the Pioneer Press web site.

 

Rod Carew’s full statement:

“I understand and respect the Minnesota Twins’ decision to remove the Calvin Griffith statue outside Target Field. While I’ve always supported the Twins’ decision to honor Calvin with a statue, I also remember how inappropriate and hurtful his comments were on that fateful day in Waseca. The Twins did what they felt they needed to do for the organization and for our community.

“While we cannot change history, perhaps we can learn from it.

“I first met Calvin Griffith in 1964 when he traveled to New York City to watch me work out at Yankee Stadium. Calvin and longtime Minnesota Twins scout Herb Stein must have liked what they saw as they signed me to a professional contract shortly thereafter. I can tell you when I got to the major leagues with the Twins in 1967, Calvin was my most ardent supporter. He told manager Sam Mele that I was the Twins’ everyday second baseman.  I saw no signs of racism whatsoever.

“In 1977, my MVP year, I made $170,000. When the season was over, Calvin called me into his office, thanked me for a great season, told me that I had made the team a lot of money and handed me a check for $100,000. You could have knocked me over. A racist wouldn’t have done that.

“There is no way I can apologize for what Calvin said in Waseca in 1978. His comments were irresponsible, wrong and hurtful. I recall my response at the time reflected my anger and disappointment.

“Now that more than four decades have passed, I look back on Calvin’s comments and our personal relationship with additional context and perspective. In my view, Calvin made a horrible mistake while giving that speech in 1978. I have no idea what happened that day, but who among us has not made a mistake? I know Calvin paid a heavy price for those comments and I believe his thoughts on race evolved over time.

“When he traded me prior to the 1979 season, Calvin told me he wanted me to be paid what I was worth. Later that year the Angels made me the highest paid player in baseball. A racist wouldn’t have done that.

“In 1991, the first person I called after I was told I had been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame was Calvin.

“I have long forgiven Cal for his insensitive comments and do not believe he was a racist. That was NOT my personal experience with Calvin Griffith — prior to or following that day in 1978.”

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Meanwhile, drag away the statue of an old, long dead jerk that once owned the Twins. But let's not pretend that this solves anything. 

It solves me walking into a stadium of a team I love without needing to have an awkward conversation with my children about why there's a statue of a man who thought people with their skin color were lazy and awful.

 

That solves something.

 

Do not let perfect be the enemy of good. This is a small gesture and certainly not one that fixes any large problems we have on a societal level.

 

But if you add together a bunch of small gestures, they become something more.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think everyone should read Rod Carew's full statement. I lifted this from the Pioneer Press web site.

 

Rod Carew’s full statement:

“I understand and respect the Minnesota Twins’ decision to remove the Calvin Griffith statue outside Target Field. While I’ve always supported the Twins’ decision to honor Calvin with a statue, I also remember how inappropriate and hurtful his comments were on that fateful day in Waseca. The Twins did what they felt they needed to do for the organization and for our community.

“While we cannot change history, perhaps we can learn from it.

“I first met Calvin Griffith in 1964 when he traveled to New York City to watch me work out at Yankee Stadium. Calvin and longtime Minnesota Twins scout Herb Stein must have liked what they saw as they signed me to a professional contract shortly thereafter. I can tell you when I got to the major leagues with the Twins in 1967, Calvin was my most ardent supporter. He told manager Sam Mele that I was the Twins’ everyday second baseman. I saw no signs of racism whatsoever.

“In 1977, my MVP year, I made $170,000. When the season was over, Calvin called me into his office, thanked me for a great season, told me that I had made the team a lot of money and handed me a check for $100,000. You could have knocked me over. A racist wouldn’t have done that.

“There is no way I can apologize for what Calvin said in Waseca in 1978. His comments were irresponsible, wrong and hurtful. I recall my response at the time reflected my anger and disappointment.

“Now that more than four decades have passed, I look back on Calvin’s comments and our personal relationship with additional context and perspective. In my view, Calvin made a horrible mistake while giving that speech in 1978. I have no idea what happened that day, but who among us has not made a mistake? I know Calvin paid a heavy price for those comments and I believe his thoughts on race evolved over time.

“When he traded me prior to the 1979 season, Calvin told me he wanted me to be paid what I was worth. Later that year the Angels made me the highest paid player in baseball. A racist wouldn’t have done that.

“In 1991, the first person I called after I was told I had been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame was Calvin.

“I have long forgiven Cal for his insensitive comments and do not believe he was a racist. That was NOT my personal experience with Calvin Griffith — prior to or following that day in 1978.”

Wow. Thanks for posting.

 

So I guess people are complicated. Maybe the statue should have never been raised, but when would that have been, 2009 or 2010, a much different time. Where do you draw the line? Griffith? Puckett? Hrbek? Do we really just want a bunch of Joe Mauer statues and no one else’s? The Griffith statue was going to come down eventually, whether it was today, five years ago, or later next month when an asteroid collides with Earth and wipes out all life. It served its purpose and it’s time to move on. Tip my cap to the fan who led this drive. One person can make a difference.

 

/rant

 

Edit: No, no asteroid is coming to wipe out life on Earth. That I know of.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Hosken Bombo Disco

[cardsfan]

Are there any rich owners that care for their fans as much as they do their own ego?

 

We here renamed German street names during WW1 to other names.

 

We are changing names of a street named after a slave trader and a school named after an obscure Confederate general. Yes, we should get rid of military base names named after traitors who left the union. Should Germany name bases after Hermann Goehring.

 

What I found interesting was we read about in our school's history books Northern carpetbaggers coming down south as evil people trying to get political offices. What we didn't read about was over a million slaves out of 5 million died within a few years afte the Civil War.

 

I want our Fathers to quit lying about our history. When 1 million slaves died shortly after the war that is a significant event in our history.

 

Or why Truman desegregated the army before the 1948 election with black WW2 soldiers being spit on and attacked. The Southerners would rather wash German POW's uniforms and not black soldiers uniforms during the war. I want the history of the church's involvement in racism and not forgotten.

 

I as a white guy was proud to support the Ferguson, MO protesters against the white power structure against many whites I know. They should have hog whipped the power structure who I'm sure some were good family man.

[Tom Froemming]

 

I think everyone should read Rod Carew's full statement. I lifted this from the Pioneer Press web site. ...

Here's a link to that article by John Shipley, for anybody interested in reading the whole thing.

[Aichiman]

I don't like it.  It's a knee-jerk reaction to placate the rage of the times.  So throw Calvin under the bus.  The guy's dead, so he doesn't know.  Maybe it'll upset some of his relatives, but who cares about them.  It's not really that big a deal. So, enough about that; I'd like to talk about something else.

Throughout the years, I've been aware of a liberal leftest bent in this publication. I don't like it, but I put up with it, because I love baseball and I love the Twins.  But I'm getting pretty sick of the constant PC push by some (not all) of the main writers on this website.   So, I'm going to take this opportunity to push back with a few simple questions:  How many of the Twins Daily writers are black?  How many women write for you?  Of all the articles and blogs you publish, what the percentage are written by white males?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't like it.  It's a knee-jerk reaction to placate the rage of the times.  So throw Calvin under the bus.  The guy's dead, so he doesn't know.  Maybe it'll upset some of his relatives, but who cares about them.  It's not really that big a deal. So, enough about that; I'd like to talk about something else.

Throughout the years, I've been aware of a liberal leftest bent in this publication. I don't like it, but I put up with it, because I love baseball and I love the Twins.  But I'm getting pretty sick of the constant PC push by some (not all) of the main writers on this website.  So, I'm going to take this opportunity to push back with a few simple questions:  How many of the Twins Daily writers are black?  How many women write for you?  Of all the articles and blogs you publish, what the percentage are written by white males?

My children are black. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my child asked who that was and pointed at the Griffith statue.

 

I was conflicted. I deferred the conversation to another day based on her age. 

Now, I never need to have the conversation with her about that statue. 

 

Step outside yourself for a moment; stop accusing people of various things, and just realize that this move literally brought some of us to tears because it's just one less thing I have to explain to my black children.

Now imagine *actually* being black. Even raising black children, I can't even do it. Their experience is so outside my own that I can't even begin to imagine their perspective and world view.

 

These things really matter to people and they damned well should, as it's just one more indication American society is tearing down more walls of systemic racism.

All of this is good.

[twinstalker]

If you're middle aged, Calvin was racist like our fathers were racist. More than anything, he was ignorant. Certainly his quote about Carew was anything BUT racist, you really have to reach there. I've called a black person an idiot. Is that racist? No, he was being an idiot, and I call all idiots idiot, and usually they are white.  Calvin would have called any white player who was top five in the MLB a fool there.

 

I think I'm pretty sensitive to the situation going on, but I'm uncomfortable removing the statue of our club's founder simply because he was ignorant like most everybody of his generation. Let's save our outrage for those doing overt harm, or we will tire out before anything of substance gets accomplished.  And yes, I understand the insipidness of latent racism.

[Squirrel]

If you're middle aged, Calvin was racist like our fathers were racist. More than anything, he was ignorant. Certainly his quote about Carew was anything BUT racist, you really have to reach there. I've called a black person an idiot. Is that racist? No, he was being an idiot, and I call all idiots idiot, and usually they are white.  Calvin would have called any white player who was top five in the MLB a fool there.

 

I think I'm pretty sensitive to the situation going on, but I'm uncomfortable removing the statue of our club's founder simply because he was ignorant like most everybody of his generation. Let's save our outrage for those doing overt harm, or we will tire out before anything of substance gets accomplished.  And yes, I understand the insipidness of latent racism.

Removing a statue does not remove the history. I’m fine with removing the honor. It doesn’t change what’s already been. I think it’s also okay to stop saying, ‘Well, that’s just the way it was then,’ and acknowledge the behavior as wrong in order to correct behavior today, imo..

[In My La Z boy]

 

Removing a statue does not remove the history. I’m fine with removing the honor. It doesn’t change what’s already been. I think it’s also okay to stop saying, ‘Well, that’s just the way it was then,’ and acknowledge the behavior as wrong in order to correct behavior today, imo..

Removing a statue does not remove history yes, but you've hit the nail on the head when it comes to the militant radical left in this Country. They do indeed intend to remove history and re-write it to fit their current agenda. No Country on earth has done more to make amends for its historical sin than the USA. The militant left will never let us off the hook, and must re-write history because the political racist force in this Country back in the day were all democrats. When do all the Robert C Byrd statues come down?

Maybe someone should have asked Rod about the statue? If he wanted it down, take it down. Mr. Carew was my childhood hero, and I'll take his word for it on Calvin.

[ashbury]

If you're middle aged, Calvin was racist like our fathers were racist.

Speak for yourself. My (mainstream Republican) dad would never have uttered stuff like Calvin said in Waseca. Don't normalize racism.

[Squirrel]

 

Removing a statue does not remove history yes, but you've hit the nail on the head when it comes to the militant radical left in this Country. They do indeed intend to remove history and re-write it to fit their current agenda. No Country on earth has done more to make amends for its historical sin than the USA. The militant left will never let us off the hook, and must re-write history because the political racist force in this Country back in the day were all democrats. When do all the Robert C Byrd statues come down?

Maybe someone should have asked Rod about the statue? If he wanted it down, take it down. Mr. Carew was my childhood hero, and I'll take his word for it on Calvin.

 

Okay ... I disagree with much of what you wrote ... but we are not getting into a broad political discussion here ... we are talking about one statue at Target Field. It doesn't change the history. No one is trying to rewrite history, but as many here have commented ... they didn't know about Griffith's comments, that it shed new light onto the situation. 

[Nine of twelve]

 

The militant left will never let us off the hook, and must re-write history

This has been said many times already, but apparently it has to be said again:

NO ONE IS REWRITING HISTORY.

 

History can not be rewritten. What happened happened and what did not happen did not happen. Erecting a statue can not change history. Removing a statue can not change history.

 

In my view the people whom you refer to as "the militant left" are attempting to reveal and understand history, not rewrite it. And based on what is learned action can be taken as indicated.

 

[Squirrel]

 

Speak for yourself. My (mainstream Republican) dad would never have uttered stuff like Calvin said in Waseca. Don't normalize racism.

 

Thank you. My Dad had said a few things through the years that were cringe worthy, and was always corrected for it, but never anything like that. Never. And given the articles and comments made, at that time, it showed that it was even that bad then, and even more so now.

[R B TATE]

Calvin Griffith hired more African-Americans as major league baseball players than this current management would even think of. Actually, current management of the Twins do not seem to want more than one at a time on the team. Perhaps they are virtue signaling to cover their own racism.

[DannySD]

Good. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Calvin Griffith hired more African-Americans as major league baseball players than this current management would even think of. Actually, current management of the Twins do not seem to want more than one at a time on the team. Perhaps they are virtue signaling to cover their own racism.

Black Americans have stopped playing baseball and going from memory, now occupy MLB rosters at about 1/3rd the numbers from 40 years ago.

 

Surely you realize that is not the front office’s fault and a much larger Major League Baseball problem.

[FritzDahmus]

Let's start examining Herbie, how about Harmon.....why not?? Washington and Jefferson have become fair game....

 

If the Twins think the symbolic message of tearing down a statue is espousing equality for all, they don't have a clue. The Twins have been accused of being a very white organization even through the Polhad's tenure. Look at the minor leagues and look in the stands.

 

They are kissing ass and succumbing to the prevailing political pressure. All of corporate America is doing so.........it's good business.....that's all.

[Bomba2026]

If CG made these comments 42 years ago why did the Twins honor him with a statue 10 yrs ago? I really was not impressed by the Twins this week. First they make a big announcement about how much $ they are giving to certain "charties" which front political parties, and now about the statue, with more to come....I don't think highly of businesses that give money to be "seen" or feel important. Do things in life that are right, when situations happen, not when it makes You feel better. As a fan it appears that MN treats our players well. I don't choose my favs based on race, it's about character and talent on and off the field. I hope our players want to be in MN as much as we want them here?

[Squirrel]

 

If CG made these comments 42 years ago why did the Twins honor him with a statue 10 yrs ago? I really was not impressed by the Twins this week. First they make a big announcement about how much $ they are giving to certain "charties" which front political parties, and now about the statue, with more to come....I don't think highly of businesses that give money to be "seen" or feel important. Do things in life that are right, when situations happen, not when it makes You feel better. As a fan it appears that MN treats our players well. I don't choose my favs based on race, it's about character and talent on and off the field. I hope our players want to be in MN as much as we want them here?

 

They may have made some of those moves to 'be seen' ... however ... if so, I still think they were the absolute right things to do and support them for it. Removing the statue was a step in the right direction, imo. Agreed ... shouldn't have put it up to begin with, but times change.