Twins remove Calvin Griffith statue

[notoriousgod71]

because TEAR EVERYTHING DOWN!

[gunnarthor]

This article from 2015 has a few of the concerns over Griffith's racism - including segregating players in the 1960s and some pretty ugly comments in 1978 that became a big story at the time.

 

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d7bbkq/why-the-twins-should-tear-down-their-statue-of-a-former-owner?fbclid=IwAR1csvbt1kH1PVgtGCbyKQg6IvxPJ7F2XoV54ZB8F22WEH5myykxNU8m1vQ

 

 

[dex8425]

This one does too.

 

 https://www.startribune.com/recalling-ex-twins-owner-griffith-s-bigoted-outburst/257189521/

[dex8425]

I was born in the 90's and had heard Griffith "was a racist" but hadn't heard about those comments until today, to be honest. That's pretty bad. It may have been poor judgment to erect a statue of him in front of Target Field. 

[Vanimal46]

[Vanimal46]

Removing these statues and symbols is a meaningful step forward. I didn’t know about his blatantly racist comments in the past, but now I learned thanks to the removal of his statue.

[TouchEmAllGuy]

Thanks for sharing guys/gals. I also had not seen that. Seems like a good move to remove statue. Room for Joe?!

[AceWrigley]

The statue was erected to commemorate what Calvin Griffith did for baseball in Minnesota, not for his character or personal beliefs. I find it disconcerting that we feel the need to virtue cleanse everything today. People aren't perfect. Should we not recognize our father's on Father's Day because they weren't/aren't the perfect father?

[The Wise One]

Yet as racist as Calvin could be, under his leadership the Senators integrated, Joe Cambria signed them a lot of players. Words versus actions.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Given the comments and actions of Baldelli, the front office, and even the Pohlads over the past three weeks, I will be giving the Twins money as soon as baseball resumes and I will be just a little bit happier walking through those turnstiles with my children as soon as we’re allowed to attend games again.

 

Small gestures can mean a lot.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yet as racist as Calvin could be, under his leadership the Senators integrated, Joe Cambria signed them a lot of players. Words versus actions.

Both matter.

[Tom Froemming]

It was foolish of the Twins to erect a Calvin Griffith statue in the first place. They should have known better in 2010, but correcting a mistake is always better than being stubborn about it.

[wavedog]

I thought Rod Carew who knew Calvin better than most folks had a nice summation on the subject:
 
"I understand and respect the Minnesota Twins decision to remove the Calvin Griffith statue outside Target Field," Carew said in a statement released by the team. "While I've always supported the Twins decision to honor Calvin with a statue, I also remember how inappropriate and hurtful his comments were on that fateful day in Waseca. The Twins did what they felt they needed to do for the organization and for our community. While we cannot change history, perhaps we can learn from it."

[gunnarthor]

 

The statue was erected to commemorate what Calvin Griffith did for baseball in Minnesota, not for his character or personal beliefs. I find it disconcerting that we feel the need to virtue cleanse everything today. People aren't perfect. Should we not recognize our father's on Father's Day because they weren't/aren't the perfect father?

Actually, I feel like his character and beliefs affected baseball in MN. He kept his players segregated well into the 60s. He said such racist things that Rod Carew would never play for him again. Imagine if current ownership had said something so vile that Joe Mauer demanded a trade out of Minnesota. That's what Griffith did for MN baseball.

[AceWrigley]

 

Actually, I feel like his character and beliefs affected baseball in MN. He kept his players segregated well into the 60s. He said such racist things that Rod Carew would never play for him again. Imagine if current ownership had said something so vile that Joe Mauer demanded a trade out of Minnesota. That's what Griffith did for MN baseball.

You are not wrong. I'm not condoning Mr. Griffith's words or actions. He wasn't alone in his behavior in the 50's and 60's. Heck, even the sport writers showed their prejudice in articles about certain players. I just find it curious that with everything that was known even then, the statue was important enough to erect 10 years ago but now is deemed inappropriate. Maybe the statue should never have been installed. I worked at the Met in the late 60's early 70's and met Calvin Griffith a few times. I always thought he was kind of a toad, but then kids think that about most adults, don't they?

 

My favorite player early on after moving to Minneapolis from Chicago was Vic Power. My dad claimed that the first words I ever spoke that anybody could understand was "amon oonie" which meant "come on Ernie" for Ernie Banks. Vic Power was a great defensive 1B. As a firstbaseman I wanted a Vic Power glove, but had to settle for the Earl Torgeson model. Earl Torgeson? Thanks mom.

[puckstopper1]

 

I thought Rod Carew who knew Calvin better than most folks had a nice summation on the subject:
 
"I understand and respect the Minnesota Twins decision to remove the Calvin Griffith statue outside Target Field," Carew said in a statement released by the team. "While I've always supported the Twins decision to honor Calvin with a statue, I also remember how inappropriate and hurtful his comments were on that fateful day in Waseca. The Twins did what they felt they needed to do for the organization and for our community. While we cannot change history, perhaps we can learn from it."

 

This is Carew being the class act that he has always been...

[D. Hocking]

In some ways the whole erecting a statue is kind of an odd thing in general.  Often they are put up by the people in power who want to make sure their version of events are what are placed front and center  There is a reason why statues are often toppled when there is a power shift or change in view of the majority

 

They can still acknowledge him if they want with a museum type poster board on one of the walls inside the ball field.  They can then acknowledge his accomplishments and place in Twins history but also share some of these comments and why the Twins do not stand behind these statement.

[SkyBlueWaters]

So much of the news is divisive lately. I feel like the only person winning is Vladimir Putin, who must watch the raging, violence and inflamed rhetoric with glee. I find myself turning the radio news on then off soon after.

 

With the pandemic, the president's rhetoric, and the violence in all forms, I don't feel like there are many winners.

 

But reading Rod Carew's quotes about Griffith (Reusse's column in the Strib today is good), and of his forgiveness, and what he felt about Griffith, was the closest thing to uplifting I've read in a while.

 

I liked Carew already, of course. But he's an even bigger man for me now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

So much of the news is divisive lately. I feel like the only person winning is Vladimir Putin, who must watch the raging, violence and inflamed rhetoric with glee. I find myself turning the radio news on then off soon after.

 

With the pandemic, the president's rhetoric, and the violence in all forms, I don't feel like there are many winners.

 

But reading Rod Carew's quotes about Griffith (Reusse's column in the Strib today is good), and of his forgiveness, and what he felt about Griffith, was the closest thing to uplifting I've read in a while.

 

I liked Carew already, of course. But he's an even bigger man for me now.

Right? I don’t use the term “class act”, well, basically ever... but it really applies to Carew in this situation.

 

Way to stay above the fray. My respect for him couldn’t be higher.

[h2oface]

Griffith's statements were only a "mistake" in that he said what he always felt outloud for all to hear, and truly exposed who he always was and the dogma that he came to infect his life with and spread it to others around him, if he could. It was not a "one time thing". 

 

Rod Carew exemplifies a grace and wisdom that is truly inspiring. For me, the fact that he can teach us that grace and practice forgiveness and understanding regardless, is a lesson that I can aways take a refresher course in. 

[Nine of twelve]

 

Griffith's statements were only a "mistake" in that he said what he always felt outloud for all to hear, and truly exposed who he always was and the dogma that he came to infect his life with and spread it to others around him, if he could. It was not a "one time thing". 

 

Rod Carew exemplifies a grace and wisdom that is truly inspiring. For me, the fact that he can teach us that grace and practice forgiveness and understanding regardless, is a lesson that I can aways take a refresher course in. 

I think it's likely you are right but we don't know that for sure. I have heard the explanation that even though he didn't hold those beliefs he was making a very poor attempt at humor, saying what he thought would entertain the audience. It would be analogous to an actor playing a role of a character who is unlike the actor personally. I don't advocate for or against that point of view because I have no way to know, but this would be a way to explain how Carew viewed the man and how Carew was able to forgive him.

[h2oface]

 

I think it's likely you are right but we don't know that for sure. I have heard the explanation that even though he didn't hold those beliefs he was making a very poor attempt at humor, saying what he thought would entertain the audience. It would be analogous to an actor playing a role of a character who is unlike the actor personally. I don't advocate for or against that point of view because I have no way to know, but this would be a way to explain how Carew viewed the man and how Carew was able to forgive him.

 

Sure. I know someone that everytime he says something or tweets something that exposes his true nature..... it is always a day later called a joke. I'm not buying that at all, in either case. 

 

And not at all like the actor analogy. There is no mystery that the actor is acting. And he doesn't have to ever explain that isn't the real person.

[Nine of twelve]

 

Sure. I know someone that everytime he says something or tweets something that exposes his true nature..... it is always a day later called a joke. I'm not buying that at all, in either case. 

 

And not at all like the actor analogy. There is no mystery that the actor is acting. And he doesn't have to ever explain that isn't the real person.

I agree that the actor analogy was off the mark. Maybe more like a comedy writer who is paid to write jokes for a certain audience. The writer can write the jokes but that doesn't mean he or she buys into the sentiment of the jokes in his or her personal life.

 

My understanding of the story is that the remarks were intended as jokes. Whether that story is true or not I have no way of knowing. Again, I'm just the messenger relaying something I read or heard once. I certainly am not trying to find an excuse to justify what was said.

[Cast of Thousands]

Pohlad's were glad to do it, I'm sure.  Twins history will now be even more about them than Cal.  I doubt the Pohlad's needed much urging to get the job done.

[VivaBomboRivera!]

Cross-posting comment in Seth Stohs article

[rghrbek]

Being from Waseca, we did not ever want to be known for Calvin's comments.  Terrible and reprehensible.  Yet every few years we are reminded about this.

 

I agree with all that Rodney, who was my favorite player as a kid, said and still shows class even though those statements crushed him from a man he respected, Just shows his character.

 

I don't have to make high level decisions like the Twins made.  But I think their decision was the correct one to make.  I am proud of them for that, despite some of the positives that Calvin might have done.

Win Twins.

 

 

 

[the_brute_squad]

We get a chance to hear from one of the integral people from 1978.

 

STATEMENT FROM ROD CAREW ON CALVIN GRIFFITH

MINNEAPOLIS-ST.  PAUL,  MN–

“I understand and respect the Minnesota Twins decision to remove  the  Calvin  Griffith  statue  outside  Target Field. While I’ve always supported the Twins decision to honor Calvin with a statue, I also remember how inappropriate and hurtful his comments were  on  that  fateful  day  in  Waseca.  The  Twins  did  what  they  felt  they  needed  to  do  for  the organization and for our community.“While we cannot change history, perhaps we can learn from it.“I first met Calvin Griffith in 1964 when he travelled to New York City to watch me workout at Yankee Stadium. Calvin and longtime Minnesota Twins scout Herb Stein must have liked what they saw as they signed me to a professional contract shortly thereafter. I can tell you when I got to the major leagues with the Twins in 1967, Calvin was my most ardent supporter. He told manager Sam Mele that I was the Twins everyday second baseman. I saw no signs of racism whatsoever.“In 1977, my MVP year, I made $170,000. When the season was over, Calvin called me into his office, thanked me for a great season, told me that I had made the team a lot of money and handed me a check for $100,000. You could have knocked me over. A racist wouldn't have done that.“There is no way I can apologize for what Calvin said in Waseca in 1978. His comments were irresponsible,   wrong   and   hurtful.   I   recall   my   response   at   the   time   reflected  my   anger   and disappointment.“Now that more than four decades have passed, I look back on Calvin’s comments and our personal  relationship  with  additional  context  and  perspective.  In  my  view,  Calvin  made  a  horrible mistake while giving that speech in 1978. I have no idea what happened that day, but who among us has  not  made  a  mistake?  I  know  Calvin  paid  a  heavy  price  for  those  comments  and  I  believe  his thoughts on race evolved over time.“When he traded me prior to the 1979 season, Calvin told me he wanted me to be paid what I was worth. Later that year the Angels made me the highest paid player in baseball. A racist wouldn't have done that.“In 1991, the first person I called after I was told I had been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame was Calvin.“I have long forgiven Cal for his insensitive comments and do not believe he was a racist. That was NOT my personal experience with Calvin Griffith –prior to or following that day in 1978.”

[R B TATE]

 

Yet as racist as Calvin could be, under his leadership the Senators integrated, Joe Cambria signed them a lot of players. Words versus actions.

Exactly...He made some drunken, racist comments, but hired many African-American players. Current ownnership/management virtue signals to hide their silent racism, and failure to sign Black American players.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Exactly...He made some drunken, racist comments, but hired many African-American players. Current ownnership/management virtue signals to hide their silent racism, and failure to sign Black American players.

This is the second time you've brought this up and I'll just copy and paste my last reply that you ignored.

 

Cut it out with this line of conversation. Literally *all of baseball* is less black (in the sense of Black Americans) and this is not the fault of the Twins front office, it's a baseball problem.

 

My last post copied:

 

"Black Americans have stopped playing baseball and going from memory, now occupy MLB rosters at about 1/3rd the numbers of 40 years ago.

 

Surely you realize that is not the front office’s fault and a much larger Major League Baseball problem."

[Sssuperdave]

 

Exactly...He made some drunken, racist comments, but hired many African-American players. Current ownnership/management virtue signals to hide their silent racism, and failure to sign Black American players.

 

I think having one's statue removed is a fair consequence for making drunken, racist comments. How many statues are there outside of Target Field? Maybe 6? It's not that hard to find six people who made enormous contributions to the Twins who were able to avoid making drunken, racist comments.